Am I the only one who does NOT want Welker back?

[JackBauer]

I like WW but we need a physical, athletic presence on the outside. I can see if they decide not to re-sign him and use those cap dollars on such a commodity instead. Otherwise, just letting him go is indefensible.

 

[patman12]

I love Welker and want him signed, as long as it's not for 10-11 million per season.

 

[Ring 6]

I'd love to have Welker back, just not at the $9-10M that he's expected to want.

Why do you really care about the money? What would you give him, and what do you really expect to do with the meager difference?

 

[Sciz]

Seriously who could dispute that??? There were many games this season where we couldn't find Lloyd with a search warrant. What would be his cap if let go? I am sure we can find somebody in the Draft who can do what he does.

Lloyd would cost more to cut than to keep. They can gain $3M by cutting him in 2014.

 

[Rob0729]

I never said Lloyd is useless. But if I had to let one loose.... Lloyd would be the one. Sorry... WW has been more valuable and productive than Lloyd.

But you are comparing apples and oranges. Lloyd is a #2 WR who gets paid relatively little. Welker is a #1 who will likely get paid as a top WR in the league. It isn't an either or situation. You cut Lloyd and you gotta spend the same amount or more to get a WR of equal value to be the #2 WR. You couldn't use the money on Welker and even cover more than a portion of his salary nevermind get a new #2 WR.

 

[Rob0729]

Actually Welker did with 72 and Gronk had 45 in 11 games, so the argument could be that had Gronk not missed the 5 games Lloyd would have had less than 50 first downs as some would have went to Gronk.

You are right. I missed Welker's numbers, but 50 1st downs by a #2 WR and usually #3 option is pretty good.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I'd get rid of Lloyd before I get rid of Welker. At least WW can take a hit, and more importantly get substantial YAC.

Lloyd is an imbecile who collapses as soon as he catches the ball. He was also brought in to stretch the field, but I can count the number of deep catches he's made, on one hand.

Ok, but Lloyd does catch the ball? YAC is nice but the most important thing is to move the chains, Lloyd did that 50 times this season and we got him for cheap.

The problem is that you expect him to be Randy Moss 2.0.

 

[Rob0729]

Seriously who could dispute that??? There were many games this season where we couldn't find Lloyd with a search warrant. What would be his cap if let go? I am sure we can find somebody in the Draft who can do what he does.

Except Welker and Lloyd are not the same roles. Lloyd is a #2 and Welker is a #1. Lloyd has been the Pats best #2 WR since Welker stopped being the #2 WR since Moss left.

Cutting Llloyd would only save the Pats $500k this year and you couldn't even get a decent #3 for that money and Lloyd is a pretty good #2 WR.

And as for Lloyd's production being replaced in the draft, Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate, and Taylor Price says hello.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'd get rid of Lloyd before I get rid of Welker. At least WW can take a hit, and more importantly get substantial YAC.

Lloyd is an imbecile who collapses as soon as he catches the ball. He was also brought in to stretch the field, but I can count the number of deep catches he's made, on one hand.

Lloyd had a good year for the Pats and makes less than half of Welker's salary. Also, anyone who has ever seen him play in the NFL knows that he is not a deep threat in the traditional sense (he's not particularly fast). What he is is a player who can punish opposing defenses outside of the hashmarks. For the first time since Moss left, we have an outside-the-hashes WR who can't be neutralized by putting your #3 cornerback on him. And who can stay on the field for more than 3 games at a time (sorry Edelman).

Anyone who is seriously discussing cutting Lloyd is doesn't really understand either of A) football and B) the salary cap. Even if he hadn't performed well this year (which he did), cutting him would still be pretty much prohibitive in terms of dead cap.

 

[Deus Irae]

Am I the only one who does NOT want Welker back?

Sadly, no. In any group of sufficient size, you can always find people who act foolishly after things go badly, so there will be people foolish enough not to want Welker back.

 

[YearbookCurfew]

I'd like to see Welker back. He's TFB's main target and until we have a replacement I say we keep him.

 

[Rob0729]

Ok, but Lloyd does catch the ball? YAC is nice but the most important thing is to move the chains, Lloyd did that 50 times this season and we got him for cheap.

The problem is that you expect him to be Randy Moss 2.0.

Yes, Lloyd is a victim of expectations and the fact that the Pats forced too many balls to him early trying to get him acclimated to the offense. If say Edelman had Lloyd's numbers, people would be saying to let Welker go and make Edelman Welker 2.0.

Overall, Lloyd had a solid year and he was breaking out towards the end of the year.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Why do you really care about the money? What would you give him, and what do you really expect to do with the meager difference?

That method of thinking is what gives you a roster stocked with players at the top end who are $1-2M overpaid. In aggregate, it either kills your depth or makes you less able to afford further top-tier talent. Or both.

The Patriots assign a value to a player, and they refuse to go over that value. It's a philosophy that's served them pretty well. Even when it results in a player leaving from time to time when it may not have been strictly necessary. That's the price of maintaining a big-picture perspective.

That said, I definitely want Welker back. But if the price is too high, then the price is too high. As much as it would worry me to see the offense's ability to move the chains without him in it, the fact is that there's a lot of young talent that will need to be re-signed or replaced very soon, and that's going to create some hard decisions that nobody will like seeing the results of.

Would my perspective be different if he didn't have a couple of bad drops on Sunday? Probably a little, yeah. But the playoff drops have become pretty difficult to ignore. To his credit, I'm sure that a lot of it is because, by January, he's pretty badly beat up from yet another year of catching 120 balls and absorbing the subsequent hits. But regardless of the reason, it's happened enough times that it should be a part of the conversation (albeit a smaller part than most people who harp on it think).

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes, Lloyd is a victim of expectations and the fact that the Pats forced too many balls to him early trying to get him acclimated to the offense. If say Edelman had Lloyd's numbers, people would be saying to let Welker go and make Edelman Welker 2.0.

Overall, Lloyd had a solid year and he was breaking out towards the end of the year.

Lloyd had a fine year. We aren't talking about Donald Hayes here...

He finished w/ a career high in catch/target %, 2nd highest catch total, 3rd highest (2nd highest w/ one team) in yardage and his YAC and TDs were within his career averages. He did fine.

The only beefs were his YAC in this offense, sometimes disappeared in games and took a bit of time to get on track with TB. in 05 Deion Branch has a 3.1 YAC and LLoyd was 2.6...not that far off for the position.

I have zero issue with what Lloyd gave the team overall.

 

[Deus Irae]

That method of thinking is what gives you a roster stocked with players at the top end who are $1-2M overpaid. In aggregate, it either kills your depth or makes you less able to afford further top-tier talent. Or both.

The Patriots assign a value to a player, and they refuse to go over that value. It's a philosophy that's served them pretty well. Even when it results in a player leaving from time to time when it may not have been strictly necessary. That's the price of maintaining a big-picture perspective.

That said, I definitely want Welker back. But if the price is too high, then the price is too high. As much as it would worry me to see the offense's ability to move the chains without him in it, the fact is that there's a lot of young talent that will need to be re-signed or replaced very soon, and that's going to create some hard decisions that nobody will like seeing the results of.

They paid some extra to bring Mankins back, and look how that worked out.

Mankins coming back has worked out fine. He's the team's best offensive lineman.

As for Welker, nobody's brought up the other alternative, in terms of lowering cap hit, which is to sign him for a [highlight]longer[/highlight] contract in order to push some of the money into later, unguaranteed, years. This team is very cap savvy. If they want to keep Welker and still have money for other moves, they can manipulate the numbers enough to do it. Also, just winning on the Fanene claim would more than offset any Welker money uptick.

 

[Sicilian]

Why do you really care about the money? What would you give him, and what do you really expect to do with the meager difference?

Not sure I agree with your thinking here. It's not about what would we do with the meager difference (let's say it's a million here). It's about an organizational philosophy that you set a value for a player, and outside of rare circumstances you try not to exceed that value. One million may not make a difference anywhere, but if you "overspend" by a million on ten different guys, you now are wasting enough space to sign or extend an impact player somewhere else.

My thought is, Welker is the best at what he does: Slot receiver, short to intermediate routes. He creates mismatches with most players in the passing game, with the exception of the very best and most versatile corners. We don't have anyone that can do exactly what he does, but we DO have players that can operate in the same area of the field (Hernandez, Edelman, running backs) and do it at a high level. If Welker's money is used to grab a good outside receiver, I feel like the new WR + Hern/Edel/RB can be just as effective if not better than Welker and a mid level outside guy.

Long story short, I don't WANT to see Welker leave, I just think if he wants top WR money there's potentially plenty of ways we could spend that money that wouldn't hurt our offense at all.

 

[ivanvamp]

Why do you really care about the money? What would you give him, and what do you really expect to do with the meager difference?

Why should any of us care about the money? This isn't MLB. The Pats operate under a hard salary cap. Every extra dollar that goes to one player removes that dollar from the overall pool. It is a zero sum game.

I know you know all this, so why would you ask that question?

 

[DocHoliday]

I only don't want Welker back if keeping him means we won't draft a tall WR.

The team needs a jump ball threat/deep threat to beat teams that can takeaway the short passing game and stop the run in their nickel.

I don't think we'll bring in a FA - really feel we'll draft a guy who will see some playing time in 2013.

Because this guy is a draftee we can afford him and Welker.

WW will be back, but for this team to be able to score in those top 5 defenses it needs to spread the ball out a little more and make Wes 'just another receiver'.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

We can afford to let welker go if we sign bowes, wallace or jennings.

 

[jmt57]

I am having difficulty following the logic of 'I don't want Welker, he's not worth a yet to be determined unknown price' when that is immediately followed by 'replace him with (fill in name of another WR)' regardless of what that new player's yet to be determined unknown price is.

Seems to be a hypocritical double standard.



To answer the OP's original question, it all depends on the terms of the contract; it is not a simple, absolute yes-or-no question and answer.