Pats loss to Bills: pass rush discussion

[cavtroop]

Hanyesworth was not in which definitely was an impact. I did see some 3-4 and not a lot of blitzing. For a passing team that is the best type of defense to play against.

Not even the lack of blitzing - I don't remember seeing any stunting/shuffling etc by the DL? Maybe I just missed it as I wasn't paying particular attention to the DL.

 

[HowardRoark]

I would have loved that signing as well man. The fact of the matter is that the roster is, to be cliche, what it is. As it currently stands there is nothing they can do until they gel, people get healthy, and some concepts begin to be implemented. I'll hold off judgements until November, but as it stands right now this team needs to get creative up front and in a hurry.

I don't really know much about defensive schemes. What would getting creative up front entail?

 

[Joker]

pass rush????

I get a better "rush" when a take a squirt...

 

[Ring 6]

I posted this in another D thread, but that thread got completely derailed with name-calling and insults. So, here it is

I mentioned this in the game-thread. It seems to me that we're playing a straight up game play - 4 down lineman (or 3DL, and a down LB) rush the QB, CB play man, S play some kind of deep zone, and thats it. That seems to be the only call in the playbook. Maybe 10% of the time, send a 5th rusher.

We don't have the horses to get to the QB with our DL, especially with AH out of the game. I miss seeing those exotic fronts - pressure coming from unexpected locations, CB's blitzing, S blitzing while DE drop into coverage. We don't seem to do any of that this year.

I don't know if it's a philosophy change, of if BB doesn't think the kids out there are ready to run that level of gameplan. Regardless, I'd like to see ALOT more of it, as the results can't be much worse than they are now running what looks to me like a very very vanilla D.

A big part of the problem is that those schemes you are longing for are what we do when we make a team one dimensional, and mostly on 3rd and long. Today we didnt get to 3rd down much, and our run d has done nothing all season to think anyone will be one dimensional.

Frankly if you take away the last 2 drives, the defense wasn't that bad.
At 11:50 to go, we had allowed 17 points (with 3 turnovers committed) and had them pinned back on the 5.
What followed was 7 snaps that gained 174 yards (5 plays for 124 and 2 penalties for 50) of the worst clutch defense I have ever seen in my life. It took them 2:33 to run 7 snaps and go the length of the field twice.
If there is any silver lining its that the defense wasn't putrid for 60 minutes, but the puke stained lining is that it was the worst I have ever seen when it mattered the most.

 

[Ring 6]

If you're going to be effective playing with four guys in a three point you have to win on individual matchups. Right now they aren't winning the individual matchups. It's that simple in my mind.

The same can be said for the secondary. Pass rush and coverage winning individual battles goes hand in hand. They are either helping each other or killing each other.

 

[smg93]

Not even the lack of blitzing - I don't remember seeing any stunting/shuffling etc by the DL? Maybe I just missed it as I wasn't paying particular attention to the DL.

I was wondering about this too. Doing more stunting might actually make it tougher to stop the run (I could be wrong about this) but instead of this bend don't break style, I was hoping we could get more aggressive with the 4 man front to try to sack/hurry the QB even if it means that on occasion the other team has a big play. Either way, it's a quick stop by the D or the other team scores quicker.

This would suit me just fine because Brady and the O get back on the field quicker. I think we all have great confidence that Brady will put the ball in the endzone fairly consistently.

With this O, chances are we will have the lead at some point and with time trickling down, the other team will get more desperate with play calling and the attacking D will likely work even more.

Thoughts?

 

[Ring 6]

I was wondering about this too. Doing more stunting might actually make it tougher to stop the run (I could be wrong about this) but instead of this bend don't break style, I was hoping we could get more aggressive with the 4 man front to try to sack/hurry the QB even if it means that on occasion the other team has a big play. Either way, it's a quick stop by the D or the other team scores quicker.

This would suit me just fine because Brady and the O get back on the field quicker. I think we all have great confidence that Brady will put the ball in the endzone fairly consistently.

With this O, chances are we will have the lead at some point and with time trickling down, the other team will get more desperate with play calling and the attacking D will likely work even more.

Thoughts?

Have you been away? That is what we are doing, playing more aggressive, one gap man to man D.
Here is how it worked today.
We were up 7 with 1150 to go.
The Bills got 2 more drives, snapped it 7 times and moved 174 yards in 2:33 to win the game. It would suit you fine to give up more big plays? The best play we had in that 1150 on defense was a 12 yard gain, and the second best was a 15 yard penalty. Every play the Bills ran in those 2 drives, except the kneel downs resulted in a first down or a TD and their average play was 24.8 yards (including a 1 yard TD, 30.8 per play if you exclude that one, since, well 1 yard was the most they could get). Please don't ask for us to give up more big plays.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Frankly if you take away the last 2 drives, the defense wasn't that bad.
At 11:50 to go, we had allowed 17 points (with 3 turnovers committed) and had them pinned back on the 5.
What followed was 7 snaps that gained 174 yards (5 plays for 124 and 2 penalties for 50) of the worst clutch defense I have ever seen in my life. It took them 2:33 to run 7 snaps and go the length of the field twice.
If there is any silver lining its that the defense wasn't putrid for 60 minutes, but the puke stained lining is that it was the worst I have ever seen when it mattered the most.

After 3+ quarters, I though the Patriots D had played decent with the exception of the long TD drive given up in the second quarter (their other TD was a short field drive). The last 10 minutes lead up to what, as you accurately describe, was the worst clutch defense I have seen the Patriots play in a long time (including the collapse to the Colts a few years ago - that ranks second). Funny thing is just one play, like the fourth quarter penalty isn't called and the end zone INT stands, the Patriots probably win this game, and their isn't enough time for a collapse of this proportion.

The Patriot D, hopefully only for now, has to rely on the O scoring many points, chewing up the clock, making the opposing O feel the heat of "we must keep scoring". The plan worked the first two weeks and worked for nearly two quarters this week. The O couldn't keep it going (too many mistakes) and the D's weaknesses were painfully exposed. The Patriots simply don't have an alternate winning formula at present. And if they don't get a pass rush going, IMHO they won't have an alternate formula (how about the weather might slow down opposing passing attacks?). Fortunately the season is early and their is hope the D will improve.

Notes: I like what I'm seeing from Ridley. You got to believe more playing time is coming soon. Welker playing great. Gronkowski (with AH back soon!). OL has played good (better run blocking needed).

 

[smg93]

Have you been away? That is what we are doing, playing more aggressive, one gap man to man D.
Here is how it worked today.
We were up 7 with 1150 to go.
The Bills got 2 more drives, snapped it 7 times and moved 174 yards in 2:33 to win the game. It would suit you fine to give up more big plays? The best play we had in that 1150 on defense was a 12 yard gain, and the second best was a 15 yard penalty. Every play the Bills ran in those 2 drives, except the kneel downs resulted in a first down or a TD and their average play was 24.8 yards (including a 1 yard TD, 30.8 per play if you exclude that one, since, well 1 yard was the most they could get). Please don't ask for us to give up more big plays.

No I haven't been away. What I've seen a lot of though was that our Dlinemen were going straight up against OL's who were pretty much stoning them and giving lots of time to QB's like Fitzpatrick, Henne, and Rivers. I was wondering if stunting might help create some confusion on the other team's OL's which would create more pressure on the QB. The Bills and the Chargers got big plays because their QB's had ages before they had to throw. Haven't you seen that, or have you been away?

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Rather than simultaneous discussions on the same topic in multiple threads, why don't we keep the talk about the (lack of) pass rush by the Pats defense in one thread.

Once Cuningham gets on the field the pass rush will be fine. Ah, he was there yesterday? Freshman slum is running over into a sophmore slump I guess.

 

[Haley]

I was in a sports bar so it was hard to really see all facets. That said, it didn't look that bad to me. There was decent pressure. We do need AH back though. On several big catches, the DB's got not jams in the 5 yard zone. Something we need to work on.

The pass rush may not have been very good, but the DBs missing still needs to be part of the overall 'defensive issues' discussion. We very much need to work on that part of the game. All the pass rush in the world won't help us if the receivers are open.

 

[JackBauer]

Once Cuningham gets on the field the pass rush will be fine. Ah, he was there yesterday? Freshman slum is running over into a sophmore slump I guess.

Cunningham didn't have a freshman slump.

 

[borg]

This makeup of this D reminds of Shanahan's Bronco D his last couple years in Denver. Shanahan was desperate for D linemen and he brought in every young bust released by teams during their rookie contracts. BB has decided to build his D line with aging warhorses from teams unwilling to offer them a last contract in their twilight years. Just wondering how he will rebuild this grouping considering the woeful Safety and OLB play

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Cunningham didn't have a freshman slump.

Being invisable isn't a slump?

 

[Fencer]

I always thought Wright and Haynesworth were major question marks, but I don't think the roster was planned for Wright, Pryor AND Haynesworth to all be out.

Chung is probably our best blitzing DB -- although Arrington's occasional hand in the dirt makes we wonder whether he's only second best -- and he was out too.

This is about as purely dependent on conventional outside pass rush as it's going to get for us ...

... oops.

 

[JackBauer]

Being invisable isn't a slump?

Considering he wasn't "invisable," no, it isn't.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Considering he wasn't "invisable," no, it isn't.

I didn't mean it literally, I meant from a football perspective. I mean, one sack and a pressure over an 17 game season is as close to invisable in football as can be possibly imagined. Although, I did see him on special teams yesterday, he didn't do anything, but his number showed up on TV.

 

[JackBauer]

I didn't mean it literally, I meant from a football perspective. I mean, one sack and a pressure over an 17 game season is as close to invisable in football as can be possibly imagined. Although, I did see him on special teams yesterday, he didn't do anything, but his number showed up on TV.

Cunningham had one pressure last season? That's news to me.

 

[Deus Irae]

Does anyone have the blitz/3 man/4 man rush totals?

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Cunningham had one pressure last season? That's news to me.

J. Cunningham
2010 Season

2010 (15/10, 1/0)

Missed one game due to injury, playing in 15 with 10 starts. Recorded 41 tackles (27 solo), two forced fumbles, four quarterback hits, and one four-yard sack in his rookie campaign.
Played in his first career postseason game.
Forced a fumble by RB Peyton Hillis in the first quarter, which was recovered by Brandon Meriweather at the New England 36-yard line. Also recorded four tackles against the Browns (11/7)
Combined with Brandon Spikes to stop the Vikings' Adrian Peterson for a two-yard loss on fourth-and-goal from the one-yard line(10/31).
Recorded his first NFL sack when he forced QB Joe Flacco to fumble early in the second quarter against the Ravens (10/17). Made a career-high seven tackles including a stop of Ray Rice in the backfield for a 3-yard loss in the first quarter, setting up a Ravens third-and-9.
Made his first NFL start against the Bills, playing at outside linebacker and registering two tackles (9/26).
Played in his first NFL game in the season opener against the Bengals (9/12).


give him a pass on rookie year. Having said that, he is "Invisible" this year now approaching 1/4 of the season in the books.