A little early, but: should the Patriots try to re-sign Wes Welker?

[Double TE]

This argument has been made and debunked by the actual results on the field for several years. Hernandez plays all over and Gronk operates from a traditional TE spot, Welker opens up everyone, the stupidest thing they could ever do is allow him to walk. If Belichick actually believed he needed an outside reciever and Welker wasn't needed with Hernandez and Gronk signed he would have paid reggie wayne or another WR lasst offseason instead of tagging Welker

All this over a slot receiver?

 

[BananaRepublican]

This argument has been made and debunked by the actual results on the field for several years.

I know what the results have been but I also watched Wes get virtually benched during the first two games of the season. I don't think it's inclusive to overlook that.

That is the fly in the ointment.

I prefer my flies in ointment instead of ruining good soup. Besides, the Soup Nazi said that's the way it is.

 

[patsfaninpa]

All this over a slot receiver?

I prefer to judge players on their production, not where they line up.

2011 122 rec 1569 yd and 9 td
2012 118 rec 1354 yd and 6 td

Now, go find an outside receiver who has caught nearly 3000 yards worth of passes in two years. 2923 to be exact. Pay the man. Straight cash.

 

[PatsFan2]

Every week it seems like their is a 80 page thread on Wes Welker *sighs* I'll just add whenever they are on the Field at the same time Wes and Gronk that is though not many times this past season unfortunately...Wes and Gronk are Brady's two first reads. On many occasions when playing in tandem Brady have the pick of his choice high low...low high that is Welker or Gronk. Ofcourse Wes has been more durable I wont add Hernandez because the obove mentions gets open alot quicker than him. What's my point? Wes Welker in not the best thing since slice bread yes I said it. And I know he is one of the quickest players in the game but he's not the fastest. What if we got a guy like Larry Fitzgerald wouldn't he bring a different skill set to our Offense? I could live with either Greg Jennings or Dwayne Bowe if either are available. If Wes decides to leave I think the Patriots have a Plan B we might have to pony up some extra cash but I don't think it would be the end of the world.

 

[patfanken]

This argument has been made and debunked by the actual results on the field for several years. Hernandez plays all over and Gronk operates from a traditional TE spot, Welker opens up everyone, the stupidest thing they could ever do is allow him to walk. If Belichick actually believed he needed an outside reciever and Welker wasn't needed with Hernandez and Gronk signed he would have paid reggie wayne or another WR lasst offseason instead of tagging Welker

Ivan, didn't we hear the same argument after Moss was traded. "how is this offense going to survive without Moss creating that deep threat and double coverage on him". Everyone was asking how Welker was going to get free without the concentration of the defense going on Moss. Remember this was fairly early in the season, when no one really had any idea what Gronk OR Hernandez were to become, by the end of the season, and into 2011.

The point is, there is no question that Welker is currently the "go to" guy in the offense, especially since it has only had one of the 2 big TE's all season. But in your post, you intimate that if Welker isn't there this offense will suddenly stop being effective. Common sense and past history has shown us nothing could be further from the truth.

Now before you start going nuts thinking this post is somehow insulting your boy, nothing could be further from the truth. Welker is a great receiver. His is arguably the best slot receiver in NFL history. Hopefully someday people will overlook his size and he'll get into the HOF (assuming another few years of good production) But its not an insult to Welker to propose that Pats offense would survive him not being here. Hell it thrived without Brady in 2008. It could certainly be very effective without Welker.

 

[PatsFan2]

Ivan, didn't we hear the same argument after Moss was traded. "how is this offense going to survive without Moss creating that deep threat and double coverage on him". Everyone was asking how Welker was going to get free without the concentration of the defense going on Moss. Remember this was fairly early in the season, when no one really had any idea what Gronk OR Hernandez were to become, by the end of the season, and into 2011.

The point is, there is no question that Welker is currently the "go to" guy in the offense, especially since it has only had one of the 2 big TE's all season. But in your post, you intimate that if Welker isn't there this offense will suddenly stop being effective. Common sense and past history has shown us nothing could be further from the truth.

Now before you start going nuts thinking this post is somehow insulting your boy, nothing could be further from the truth. Welker is a great receiver. His is arguably the best slot receiver in NFL history. Hopefully someday people will overlook his size and he'll get into the HOF (assuming another few years of good production) But its not an insult to Welker to propose that Pats offense would survive him not being here. Hell it thrived without Brady in 2008. It could certainly be very effective without Welker.

Moderators...I want this guy banned masquerading under the ultimate homer patsfanken...that is not ken speaking there this is an imposter.What have you done with our patsfanhomer ken...I WANT ANSWERS!

 

[Double TE]

I prefer to judge players on their production, not where they line up.

2011 122 rec 1569 yd and 9 td
2012 118 rec 1354 yd and 6 td

Now, go find an outside receiver who has caught nearly 3000 yards worth of passes in two years. 2923 to be exact. Pay the man. Straight cash.

I was being sarcastic.

I agree with you

 

[Ivan]

Ivan, didn't we hear the same argument after Moss was traded. "how is this offense going to survive without Moss creating that deep threat and double coverage on him". Everyone was asking how Welker was going to get free without the concentration of the defense going on Moss. Remember this was fairly early in the season, when no one really had any idea what Gronk OR Hernandez were to become, by the end of the season, and into 2011.

The point is, there is no question that Welker is currently the "go to" guy in the offense, especially since it has only had one of the 2 big TE's all season. But in your post, you intimate that if Welker isn't there this offense will suddenly stop being effective. Common sense and past history has shown us nothing could be further from the truth.

Now before you start going nuts thinking this post is somehow insulting your boy, nothing could be further from the truth. Welker is a great receiver. His is arguably the best slot receiver in NFL history. Hopefully someday people will overlook his size and he'll get into the HOF (assuming another few years of good production) But its not an insult to Welker to propose that Pats offense would survive him not being here. Hell it thrived without Brady in 2008. It could certainly be very effective without Welker.

Ken, I never heard anyone say they would fall apart without Moss, what I remember was great support for the decision to trade him. And i would suggest that those who did say they were in trouble without Moss really weren't paying close attention to what was happening on the field, just as they aren't really paying close attention to what is actually happening on the field with Welker and are instead making abstract arguments to get rid of him based on some bizarre desire to replace him with a bigger WR. And in truth i honestly think his size has more to do with this issue than any other factor, as over and over and over again people have been clamoring for a big fast downfield WR to replace him while completely overlooking his production and importance to this offense. welker does something no other reciever has been able to do for Brady, he gets open immediately and negates the ability for defenses to blitz the sh.t out of Brady because he will not only be free instantly but will make big yards after the catch and makes defenses pay all day long. he's also a first down machine who keeps their offense on the field and opponents off it, chewing up valuable time that denies players like manning time to put up their own points. he has been the most productive WR in football since joining the Patriots and has been the key component for Brady in making them the most productive offense in history during that time.

The Patriots have spent the last few offseasons rebuilding their defense, and it is now looking like that project is almost complete. couple that with the next few seasons being the end run of brady's career and it makes absolutely no sense in any way to get rid of his most productive abd reliable target as they embark on that stretch run. I have never suggested their offense will fall apart without Welker, it won't, it will still be very good, but I really see no reason to downgrade the best offense in history when there are Championships to be had the next 3-4 years. it simply makes no sense. you don't deliberately get worse when you can finish one of the greatest runs ever with more rings.

Give him 4-40 and close out the Brady era with 2-3 more rings, that's what i want and how i see it, and i believe it is the best course of action for their team.

 

[PP2]

Hell it thrived without Brady in 2008. It could certainly be very effective without Welker.

Come on, Ken. You're way better than that.

Yes it "survived" in '08, but there was no way in hell we were going to the superbowl.

 

[Snake Eyes]

This argument has been made and debunked by the actual results on the field for several years. Hernandez plays all over and Gronk operates from a traditional TE spot, Welker opens up everyone, the stupidest thing they could ever do is allow him to walk. If Belichick actually believed he needed an outside reciever and Welker wasn't needed with Hernandez and Gronk signed he would have paid reggie wayne or another WR lasst offseason instead of tagging Welker

BB wanted him but Wayne had a close relationship with Chuck Pagano and wanted to play with him instead.

 

[kennyb]

Welker should have the good sense to realize that he isn't worth as much anywhere else. He has a great QB throwing to him now, where's he going to go to get that? 18M / 3 years with 12M guaranteed shoujld be more than enough...he should take one for the team.

Sometimes when he catches the ball it looks like the ball is about to swallow him up he's so tiny. All it takes is for him to slow down a bit and he'll be pedestrian. I like the guy too, but he needs to be realistic, he's not going to get paid like the true #1 guys.

 

[mgteich]

Why should Welker accept less than what he can elsewhere, from a team that franchised him rather than giving him a deal that guaranteed more then $6M for 2013?

If what you say is true, then Welker will indeed have the good sense to sign for the patriots, AFTER checking out his options. I understand that you think that there are no other teams that can use Welker well. I might suggest that we are likely to be playing one such team for the AFC championship.

Welker should have the good sense to realize that he isn't worth as much anywhere else. He has a great QB throwing to him now, where's he going to go to get that? 18M / 3 years with 12M guaranteed shoujld be more than enough...he should take one for the team.

Sometimes when he catches the ball it looks like the ball is about to swallow him up he's so tiny. All it takes is for him to slow down a bit and he'll be pedestrian. I like the guy too, but he needs to be realistic, he's not going to get paid like the true #1 guys.

 

[Deus Irae]

Welker should have the good sense to realize that he isn't worth as much anywhere else.

Why should he "realize" something that's not necessarily true?

He has a great QB throwing to him now, where's he going to go to get that?

Any number of teams in the NFL have quality QBs who could make use of Welker's talents.

18M / 3 years with 12M guaranteed shoujld be more than enough...he should take one for the team.

Why should he take one for the team? The team didn't take one for him in the last contract.

Sometimes when he catches the ball it looks like the ball is about to swallow him up he's so tiny. All it takes is for him to slow down a bit and he'll be pedestrian. I like the guy too, but he needs to be realistic, he's not going to get paid like the true #1 guys.

Pierre Garcon got 5/42.5

Why do people here think Welker should take less as a per year average than Pierre Garcon when he's a much better receiver?

 

[DocHoliday]

Honestly we should pay Welker for the sheer reason that if we don't Manning will likely want him to replace Brandon Stokely

 

[kennyb]

Why should he "realize" something that's not necessarily true?



Any number of teams in the NFL have quality QBs who could make use of Welker's talents.



Why should he take one for the team? The team didn't take one for him in the last contract.



Pierre Garcon got 5/42.5

Why do people here think Welker should take less as a per year average than Pierre Garcon when he's a much better receiver?

he's getting something like 9M this year, so that is quite a lot. The team has been very generous. Pierre Garcon, the pats can't compete with stupid nor should they.

there are a lot of places he can go, but with a qb like brady? He's catching 100+ balls per year, will he do that elsewhere? If he wants to make the HOF and probably win 1 or 2 SBs then this is the best place, IMO. And he'll still be rich, especially after this year's 9M haul. Or he could go to the highest stupidest bidder and wind up in palookaville.

 

[ahmed]

he's getting something like 9M this year, so that is quite a lot. The team has been very generous. Pierre Garcon, the pats can't compete with stupid nor should they.

there are a lot of places he can go, but with a qb like brady? He's catching 100+ balls per year, will he do that elsewhere? If he wants to make the HOF and probably win 1 or 2 SBs then this is the best place, IMO. And he'll still be rich, especially after this year's 9M haul. Or he could go to the highest stupidest bidder and wind up in palookaville.

Why would he ever take 6M/year when he's guaranteed 11M if franchised or he can try free agency where he'll certainly get 8-9M+ over multiple years? The Pats were not generous with 9M this year. Since they could not get a multi year deal, they had no choice but to franchise him for 9M or lose him.

This year, they have even less leverage, if any at all. They either pay him what he wants, franchise him for 11M or lose him.

 

[Deus Irae]

he's getting something like 9M this year, so that is quite a lot. The team has been very generous. Pierre Garcon, the pats can't compete with stupid nor should they.

You were only offering $6 million. How is that not stupid, to use your, term given that the Patriots were willing to pay him $9 million+ this year, Welker would make about $11.5 million if the Patriots were to re-tag him this year, and Welker just put in yet another 110+ catch season?

there are a lot of places he can go, but with a qb like brady? He's catching 100+ balls per year, will he do that elsewhere? If he wants to make the HOF and probably win 1 or 2 SBs then this is the best place, IMO. And he'll still be rich, especially after this year's 9M haul. Or he could go to the highest stupidest bidder and wind up in palookaville.

Denver - Upgrade/augment the possibly retiring Stokely
New Orleans - Upgrade/augment Lance Moore
Green Bay - Likely to move on from Finley and Driver, Jennings is FA
Atlanta - Gonzalez likely to retire this year, inside/slot WR needed anyway
Chargers - Lord knows that team needs a quality slot receiver


That's 5 situations that would range from "damned good" to "awesome" for Welker, in terms of both teams and QBs, just off the top of my head.

 

[grux]

I think it is time for the Pats to open up their pocket books and pay the man. He is a true #1 in our offense, has a great rapport with Brady, returns punts and never misses a game. The pats are making a mistake if they let him hit the open market.

 

[patfanken]

Come on, Ken. You're way better than that.

Yes it "survived" in '08, but there was no way in hell we were going to the superbowl.

It was the 5th best offense in the league that year. At the time Cassell had two 400+ yd games in a row, not even Brady had done that to that time. The offense was good enough to win a superbowl that year, but some of the cracks in the defense were starting to show. AThomas went out with a broken arm after having his best season as a Patriot at the time, and I think Rodney Law, and Seymour were hurt that year as well.

If we weren't going to win a superbowl that year it would have just have been as much because the defense was starting to get old, and becoming the team that would "bottom out" in 2009 (if 10-6 and a one and done is bottoming out for the Pats )as it was about not having Brady It was after that playoff disaster BB started his defensive rebuild that we we hope will start to pay dividends this playoff season.

BTW- its easy to say now that that 2008 team wouldn't have been able to make a run at a superbowl now, but you could have said the same thing about the 2001 team, so you never know.

 

[Ivan]

BB wanted him but Wayne had a close relationship with Chuck Pagano and wanted to play with him instead.

That makes sense but I thought that it had more to do with Indy offering a much better deal at 3 years.

Where did his relationship with Pagano come from, he's a DC for an opposing team?