Looking a bit ahead: Spags for AHC/DB's

[supafly]

I'm still holding out hope for the return of the much esteemed Eric Mangenius...






(wait, do I need an emoticon for that one too?)

 

[DarrylS]

It makes perfect sense, as Spagnuolo is from Western Mass, that he would after his demise in St. Louis, pass up offers to be a D Coordinator and become a position coach for the Patriots as loyalty is the motivating factor for employment in the NFL...

 

[BritPat]

I think at this point, I wouldn't be that bothered if Mangini was rehired as DB coach.

He's a bloody good DB coach if anything else.

 

[harrylime70]

I think at this point, I wouldn't be that bothered if Mangini was rehired as DB coach.

He's a bloody good DB coach if anything else.

+1 to this

 

[BritPat]

+1 to this

H! How are you pal?

 

[gomezcat]

An emoticon was obviously needed

No, it wasn't. Being British was all that was needed.

 

[Joker]

I think the Loch Ness monster would make a helluva DB coach....SIGN THE BEAST!!!!

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I'm still holding out hope for the return of the much esteemed Eric Mangenius...






(wait, do I need an emoticon for that one too?)

Mangini would be an excellent coach, but how many people here would even talk to someone who you brought up from nothing, taught him everything you know, and then not only turned around and left, tried to take much of your staff with him, and then stabbed you in the back and publically humilated you????

anyone, anyone??

Mangini ruined his caoching career, I doubt that anyone would hire him to be an assistant. He might get another HC job, but I doubt anyone would bring him on their staff. You would have to think, if he would do that to BB, the guy who made him, what would he do to me??


The Mangenius is NOT coming back, you can etch that in stone.


Now if KC is dumb enough not to make RAC their HC< I say bring him back in a heartbeat!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Watching the secondary this season it is clear that there is a serious coaching issue at corner. Everyone but Arrington's issues this season look to be poor coaching. Bad understanding of receivers, sloppy technique, unrefined hand play, all of this points towards coaching issues. I think this issue is further compounded by the lack of continuity the corners have with the safeties. I believe that there's a difference between having poor talent and poor talent executing poorly. We're seeing the latter.

I think the defense in general is dangerously thin in coaching. Compare the development of the defensive line and linebackers to the corners. While players coached by Johnson and BB have developed nicely, the corners have developed Arrington and rookie year McCourty. This feeling is further backed by the simplistic schemes being run this year compared to last. Compared to last years polymorphic coverages, this years are simple cover-1, 2 and 3. The only thing I can say in defense is that they finally scrapped that cover-4.

I think that there is a need for an additional veteran coach, and another talented mind. Spagnoulo is going to become available, and adding a respected, creative coach with experience at every position is needed. Not only will adding Spangoulo assist in developing players, he will help to develop the younger coaches as well.

So, uh, I guess flame away but I'm going to bang the drum for Spagnoulo until he signs with another team and turns their defense around.

This is practice squad drivel. I guess X's and O's isn't just your forte. It would be nice to have a better sense of who the coaches are and what they are capable of. It might even be helpful to have more veteran presence on the coaching staff. But the fact remains that Bill prefers to groom young talent within his system - just like someone groomed and developed Spagnolo, and this season with the lockout it was basically on the players to work on their game. Arrington did, McCourty somehow didn't. Perhaps that pro bowl nod as a rookie did him in. And he certainly didn't anticipate the situation he'd find himself in playing with ST'ers at safety. An infusion of coachable talent at the position would help more than any addition of mere coaching expertise. And having an offseason to work with the talent would help, too. I doubt Spags could make chicken salad out of chicken ****, which is what the young staff here has been asked to attempt to do all season.

I remember when Capers came in and all the fanboys predicted great things for this secondary and all manner of aggressive scheme changes. Never happened. Capers was here as a favor to a friend who was down and out after poor performances in Houston and Miami. He couldn't get a job as a coordinator and Bill brought him in to rehab his image. It's kind of like the situation with Reese who negotiates contracts and manages the cap here despite some pipe dreams of how he impacts drafts and FA... Floyd is probably still hoping for a another shot as a GM but no one is interested. Dom lucked out and landed in a situation where what he does really is of little significance given the way GB's offense is performing.

Spags HC career was launched based on his association with Jimmy Johnson (kinda what launched Andy Reid's overhyped career too) and specifically the one game performance of one team whose defense was built to rush the passer and still needed a horseshoe up it's offense's ass to win that game. As that roster fell apart as they often do his impact wasn't nearly as impressive so he grabbed for the brass ring while it was still dangling. St. Louis made a mistake tapping him as their HC and they've sucked on both sides of the ball, and now he will go back to being a DC with one of his mentors in the hope that they have assembled sufficient talent to afford him a second chance to parlay success as a Jimmy Johnson 4-3 blitz happy coordinator into a HC'ing position... He will be the HC in waiting at either choice although the Giants position is likely closer to fruition.

Meanwhile we are likely headed back to the base 3-4 defense Bill has preferred to run for most of his career with another draft class and full FA and offseason to implement it.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I'm all for it, but would he accept any lesser role than DC? Why not just make him DC?

And I wonder how well Capers would've worked out if we actually had talent in the secondary. Our top 3 CB's that year were Hobbs, Wilhite, and Deltha O'neal

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm all for it, but would he accept any lesser role than DC? Why not just make him DC?

And I wonder how well Capers would've worked out if we actually had talent in the secondary. Our top 3 CB's that year were Hobbs, Wilhite, and Deltha O'neal

Um...because he runs a totally different base system and scheme than Bill does that would require a lot different not to mention more talent??

I guess if we had more talent in the secondary we wouldn't need to ask the question... although they actually have more talent in GB and he isn't doing much more with it than the scrub coaches here are doing with a lot less...

 

[patfanken]

Ah. I'd welcome him back!

Really, and what is it about the GB defense that fills you with awe and wonderment. They are just a click behind us, and they aren't using Brown and Iheadabu as their primary S's with 2 WRs as back ups. They didn't lose their primary rusher and have several all pros playing D.

I know why our defense sucks - Take away BOTH starting safeties,(Barrett, Chung) TWO of your 4 primary CBs (Boddin, Dowling), LOSE your 2 best interior pass rushers for most of the season (Pryor, Wright) HAVE your primary rush LB out for most of the season.....among others like your best pass rusher, and guess what.....your defense might just suck.

Hey James Iheadabu is a fine special teamer and a decent 4th S. Sergio Brown isn't even close to THAT good. These have been your 2 primary safeties for the bulk of the season. Still shocked that we might be having a problem in coverage

Jay, I can see your point. However if I wanted to critique a coach I'd complain about the technique work that's been done with McCourty. His press coverage techniques, his constant inability to get his head turned around, are all reoccurring problems I find troubling as an ex-coach. I don't find these problems to that extent with Arrington, which gives me a hint that the problem might be more on the player than the coach.

BB likes to bring his coaches up through his own system, starting from gofer, to quality control (film breakdowns), to on field assistant to the position assistant, position assistant, and coordinator. Bringing in an experienced guy like Capers with his own philosophy was an anomally, and from its one year duration, one that didn't work out great. Its a great system and one of the reasons why the Pats are universally considered a "well coached" team.

One a small note, I'm hoping that a full off season for McCourty here in Foxboro will shake the rust off this sophomore technique slump. All the raw material is there, but the "refinements" haven't been improved on this year.

 

[fgssand]

I'm all for it, but would he accept any lesser role than DC? Why not just make him DC?

And I wonder how well Capers would've worked out if we actually had talent in the secondary. Our top 3 CB's that year were Hobbs, Wilhite, and Deltha O'neal

Talent?? Are you implying that talent has anything to do with the quality of play from our defense?

As PFK points out a few posts above, " Take away BOTH starting safeties,(Barrett, Chung) TWO of your 4 primary CBs (Boddin, Dowling), LOSE your 2 best interior pass rushers for most of the season (Pryor, Wright) HAVE your primary rush LB out for most of the season.....among others like your best pass rusher, and guess what.....your defense might just suck."

I really think it is as simple as that......our coaching is fine. As a matter of fact, to even be in this position (on the verge of #1 AFC seeding), is the best testament for a coaching staff i can think of, no matter what positional grouping anyone cares to analyze.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Talent?? Are you implying that talent has anything to do with the quality of play from our defense?

As PFK points out a few posts above, " Take away BOTH starting safeties,(Barrett, Chung) TWO of your 4 primary CBs (Boddin, Dowling), LOSE your 2 best interior pass rushers for most of the season (Pryor, Wright) HAVE your primary rush LB out for most of the season.....among others like your best pass rusher, and guess what.....your defense might just suck."

I really think it is as simple as that......our coaching is fine. As a matter of fact, to even be in this position (on the verge of #1 AFC seeding), is the best testament for a coaching staff i can think of, no matter what positional grouping anyone cares to analyze.

I don't know where you get the idea that i don't think the problem with our secondary is a personnel issue... can't BB and Capers both be great defensive minds?

That doesn't mean having another defensive mind on board can't help.

 

[goheels22002]

4) I think you missed the last 2 games where Patricia has done an outstanding job of adjusting on the fly. Particularly against the Broncos.

Adjusting on the fly against Denver is not an accomplishment against a QB who selects "Run Away! Run Away!" as his best option when the pocket collapses.

One would like to credit Rob Ninkovich for an NFL record -29 yard sack. The credit/blame goes to Tim Tebow. Put a skirt on him.

Spagnuolo would be an upgrade over these two neophytes.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Adjusting on the fly against Denver is not an accomplishment against a QB who selects "Run Away! Run Away!" as his best option when the pocket collapses.

One would like to credit Rob Ninkovich for an NFL record -29 yard sack. The credit/blame goes to Tim Tebow. Put a skirt on him.

Spagnuolo would be an upgrade over these two neophytes.

A review of Tebow's previous weeks would help you immensely. He tended to win games.

Not that WINNING and POINTS means anything to the clown section.

Just ack Kontradumbtion.

Besides, as someone mentioned, Spags was a Jim Johnson protege so Philly is the obvious fit. This also will provide the big "turnaround" if he wants another HC job.

Besides, the key for the playoffs is adjustments and executing gameplans.

And not turning the ball over.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I don't know where you get the idea that i don't think the problem with our secondary is a personnel issue... can't BB and Capers both be great defensive minds?

That doesn't mean having another defensive mind on board can't help.

When Capers was here in 2008, there were several reports that the relationship wasn't the best.

 

[SpiderFox53]

An emoticon was obviously needed

my guess would be this one

 

[PatriotsInGA]

Steve Spagnuolo

Word is he's getting canned after this season. Defensive coordinator possibly?

 

[SeanBruschi54]

Re: Steve Spagnuolo

What message would that send Matt patricia and pepper Johnson???


No chance.