A little early, but: should the Patriots try to re-sign Wes Welker?

[ctpatsfan77]

Yes.

IMO he earned every dollar they paid him through 2011 by the end of the 2009 season at the latest. He already earned every dollar they paid him this year before the end of 2011.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Yes, he's simply worth it. The earlier they can get him signed the easier it will be to manage things in free agency.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Yes, he's simply worth it. The earlier they can get him signed the easier it will be to manage things in free agency.

I hate to sound like I don't want WW on the team (I do) but this is more complicated than people's visceral reaction of "sign him now!". I don't blame WW at all for holding out for a better deal -- he's over 30, a small body, and this gig is going to get him an over abundance of punishment. This is probably his one and only big contract.
Conversely I like that the Patriots play hard ball in contracts and make decisions coldly. While it has resulted in some unfortunate results, it isn't by accident that our rebuilding years aren't like other teams.
This situation is not anywhere as simple as "sign him now"......

 

[DaBruinz]

Welker can't be signed to an extension until after the Pats season is over. Hopefully, they've already worked out much of it, but we won't know until it happens..

 

[Fencer]

There is zero doubt that the Patriots should offer Welker enough money to be one of the highest-paid players on the team, and zero doubt that they will.

The only question is whether both sides can agree on exactly how many millions of dollars to give him.

 

[UK_Pat37]

It's still a tough question. Three years around 24 million was the figure I was set on during the off season process and that still hasn't changed. They offered him two years, 16 million fully guaranteed last year but if they're going to sign him up for longer it needs to be a heavily front loaded deal. It may seem like he could go on forever, but things happen and the Pats still have o protect their business interests to an extent.

 

[nabwong]

So you'd really be happy if WW was putting up 600 yds and earning 9M? Amazing that on the same forum that is ready to ship out Lloyd @4M with 900 yds we have people claiming 600 yds is "playing pretty well".

He is for a 36 year old. Is stokley earning 9m? No. But he is durable and relatively reliable. Of course welker is much better than that. And who is ready to ship out Lloyd.? Definitely not me. If you've read any of my previous posts, i'm a lloyd supporter. Don't put words in my mouth. Stokley is producing well for the money he is paid at his age and so is welker.

 

[PittPatriot]

I marvel at Wes Welker. In 2007, with the cupboard overflowing with talent - he stands out.
Everytime a "Wally Pipp" idea rises, we are reminded of Welker's greatness. I love Edelman - but he lacks some of Welker's intangibles and ability and cannot be used to "replace" WWW.
I keep hearing how the 2 TE set will make Welker less useful - yes, against the Buffalo Bills when everything is clicking. Gronk and Hernandez have only been healthy enough to be on the field together FOUR times all season. WWW answers the bell every time.

I know it goes against BB philosophy to pay for past work when the future is dim, but I would be the last to complain if WWW was at best a "slot receiver" falling short of 1000yd and becomes nothing more than a check down, 3rd down threat in 3-4 years while earning 8-9M/yr.

 

[Ring 6]

He is for a 36 year old. Is stokley earning 9m? No. But he is durable and relatively reliable. Of course welker is much better than that. And who is ready to ship out Lloyd.? Definitely not me. If you've read any of my previous posts, i'm a lloyd supporter. Don't put words in my mouth. Stokley is producing well for the money he is paid at his age and so is welker.

I think the response that should have been made was that if we sign Welker for 3 years, Stokely-like production would not be good.

 

[zipster9]

I hate to sound like I don't want WW on the team (I do) but this is more complicated than people's visceral reaction of "sign him now!". I don't blame WW at all for holding out for a better deal -- he's over 30, a small body, and this gig is going to get him an over abundance of punishment. This is probably his one and only big contract.
Conversely I like that the Patriots play hard ball in contracts and make decisions coldly. While it has resulted in some unfortunate results, it isn't by accident that our rebuilding years aren't like other teams.
This situation is not anywhere as simple as "sign him now"......

I dont believe its that 'easy' saying he is over 30, small body, etc., as well
as low-balling him, and if he does not want the contract, good-bye.

The problem is, who will replace his productivity in 2013?

 

[The_Riddler]

Welker or a younger, bigger outside stud like Dwayne Bowe to pair up with Lloyd and we can replace Wes with Edelman in the slot all at basically the same cost. Something to think about. I am sure Bowe would love to join a winning organization after what he has been through.

 

[zipster9]

Welker or a younger, bigger outside stud like Dwayne Bowe to pair up with Lloyd and we can replace Wes with Edelman in the slot all at basically the same cost. Something to think about. I am sure Bowe would love to join a winning organization after what he has been through.

Bowe is more vertical, and is not a good route runner, still has dropsies. He is not reliable.

Lloyd is still trying to sync with Brady. It takes awhile to do this. Welker is already in sync.

 

[PP2]

There is no perfect answer. If you look at it from a risk standpoint, there is no doubt a 32 yo (next year) WR who has the hits associated with over 1000 hits on him, of course there is a tremendous risk his health or dropoff could make the contract an overpayment.
On the other hand, calling Welker a 'slot receiver' is the height of ignorance in understanding offensive football. The Patriot offense runs through Welker. Before people who don't understand what that means start complaining, let me explain. The concepts of the Patriot passing game are built off of Welkers role. That doesn't mean he is the best player, or they try to get him the ball every ball, it means his role is the focal point that the passing scheme evolves from.

Next to Brady, Welker is the the one player who knows our complicated offense inside out. He can release from any slot, and run any route off to perfection. More than a few times I've seen him release from the TE slot and execute like a TE to confuse the defense (a good example would be that first TD in the last game where he ran a seam to split the RZ cover 2). Not only does he know his own tree to perfection, he knows what everyone else does.

There is no question we pay him what he deserves, and if he, for some unlikely reason drops in production, he still deserves the money for the huge sacrifices he's made for us over the years, since '07. He continually puts his body on the line like nobody I've seen in all my years watching NFL football. This is one of the most toughest son of a ***** I've ever seen put on a football uniform.

 

[Ring 6]

Welker or a younger, bigger outside stud like Dwayne Bowe to pair up with Lloyd and we can replace Wes with Edelman in the slot all at basically the same cost. Something to think about. I am sure Bowe would love to join a winning organization after what he has been through.

Why reinvent the offense?

 

[Ivan]

Why reinvent the offense?

Yep, especially when they are going down the backstretch of the Brady era. The Patriots have a good shot at winning the Super Bowl this season, but it gets even better going forward for the next 3-5 years as their young defense evolves into a dominant untit. Combine that with the most productive and varied offense in football history and the Patriots are poised to go on another run where they can win 2-3 Super Bowls, at least imo. The one thing that could derail it is letting Welker walk. You are right in your analysis that the offense runs through Welker, and disrupting that dynamic and allowing Brady's most important weapon to leave over cap frugality with this much at stake makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Why reinvent the offense?

We only scored 557 points Third highest of all-time. Despite quite a few games missed by Gronk and AHern.

 

[Nehalem]

Bowe is more vertical, and is not a good route runner, still has dropsies. He is not reliable.

Lloyd is still trying to sync with Brady. It takes awhile to do this. Welker is already in sync.

I find it funny that for how much Welker gets derided for the missed Super Bowl catch that people want Bowe.

I swear I saw Bowe cause several interceptions off tipped balls in the few KC games I saw this year.

 

[patfanken]

That's an interesting question. When you think about it this offense is constantly being reinvented. Pryor to the 2010 season the Pat were basically a 3 WR passing offense, attacking deep with Moss and underneath with Welker, with minimum contributions from the TE's and RB's. After 2010 the 2TE's offense appeared without the deep threat, but still a predominantly a passing attack. Then in 2013 the running attack appeared along with an outside the number threat, but still no true "deep threat" (whatever that means)

I don't want to belabor it, but I sincerely hope the Pats and Welker reach some accommodation that keeps him here for the next couple of years, and doesn't cripple their ability to maintain a prudent salary cap structure. However to think that this offense isn't capable of being productive without Wes Welker is ludicrous. In 2006, with the fewest offensive weapons in Brady's career (since 2002) the Pats were STILL the 11th most productive offense in the league.

Somehow I think, with Gronk, Hernandez, Llyodd and the most productive running attack we've had since Cory Dillon, (and this one might even be better because of its depth and versatility);the Pats offense wouldn't fall too far down the stats lists.

Personally the big question on Welker is not whether he's "worth" the money, but rather what is the long term effect tying up that kind of money will have on the rest of the team. Its a very delicate balance. EVERY big signing has to be weighed in that light.

It might not be his fault (due to injuries) but we can safely say that Logan Mankins hasn't been worth his contract the last 2 years. Injury potential IS a factor. I know Welker has been extraordinarily dependable the last 6 years, but Mankins was too. He hadn't missed a practice through 2010 in his career. Over the last 2 years there's hardly been a week when he hasn't been on the injury report. That's how fast things can change.

We all talk about how great the last 3 draft have been. That's the good news. The bad news is that very quickly those guys are going to be coming up to FA, and that has to be prepared for, and the resignings we do this off season, will directly effect the ones we make in years going forward.

OT - a question - I know we had some obscene amount of dead money on the books this season (IIRC over $20MM). Does anyone know approximately what that number will be next season?

 

[fgssand]

Welker can't be signed to an extension until after the Pats season is over. Hopefully, they've already worked out much of it, but we won't know until it happens..

He can be signed now, he wasn't able to until the REGULAR season ended.

Methinks he will be franchised once again and i am ok with that, just need to keep him.

 

[Ivan]

Hmmmm, I wonder what is more important, winning more Super Bowls before Brady hangs them up or having a few million extra 4 years from now?


Screw winning more championships. Time to get rid of Welker, otherwise they won't be able to re-sign Brandon Bolden in 2015.