Tebow to Pats rumor

[ausbacker]

You have nothing, no arguments, only personal attacks. That really shows who you are.

Tebow had JAG TEs, while Cam had 2 very good TEs.
Cam's TEs were good for 6 receptions every game, while Tebow's TEs were good for 2 at most every game. With 4 more completions a game, Tebow's completion % goes to 60%, and the haters are exposed for what they really are, haters.

I apologize now for confusing the haters with FACTS.

I'm still trying to work out why you think Tebow's completion % is going to go up in a conventional offense when teams stop stacking the box and putting defenders into coverage. Run first team, if anything should soften the throwing lanes for Tebow (but hey, we all saw how that worked out).

Just saying "what's your point" is not the smartest argument I've ever seen. Let's try and make things simple for you in the form of a dialogue:



Hope that simplifies things a little bit.

Given I've provided the both of you with several counter arguments throughout the thread and in response to many posters (none that have been adequately addressed by either of you) you can both please yourselves.

Nowhere have I said that Tim Tebow being a winner isn't fantastic because it is. For some reason or another, you and patsderoer appear to believe that Tim Tebow was the only winner on the Broncos during their streaks and playoff run.

I can't and don't see who he is going to supplant on the New England roster. That has been presented several times for no answer.

 

[supafly]

Yeah 17 INT, while having a veteran very good receiver in Steve Smith, and two very good TEs in G Olsen and J Shockey. Compared that with what Tebow had, only young and inexperienced WRs, and the worst center in the league, and some average at best TEs.

And Tebow still took his team to the playoffs, the same team(without its best receiver B Lloyd) who started 1-4 and were completely hopeless. And in the playoffs, Tebow throws for 316 yards against the #1 passing defence, and wins the game. But he cannot throw the ball, while Cam and his 17 INT can. LOL

I think that we're all going to have our own opinions of certain players around the NFL or on the NEP that we personally feel as being better, or not being too good.

The whole Tebow situation has been a sticky situation with great debate since day one--before he was even drafted. There are many (the majority) of mediots, GM's, coaches, and the like who do not feel as though he is a very good NFL caliber QB. However, your opinion may differ, and that's fine and respected.

I think one thing to keep in mind when assessing his play vs PIT in the playoffs is the fact that PIT's defensive scheme allowed/dared Tebow to try and beat them over the top. We all know they were scared of his running, and we all know that it was a terrible scheme and gameplan. I think that aspect had just as much, if not more, to do with his success in that game; but then again, that's just my personal opinion too.

I think the Tebow situation will continue to be a hot topic of debate, but I cannot see where he would fit in on this particular team in NE. Only time will tell if he is a successful NFL player at QB or otherwise.

 

[patsderoer]

I'm still trying to work out why you think Tebow's completion % is going to go up in a conventional offense when teams stop stacking the box and putting defenders into coverage. Run first team, if anything should soften the throwing lanes for Tebow (but hey, we all saw how that worked out).

With 2 legit TEs, who know how to get open, its easy to get a get a completion.
With JAG TEs, its a lot harder.

Add to that Tebow's WRs, young and inexperienced (Thomas and Decker), injured a lot(thomas only started 5 games) and the worst center in the league.

And how did that worked out? A playoff win for a hopeless team who started 1-4, a 316 yard throwing perfomance against the #1 passing defence in the league. Thats really bad, isnt? Only in the mind of Tebow's haters.

 

[ausbacker]

With 2 legit TEs, who know how to get open, its easy to get a get a completion.
With JAG TEs, its a lot harder.

Add to that Tebow's WRs, young and inexperienced (Thomas and Decker), injured a lot(thomas only started 5 games) and the worst center in the league.

And how did that worked out? A playoff win for a hopeless team who started 1-4, a 316 yard throwing perfomance against the #1 passing defence in the league. Thats really bad, isnt? Only in the mind of Tebow's haters.

Here's a simple and direct question for you patsderoer. Do you want Tim Tebow on the Patriots roster as a Quarterback and explain your rational for starting him ahead of Tm Brady or on the depth chart ahead of Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallett.

Also, is there a particular reason you aren't listing Tebow's second playoff start? What were those numbers against what ranked defense?

 

[manxman2601]

I'm still trying to work out why you think Tebow's completion % is going to go up in a conventional offense when teams stop stacking the box and putting defenders into coverage. Run first team, if anything should soften the throwing lanes for Tebow (but hey, we all saw how that worked out).


Given I've provided the both of you with several counter arguments throughout the thread and in response to many posters (none that have been adequately addressed by either of you) you can both please yourselves.

Nowhere have I said that Tim Tebow being a winner isn't fantastic because it is. For some reason or another, you and patsderoer appear to believe that Tim Tebow was the only winner on the Broncos during their streaks and playoff run.

I can't and don't see who he is going to supplant on the New England roster. That has been presented several times for no answer.

O.K., let's dial things back a bit - i'm never a fan of bad blood.

I've never said that Tebow was the only reason for the Broncos success but he certainly can't be discounted as part of it. When Brady was regularly getting fourth quarter victories in his first season, it was all about his clutchiness. Now Tebow of course is not the same QB as Brady (60%+ completion percentage to 40%+) tells us that but one can't claim 4th quarter success for a QB on the one hand and then dismiss it out of hand in the other instance. The new offensive scheme, Denver's defense and Tim Tebow were all a part of a pretty compelling storyline - no one aspect should be elevated or dismissed to further an argument.

As for the roster spot, how about Brian Hoyer? There's a chance he leaves, Mallett becomes the backup and Tebow is used in the role I described and should disaster strike and we lose both Mallett and Brady, then the season is pretty much lost anyway so QB reps for Tebow is no great disaster. And if Hoyer stay's then how about Tiquan Underwood. Pretty difficult to make an argument that he contributes anything significant to the team that will be missed by replacing him with Tebow.

there's no great movement here advocating for us acquiring Tebow. There's just some of us taking a realistic position that it would be the type of surprise move BB pulls and that it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. This doesn't seem to be too radical a position compared to those who state with absolute certainty that BB will never do it. Presuming to know with absolute certainty what is going through BB's mind is the radical position with this team.

Finally, for many posters and I'm not including you in this, there is an agenda related to opposing Tebow that is not just about Football. Such intolerance has really annoyed me tonight, hence my curt answers to you. And for that I apologise.

I can clearly see why some would not see a Tebow acquisition as a good idea, on that I'm agnostic as I am with the cause of much of the opposition to Tebow.

 

[ausbacker]

O.K., let's dial things back a bit - i'm never a fan of bad blood.

Fair enough, it's probably easier to address the dialogue in this non-cross sectional manner.

I've never said that Tebow was the only reason for the Broncos success but he certainly can't be discounted as part of it. When Brady was regularly getting fourth quarter victories in his first season, it was all about his clutchiness. Now Tebow of course is not the same QB as Brady (60%+ completion percentage to 40%+) tells us that but one can't claim 4th quarter success for a QB on the one hand and then dismiss it out of hand in the other instance. The new offensive scheme, Denver's defense and Tim Tebow were all a part of a pretty compelling storyline - no one aspect should be elevated or dismissed to further an argument.

I agree.

As for the roster spot, how about Brian Hoyer? There's a chance he leaves, Mallett becomes the backup and Tebow is used in the role I described and should disaster strike and we lose both Mallett and Brady, then the season is pretty much lost anyway so QB reps for Tebow is no great disaster. And if Hoyer stay's then how about Tiquan Underwood. Pretty difficult to make an argument that he contributes anything significant to the team that will be missed by replacing him with Tebow.

My issue with replacing Hoyer isn't that Mallett goes up the chart but that Tebow comes in as the 3rd string QB. Why would the Patriots spend time developing a Quarterback who hasn't shown the aptitude to competently Quarterback a Pro Style offense? I don't see him replacing any of the positional players. That's all I am proposing. I don't see who he replaces.

there's no great movement here advocating for us acquiring Tebow. There's just some of us taking a realistic position that it would be the type of surprise move BB pulls and that it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. This doesn't seem to be too radical a position compared to those who state with absolute certainty that BB will never do it. Presuming to know with absolute certainty what is going through BB's mind is the radical position with this team.

I'm not disagreeing that it's a radical notion because it isn't with Belichick. What I don't understand is people forwarding all manner of Tebow statistics, especially those as a QB continually push his abilities as a QB but want to add him as a wrinkle option for the Patriots, effectively undermining the advantage of Tom Brady.

Finally, for many posters and I'm not including you in this, there is an agenda related to opposing Tebow that is not just about Football. Such intolerance has really annoyed me tonight, hence my curt answers to you. And for that I apologise.

I can clearly see why some would not see a Tebow acquisition as a good idea, on that I'm agnostic as I am with the cause of much of the opposition to Tebow.

No particular issue with this. I'm not a fan of religious fanaticism but that doesn't play into my assessment of Tebow and what role/roster sport he would command.

 

[Joker]

Tebow was essentially a rookie, and that is what rookies do, they blow hot and cold. TJ Yates did the same, played very good in the first playoff game, then he threw 3 INT vs Baltimore. Yet there is not talk in Houston that TJ Yates cannot throw the damn football. On the contrary, he is viewed very well, and now he is viewed as a reliable backup and expected to develop and take over if Schaub goes down again. And Yates didnt have the worst center in the league in front of him, nor did he had only young and inexperienced receivers to throw to.

You Tebow haters are very clearly blinded by hate against him. You just recycle that completion % over and over and over and over and over and over again, not taking into account the context.

And Tebow can throw the damn football, he is the highest rated passer in the history of SEC football, he threw for 316 yards in a playoff win against the # 1 passing defence in the league. Brady, who is a veteran in the league, threw for 198 yards vs the Steelers defense in the regular season. And brady had weapons like Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, Branch. Tebow only had young receivers and some invisible TEs.

Uh...are you calling me a Tebow hater? Sure looks like it..what are you, like twelve years old or what? The whole country saw Tebow get exposed quite badly against the Patriots...you keep yammering on about "316 yards against the 5th ranked D!!" and choose to conveniently call me or anyone else who disagrees a "hater!!!!" when I point out that he threw only NINE completions in 26 attempts against the THIRTY FIRST DEFENSE in the NFL....I'll print that out again so you get a good look at it..

THIRTY FIRST RANKED DEFENSE

I don't care how many times you call me or anyone else a "hater!!!!", I'm a long time NFL football fan and THAT performance is what speaks volumes to me and everybody in the country who isn't a rah rah Tebow boy. You have to be delusional to think that Belichick would bring Tebow into N.E. and run the wildcat and take Brady out on 3rd downs and all the rest of these incomprehensibly idiotic offensive "theories" being vomited up. I have absolutely NOTHING against BB bringing Tebow on board as a running back/slash type that he can spot in specific game situations.

 

[duce110]

You ask, we deliver!

Are we trying for worst posts ever in this thread?

Practice Squad cuts are needed

If you reread the post where you have highlighted, no where in my post did I write permanent. If you scroll up a couple of lines, it states TRICK PLAYS, something tebow could help us out in. How many times do we have to see Faulk on a 4th and 2. I bet there could be a design that puts the Pats at a better position with a trick play to seal the game with Tebow, even as a runner. As many have said, he's elusive, not a passer. The Pats won't get him but you cant argue that he wouldnt add another dimension to this offense. And I'll wait after the Tebow frenzy before I eat crow. The mad genius is a genius for a reason so I'll what he does with a empty running back spot if BJGE leaves. You have to young kids who could push the rock, but can they push it the way Tebow can. He would make a great running back on this team.

 

[manxman2601]

Fair enough, it's probably easier to address the dialogue in this non-cross sectional manner.


I agree.


My issue with replacing Hoyer isn't that Mallett goes up the chart but that Tebow comes in as the 3rd string QB. Why would the Patriots spend time developing a Quarterback who hasn't shown the aptitude to competently Quarterback a Pro Style offense? I don't see him replacing any of the positional players. That's all I am proposing. I don't see who he replaces.


I'm not disagreeing that it's a radical notion because it isn't with Belichick. What I don't understand is people forwarding all manner of Tebow statistics, especially those as a QB continually push his abilities as a QB but want to add him as a wrinkle option for the Patriots, effectively undermining the advantage of Tom Brady.


No particular issue with this. I'm not a fan of religious fanaticism but that doesn't play into my assessment of Tebow and what role/roster sport he would command.

I don't see the downside to Tebow as a third stringer. What's the likelihood of him getting any meaningful snaps? Some I suppose but if Hoyer leaves and we draft a rookie to replace him, is that late-round rookie going to be a better option?


One interesting statistic of note:

27 BenJarvus Green-Ellis, RB NE 181 667 3.7
28 Tim Tebow, QB DEN 122 660 5.4

And Tebow adds the option of throwing the ball on a sweep for the occasional trick play.

Have you heard of Jim "crash" Jensen:

James Christopher Jensen (born November 14, 1958 in Abington, Pennsylvania) is a former professional American football wide receiver, running back, tight end and quarterback who played for the Miami Dolphins from 1981 to 1992

Jensen wore jersey # 11 because he entered the league as a quarterback. After Marino was selected in the 1983 NFL Draft, it became evident that Jensen would need to find another way to survive on the Dolphins roster. He became a human Swiss army knife, with a knack for making tackles on punt and kickoff coverages and converting third down opportunities as a running back or wide receiver in the offensive set with Marino.

His best season statistically was in 1989 with 61 receptions for 557 yards and 6 TDs receiving, with 8 rushing attempts for 50 yards, and 1 passing attempt and completion for a 19 yard touchdown.[3] He was named the Dolphins special teams MVP in 1988. Jensen finished his 12 NFL seasons with 229 receptions for 2,171 yards and 19 touchdowns. He also passed for two TD's. In 1989,

That's all most of us are advocating (with more rushing attempts, particularly on goalline plays).

Jim "Crash" Jensen and Dan Marino Hearts on Fire Highlights Touchdown Miami Dolphins - YouTube

 

[chumpchange]

Peyton Manning, the #2 QB in the NFL this century, is going to the Broncos as long as contract details can be worked out. That thread's got just under 200 posts in it right now. Here, with a mere rumor that Tim Tebow might be of interest to the Patriots and might possibly end up in New England, this thread has 400 posts.


Gotta love it.... :bricks:

EXACTLY. This joke of a quarterback is such a polarizing figure, the atmosphere around him completely takes over a team. It no longer about a team, it's about 'Tebow should play because *fill in the blank*.'

And it's endless. I've never seen anything like it. I'm sure Tebow as Manning's backup has never even been considered because there's no way Manning will tolerate that circus behind him.

Tebowmania is like the kudzu in Georgia or the pythons in Florida...foreign species introduced into an environment that completely overtakes and eradicates the natives. Tebow doesn't need to be anywhere near this team.

 

[Joker]

If you reread the post where you have highlighted, no where in my post did I write permanent. If you scroll up a couple of lines, it states TRICK PLAYS, something tebow could help us out in. How many times do we have to see Faulk on a 4th and 2. I bet there could be a design that puts the Pats at a better position with a trick play to seal the game with Tebow, even as a runner. As many have said, he's elusive, not a passer. The Pats won't get him but you cant argue that he wouldnt add another dimension to this offense. And I'll wait after the Tebow frenzy before I eat crow. The mad genius is a genius for a reason so I'll what he does with a empty running back spot if BJGE leaves. You have to young kids who could push the rock, but can they push it the way Tebow can. He would make a great running back on this team.

I agree with that and the BJGE issue IS a solid reason for kicking the Tebow tires..with Ridley and Vereen heading into their second season it's reasonable to opine that they would cover the major part of the running back duties formerly held by BJGE leaving Tebow as an incredibly versatile weapon in the Faulk role...what is NOT known, it would seem, is what Tebow himself is willing to settle on as far as his role on a team like the Patriots...obviously, despite these screaming Tebow harpies, he's not taking snaps away from a Tom Brady anytime soon.

 

[ausbacker]

I don't see the downside to Tebow as a third stringer. What's the likelihood of him getting any meaningful snaps? Some I suppose but if Hoyer leaves and we draft a rookie to replace him, is that late-round rookie going to be a better option?

That's the point thought. What's the point of acquiring someone who wants to play Quarterback (and has openly stated so) to be the third option whilst proposing the use of Tebow as a red zone RB?

One interesting statistic of note:

27 BenJarvus Green-Ellis, RB NE 181 667 3.7
28 Tim Tebow, QB DEN 122 660 5.4

And Tebow adds the option of throwing the ball on a sweep for the occasional trick play.

I wouldn't want anyone throwing the ball other than Tom Brady in the red zone, so I'm not particularly fond of this. As for Green-Ellis, well the proof is in the pudding with his contract at present. I suggest the Patriots would like him back, but at their price (that's why I didn't list him on the depth chart).

Have you heard of Jim "crash" Jensen:

That's all most of us are advocating (with more rushing attempts, particularly on goalline plays).

Jim "Crash" Jensen and Dan Marino Hearts on Fire Highlights Touchdown Miami Dolphins - YouTube

I hadn't heard of him but thanks for the history lesson (always welcomed). I still don't see a position for Tebow on the Patriots roster, but that's just me.

 

[manxman2601]

In respect to trade value, I'm certainly not in favour of giving up too much for him. I certainly wouldn't trade a 3rd straight up. I might stretch to a 4th but even that's unlikely.

However I would consider, for example, swapping our 4th for their 5th, or our 3rd for their 4th and a late round pick next year.

Knowing BB however, what's more likely to happen is that we re-sign Hoyer long-term when he realises there's no market for him and trade Mallett to the Broncos who have no backup presently for their 3rd rounder and Tebow or something similar.

Alternatively, the Broncos have pick 57. If BB is likely to move out of pick 31 as is most likely considering his track record, trade pick 31 for Broncos 57, a 2013 2nd and Tim Tebow. With three second rounders, we can always move back up if needed.

 

[manxman2601]

That's the point thought. What's the point of acquiring someone who wants to play Quarterback (and has openly stated so) to be the third option whilst proposing the use of Tebow as a red zone RB?


I wouldn't want anyone throwing the ball other than Tom Brady in the red zone, so I'm not particularly fond of this. As for Green-Ellis, well the proof is in the pudding with his contract at present. I suggest the Patriots would like him back, but at their price (that's why I didn't list him on the depth chart).


I hadn't heard of him but thanks for the history lesson (always welcomed). I still don't see a position for Tebow on the Patriots roster, but that's just me.

I'm not really looking to persuade anyone, I just enjoy kicking the tires on possibilities for the Pats. If Tebow wants to remain a QB, then I wish him well and move on. If he's willing to perform in this role then I wouldn't object if the Pats go down this road, if he isn't, then on to the next thread.

 

[ausbacker]

I'm not really looking to persuade anyone, I just enjoy kicking the tires on possibilities for the Pats. If Tebow wants to remain a QB, then I wish him well and move on. If he's willing to perform in this role then I wouldn't object if the Pats go down this road, if he isn't, then on to the next thread.

Nor am I, I simply trying to rationalize how Tebow improves the Patriots and who of the signed players I'd play him ahead of.

 

[Dillon46]

Any trade of Tebow to Pats I dont like at all.......

 

[supafly]

Any trade of Tebow to Pats I dont like at all.......

Your not down with the circus atmosphere that would immediately surround Tim Tebow's arrival?

I wonder why not?

 

[Bostonian1962]

So you expect that if Tebow's team signs a QB to take his job, then comes to him and says, Hey, we need some help. We want to trade you to New England so we can get a 7th round pick for you, but of course you will be 4th string there, and they want you to take a pay cut. We would really like you to do this instead of being cut and being free to sign with any of the other 31 teams for whatever role and money you can get. How 'bout it Timmy, want to do us a solid in return for that slap in the face we gave you to reward the playoff berth and win that we hadn't had in 6 years? Tim? Tim? Tim?

I didn't realize Tebow has approval rights on any trade.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

Why is this thread on 40+ pages...must be the offseason...

 

[JoeSixPat]

Joe,

who ahead of the following are you going to start/play Tebow?

QB - Brady      Hoyer      Mallett
RB - Ridley     Vereen     Woodhead
TE - Gronkowski Hernandez  Fells
WR - Welker     Lloyd      Stallworth  Ochocinco  Gonzalez  Slater  Branch Edelman

I agree... The thought of Tebow playing a non-QB role is about as unlikely as Aaron Hernandez playing Running Back.... Or a LB playing Tight End... Or a WR playing DB.

Belichick and McDaniels just don't do things like that.