A little early, but: should the Patriots try to re-sign Wes Welker?

[zipster9]

I would be ecstatic if he would sign for 3/24. But his agent will probably want more.

Someone on this thread indicated that Patriots can negotiate with Welker, now that the Regular season is over. It that true? If so, doesnt that mean any other team can negotiate with Welker?

 

[Ring 6]

Clearly, we should have signed Welker during the last offseason. The philosophy (and success) of the team hasn't changed, so I don't expect a contract with Welker.

The open question is whether the patriots franchise him again. They might and then trade him. I just don't see Welker player for us in 2013.
===================


Let's be clear. I would sign Welker to a 3-4 year contract in a heartbeat.

You contradict yourself here

 

[DaBruinz]

Someone on this thread indicated that Patriots can negotiate with Welker, now that the Regular season is over. It that true? If so, doesnt that mean any other team can negotiate with Welker?

No other team can negotiate with Welker until the start of the new season at the beginning of March.

The Pats are the only team that can negotiate with Welker between now and the start of the free agency period. And FGSSND (or whatever) was correct. The Pats CAN sign Welker to a new contract NOW (pursuant to Article 10, section 2 (k) )

 

[VJCPatriot]

Someone on this thread indicated that Patriots can negotiate with Welker, now that the Regular season is over. It that true? If so, doesnt that mean any other team can negotiate with Welker?

Pats have exclusive negotiating rights until free agent period starts. What you are talking about would be called tampering.

 

[PatsDeb]

The Patriots really screwed up by not re-signing Welker in the last off season. Now it's a year later and they are in the same boat. Welker had a great year and will command a lot of $$ on the open market. They are being dumb and cheap (yes, they are - he makes the offense go, not Gronk & Hernandez, who have both had spotty years due to injury. The Pats LOSE when the other team shuts down Welker (not Gronk or Hernandez), which luckily doesn't happen much). They should just pay the man, like they should have paid him last year. If they overpay, so what? Chances are he will be great next year too and the talk about overpaying will be in the rearview mirror. He has that special chemistry with Brady that Branch used to have, but lost due to injuries and running away to another team in his prime. There must be a way to get this done. It should have already happened. I mean think of it?! If they hadn't tagged Welker and let him go last year, where would we be right now? Gronk & Hernandez have missed a whole season combined, and Edelman has been gone for weeks. Lloyd? An upgrade over Ochostinko, but not the stellar downfield WR we were all hoping for. We would be SCREWED without Welker. Instead we have the #1 O in the NFL.

Edelman is NOT Welker. That was proven with the failed experiment earlier this year when they tried to substitute Edelman for Welker and ended up losing a few close games at the beginning of the year. Edelman also is not as durable as Welker. They actually played well TOGETHER before Julian went down.

I fear that the Welker situation has become like the Branch situation. The Pats are pissed because Welker won't budge on some issue, so they are going to let him go to make a point. And you know who is going to suffer? You, me and TFB. Thumbs down on the Pats on this one.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No other team can negotiate with Welker until the start of the new season at the beginning of March.

The Pats are the only team that can negotiate with Welker between now and then, but a new contract cannot be signed until the Pats season is over.

It's over for contract purposes per the CBA (I double checked). The prohibition in signing a franchise player to a long term deal expires following the last day of a teams regular season. That said, they won't negotiate again until the playoffs are over. Neither side wants that distraction even if it's not a public one.

 

[Ivan]

It's over for contract purposes per the CBA (I double checked). The prohibition in signing a franchise player to a long term deal expires following the last day of a teams regular season. That said, they won't negotiate again until the playoffs are over. Neither side wants that distraction even if it's not a public one.

The prohibition is against signing during that period, not negotiating, right? Fauria seemed to think a deal was already done, which if true, would mean there wouldn't need to be any negotiations just the signing. I'm not saying he was right, more like wishful thinking because having him sign a deal next week would be a great boost for the team going into the play-offs, i seriously doubt there is anyone on that team who would want to see him leave.

 

[zipster9]

The prohibition is against signing during that period, not negotiating, right? Fauria seemed to think a deal was already done, which if true, would mean there wouldn't need to be any negotiations just the signing. I'm not saying he was right, more like wishful thinking because having him sign a deal next week would be a great boost for the team going into the play-offs, i seriously doubt there is anyone on that team who would want to see him leave.

It seems like Patriots want Welker back, and Welker probably wants to stay.

We will know before March, if there was some tentative agreement to keep
Welker in a Patriots uniform...

IMO.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Patriots really screwed up by not re-signing Welker in the last off season. Now it's a year later and they are in the same boat. Welker had a great year and will command a lot of $$ on the open market. They are being dumb and cheap (yes, they are - he makes the offense go, not Gronk & Hernandez, who have both had spotty years due to injury. The Pats LOSE when the other team shuts down Welker (not Gronk or Hernandez), which luckily doesn't happen much). They should just pay the man, like they should have paid him last year. If they overpay, so what? Chances are he will be great next year too and the talk about overpaying will be in the rearview mirror. He has that special chemistry with Brady that Branch used to have, but lost due to injuries and running away to another team in his prime. There must be a way to get this done. It should have already happened. I mean think of it?! If they hadn't tagged Welker and let him go last year, where would we be right now? Gronk & Hernandez have missed a whole season combined, and Edelman has been gone for weeks. Lloyd? An upgrade over Ochostinko, but not the stellar downfield WR we were all hoping for. We would be SCREWED without Welker. Instead we have the #1 O in the NFL.

Edelman is NOT Welker. That was proven with the failed experiment earlier this year when they tried to substitute Edelman for Welker and ended up losing a few close games at the beginning of the year. Edelman also is not as durable as Welker. They actually played well TOGETHER before Julian went down.

I fear that the Welker situation has become like the Branch situation. The Pats are pissed because Welker won't budge on some issue, so they are going to let him go to make a point. And you know who is going to suffer? You, me and TFB. Thumbs down on the Pats on this one.

A few things. First and foremost it can't be like the Branch situation since Branch was still under contract. Welker won't be. Not to mention that Branch lied and stabbed them in the back.

Next, the part is bold is 100% WRONG. You clearly didn't bother to look at the schedule over the last 2 years and see if the game logs actually supported your statement. Of the 7 games they lost, there were 2 games where Welker had less than 95 yards receiving. In 4 of them, Welker broke 130 yards receiving. So, the stats don't support this idea that if you "shut down Welker, the Pats lose."

In fact, you can actually point to one of Gronk or Hernandez being out/injured as a bigger reason they lost games. Gronk being ineffective because of his ankle injury against the Giants in the SB. Hernandez going down against Arizona and being out against Baltimore.

Lloyd was never a "stellar downfield threat". Not ever in his career. He was more of a David Givens who makes spectacular catches, but can suffer the dropsies. People thinking otherwise didn't know what they were talking about and clearly had never actually watched Lloyd.

 

[Ring 6]

The Patriots really screwed up by not re-signing Welker in the last off season. Now it's a year later and they are in the same boat. Welker had a great year and will command a lot of $$ on the open market.

We really don't know that until it plays out. They could easily sign him to a contract that is one year and whatever the tag was less than they would have last year.

They are being dumb and cheap

Explain cheap? Choosing item A and B instead of item C for the exact same total cost is not cheap.
You are implying that they are not paying Welker in order to keep the cash rather than it being a decision of how to spend the money. Is that what you believe?

(yes, they are - he makes the offense go, not Gronk & Hernandez, who have both had spotty years due to injury. The Pats LOSE when the other team shuts down Welker (not Gronk or Hernandez), which luckily doesn't happen much). They should just pay the man, like they should have paid him last year. If they overpay, so what?

Overpaying must be considered in every contract decision. If they overpay, so what? is the type of thinking that put the Jets where they are now.

Chances are he will be great next year too and the talk about overpaying will be in the rearview mirror.

Its more the end of the contract that is the concern not the front.

He has that special chemistry with Brady that Branch used to have, but lost due to injuries and running away to another team in his prime.

He has 10 times the chemistry Branch did.

There must be a way to get this done. It should have already happened. I mean think of it?! If they hadn't tagged Welker and let him go last year, where would we be right now?

But they didn't let him go, they tagged him, which they can do again if they choose.

Gronk & Hernandez have missed a whole season combined, and Edelman has been gone for weeks. Lloyd? An upgrade over Ochostinko, but not the stellar downfield WR we were all hoping for. We would be SCREWED without Welker. Instead we have the #1 O in the NFL.

I don't think having a lot of injuries this year is a reason to support signing an aging player for big money. I agree we should sign Welker, but I disagree with your reasons.

Edelman is NOT Welker. That was proven with the failed experiment earlier this year when they tried to substitute Edelman for Welker and ended up losing a few close games at the beginning of the year.

Edelman is not Welker, but there was never an experiment to replace Welker with Edelman.

I fear that the Welker situation has become like the Branch situation. The Pats are pissed because Welker won't budge on some issue, so they are going to let him go to make a point. And you know who is going to suffer? You, me and TFB. Thumbs down on the Pats on this one.

The Branch situation was very different. He wanted a lot more than he was worth, and he proved he wasn't worth it.
The fact that we chose to tag Welker rather than sign him long term is not an indication of being pissed at him, or planning to let him go to make a point. It is an indication that they saw that as the best move for 2012, no more than that.

 

[fgssand]

Originally Posted by The_Riddler
It's kind of interesting in that we really have two of the same interior slot players in Welker and Edelman. Prior to getting hurt, Edelman and Brady were really starting to get a feel for one another and to be honest I think the more they play together, the better that chemistry would become, I could see it matching the Welker chemistry given time.

Dewayne Bowe is that deep threat that we simply still do not have. He's that other "Go To" guy outside the hashes that we still don't seem to have. Bowe hasn't had a real QB throwing to him since he's gotten in this league. Can you imagine what he would do with Brady. He's young, Welker isn't at this point. To me, I put those heavy cap dollars into the younger player who fits a glaring need.

Edelmen at his paultry salary could easily slip into the slot role held by Welker and play that role pretty effectively.

Bowe/Edelman vs Welker/player X going forward, I'll take option one.
Stop with this nonsense.

Stop with this nonsense.

We agree 100%.........what he said is rediculous.

There is nothing wrong with having edelman develop all the chemistry in the world as the two were starting to do - BUT - Welker must remain right where he is, no matter what the cost.

Worst case, franchise Welker and then you can have Bowe, Lloyd, Edelman, whomever you want as long as Welker remains, PERIOD.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The prohibition is against signing during that period, not negotiating, right? Fauria seemed to think a deal was already done, which if true, would mean there wouldn't need to be any negotiations just the signing. I'm not saying he was right, more like wishful thinking because having him sign a deal next week would be a great boost for the team going into the play-offs, i seriously doubt there is anyone on that team who would want to see him leave.

Correct. No prohibition against talking. But Welker didn't want to discuss contract in season, including in 2009. While it's mostly the team and agent doing the talking, things get said that can become distracting and to his credit he wanted his focus to be on playing and winning. It's something they should applaud. They seldom do deals with other than role players once the season starts. They did a ways back with Koppen, but they likely had the parameters of that deal worked out early on and delayed just to have the opportunity to manipulate the cap (had to use NLTBE incentive clauses back in the day to roll excess cap forward, now just a letter of intent suffices).

It will be interesting to see if this season has proved to them that they need this guy going forward enough to risk a longer deal than they'd like. Or if they feel they've suffered through the worst where the young TE's are concerned and they don't anticipate them both being lost for long stretches going forward. And on a lesser level if they have given up on the Edleman can replace anyone theory. Don't get me wrong, if he could stay on the field Edelman is a nice depth piece. Kind of like Woodhead who has proven he can and should be extended. It takes a village to remain this consistently competitive in the NFL.

If guys are asking for stupid money I'm all for moving on. Just don't believe that was ever the case with Welker. They were quick to jump at the chance to tie up the young TE's at better than tag rates for years to come before they really had a chance to evaluate them for durability and consistency. The trade off with Welker is he's older but they know who he is and what to expect from him because he's way over produced relative to his contracts throughout his career. It's always a risk reward calculation but Welker has never let them down unless someone inside Gillette is as silly as some fans here to be holding one missed catch against him. If so they should hold others as accountable.

 

[zipster9]

Correct. No prohibition against talking. But Welker didn't want to discuss contract in season, including in 2009. While it's mostly the team and agent doing the talking, things get said that can become distracting and to his credit he wanted his focus to be on playing and winning. It's something they should applaud. They seldom do deals with other than role players once the season starts. They did a ways back with Koppen, but they likely had the parameters of that deal worked out early on and delayed just to have the opportunity to manipulate the cap (had to use NLTBE incentive clauses back in the day to roll excess cap forward, now just a letter of intent suffices).

It will be interesting to see if this season has proved to them that they need this guy going forward enough to risk a longer deal than they'd like. Or if they feel they've suffered through the worst where the young TE's are concerned and they don't anticipate them both being lost for long stretches going forward. And on a lesser level if they have given up on the Edleman can replace anyone theory. Don't get me wrong, if he could stay on the field Edelman is a nice depth piece. Kind of like Woodhead who has proven he can and should be extended. It takes a village to remain this consistently competitive in the NFL.

If guys are asking for stupid money I'm all for moving on. Just don't believe that was ever the case with Welker. They were quick to jump at the chance to tie up the young TE's at better than tag rates for years to come before they really had a chance to evaluate them for durability and consistency. The trade off with Welker is he's older but they know who he is and what to expect from him because he's way over produced relative to his contracts throughout his career. It's always a risk reward calculation but Welker has never let them down unless someone inside Gillette is as silly as some fans here to be holding one missed catch against him. If so they should hold others as accountable.

Yes. Fans blaming Welker for that 1 play where he tried to catch a difficult throw in SB, is just plain stupid. There were many plays in the SB that could've made a difference, yet fans choose to ignore.

It was not like Welker caught it and dropped it. Sigh. Some fans are just plain ignorant.

 

[PP2]

I don't agree with paying as a thank you for the past, but I fully agree this is a player where the value he brings dramatically exceeds the risk of dropoff or injury.

It's a token of appreciation that has more benefits than just Welker. It shows that this organization cares about its players which has long term benefits in terms of showing players/potential agents that they will invest. The Patriots used to play hard-ball and that got them nowhere. They've invested long term in Wilfork, Mankins, Brady and the dividends are paying off handsomely.

 

[eagle eye]

I don't see any good reason why they would not sign WW. He just keeps performing to an elite level so there is no reason to be looking down the line and expecting his production to drop.

 

[Reckedtrek]

I don't want Dwayne Bowe!

Every time Brady overthrows him, someone in the room will say "Hey, Brady just through the football... somewhere over the Dwayne Bowe!" ...and I'll have to kill the sonofabish!

In all seriousness, I usually agree with BB general philosophy of not getting sentimental when it comes to future contracts. I also get that WW could drop off at any point quickly and deeply, but I think a 3 year deal at 8-9/per is a worthy risk. Even if WW is the same ol' Wes in 2013, slightly worse in 2014, and half the receiver he was by 2015, you're still getting the best option for Brady in his final years. The D is close to being very good again, maybe even great in a year or two. The running game is solid now. EVERYTHING is just about in place for playoff winning performances.

Keeping Wes where he belongs is the final piece. I don't say it often, but BB should lock him up. And Wes *should* realize what he has here, not only in this team but for future radio, TV, endorsements, etc...

"There comes a time when you have to ask yourself, How much is enough?" - Tom Brady

 

[BananaRepublican]

The Patriot offense runs through Welker.

That sounds like the blueprint for what they did after, not before Hernandez' injury. This leads me to wonder what they think about the central role of the offense for 2013.

Does anybody think "they learned their lesson" from what happened this year? Why do I doubt that? I think that Bill has been trying to engineer a TE-Centric offense for decades and is the source of this whole "dump Wes" movement. Wes plays the same part of the field that his TEs play, so his money is better spent on getting a good outside receiver(s), right? He's got four TEs on the team that can all play. How many slot receivers? There is no depth there so that tells us what? Bill doesn't value the position as much as TE, and they all play the same part of the field.

So if I were to guess I'd say Bill wants that Wes money to buy a reliable outside threat. I'm not saying Donald Driver would be the answer, but a younger version of Driver along with Lloyd and Edleman would certainly give some depth and some options in another part of the field for Tom.

And BTW this is not me expressing my wishes. I wish for Wes to be here. I am just looking at what I THINK the boss wants.

 

[Double TE]

I think he'll be here. Seems to have the same grit and quickness he had in 07 and he definitely has savvy. Actually the offense as constituted is most excellent. Why change it? Especially deadly when Edelman is there.

 

[Bman12]

I believe after this season, they will sign him.

 

[Ivan]

That sounds like the blueprint for what they did after, not before Hernandez' injury. This leads me to wonder what they think about the central role of the offense for 2013.

Does anybody think "they learned their lesson" from what happened this year? Why do I doubt that? I think that Bill has been trying to engineer a TE-Centric offense for decades and is the source of this whole "dump Wes" movement. Wes plays the same part of the field that his TEs play, so his money is better spent on getting a good outside receiver(s), right? He's got four TEs on the team that can all play. How many slot receivers? There is no depth there so that tells us what? Bill doesn't value the position as much as TE, and they all play the same part of the field.

So if I were to guess I'd say Bill wants that Wes money to buy a reliable outside threat. I'm not saying Donald Driver would be the answer, but a younger version of Driver along with Lloyd and Edleman would certainly give some depth and some options in another part of the field for Tom.

And BTW this is not me expressing my wishes. I wish for Wes to be here. I am just looking at what I THINK the boss wants.

This argument has been made and debunked by the actual results on the field for several years. Hernandez plays all over and Gronk operates from a traditional TE spot, Welker opens up everyone, the stupidest thing they could ever do is allow him to walk. If Belichick actually believed he needed an outside reciever and Welker wasn't needed with Hernandez and Gronk signed he would have paid reggie wayne or another WR lasst offseason instead of tagging Welker