PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

BJGE better than we thought:


Status
Not open for further replies.
No.

They drafted two RB's to replace 2 departing RB's.

Simple as that.

Not a chance. Since when do you spend a 2nd and a 3rd on guys you hope will be 3rd and 4th on the depth chart?
 
Man, you go on and on like a broken record.

Just how is 1000 yards, 13 TDs, and 0 fumbles, backup numbers??

A certain receiver had 82 catches and for 1,254 yards and 13 TDs in 2009. Despite this, I was adament that the receiver wasn't the same guy and the offense would be better if they went away from him. Most disagreed and pointed at the numbers in the same way you are now.

Sometimes, there is more to the story.
 
Last edited:
Not a chance. Since when do you spend a 2nd and a 3rd on guys you hope will be 3rd and 4th on the depth chart?

When you have those to players rated very highly in a weak draft class. The Pats tried very hard to shop the Mallet pick and completely bailed out of the 4th round.
 
When you have those to players rated very highly in a weak draft class. The Pats tried very hard to shop the Mallet pick and completely bailed out of the 4th round.

I don't buy it, but I've been wrong before. I guess we'll just wait until the games start to find out. :eat3:
 
Last edited:
I don't buy it, but I've been wrong before. I guess we'll just wait until the games start to find out. :eat3:

I hear ya, but we'll probably never know for sure. There certainly appears to be a focus on developing a smash mouth run game. On the other hand, BB was certainly trying to bail out of pick 74 and all of round 4. The answer may lie somewhere in the middle.
 
Not a chance. Since when do you spend a 2nd and a 3rd on guys you hope will be 3rd and 4th on the depth chart?

I don't think that's the correct way to interpret the draft. BB took what he thought was the best value at the given time- how many fans were howling when no pass rushers were taken until way later?
 
A certain receiver had 82 catches and for 1,254 yards and 13 TDs in 2009. Despite this, I was adament that the receiver wasn't the same guy and the offense would be better if they went away from him. Most disagreed and pointed at the numbers in the same way you are now.

Sometimes, there is more to the story.

You've just proven my point. The Pats got rid of that receiver who was definitely a homerun threat, and what happens? It made their game better, correct?

Now, some people are saying that BJGE isn't good enough to be our starting RB, we need a "homerun threat" back there? Where's the logic in that?

Like your example proves, having a homerun threat isn't really necessary, and sometimes can be counterproductive. I mean how exactly do you improve on 14-2? As a matter of fact, how did we get there in the first place?

I don't think BB is going to fix what is not broken.
 
Agree with Psycho....14-2 vs a tough schedule was incredible....the season didn't end the way we'd have liked...but the future looks very bright for this team....Youth has been injected and more talent added ....OL and RB positions should be set...sign Mankins...install Solder and Cannon....rotate Vereen and Ridley in and find the role Ras-I will play.....key vets coming back off IR....BOWL !! :D

I like what I am seeing....:rocker:
 
You've just proven my point. The Pats got rid of that receiver who was definitely a homerun threat, and what happens? It made their game better, correct?

Now, some people are saying that BJGE isn't good enough to be our starting RB, we need a "homerun threat" back there? Where's the logic in that?

Like your example proves, having a homerun threat isn't really necessary, and sometimes can be counterproductive. I mean how exactly do you improve on 14-2? As a matter of fact, how did we get there in the first place?

I don't think BB is going to fix what is not broken.

Wow, you've added a layer of interpretation that had nothing to do with my point to make it appear that it proves yours. I never once said anything about a "homerun threat".

To make it more accurate, reword it to say "complete player". Moss wasn't a complete player. He wasn't quick in his cuts and wasn't a burner any longer. He was useless in screens and couldn't run 2/3 of the routes NE likes to run. Even worse, he wasn't the double team buster who could outjump and outmuscle a double team for the ball, so his best attribute was in decline.

Benny is a fine runner. I can all but assure you that I was higher on Benny in 2009 and 2010 than 95% of this site. He always falls forward and his ability to read the traffic is phenominal.

But he is not a "complete player" and that absolutely does limit the effectiveness of the offense. Teams don't have to worry about the edges or his receiving. This presented itself on those key 3rd and shorts, and Benny also seemed to struggle whenever teams had success stopping NE's passing game.

I said before the draft that NE needed to get a complete running back and low and behold! They did.
 
I don't think that's the correct way to interpret the draft. BB took what he thought was the best value at the given time- how many fans were howling when no pass rushers were taken until way later?

I'd be more precise. It's not that they were the best value, it's that they would help the team the most over the four years they'd be under contract (I assume he doesn't worry too much about most players' second contracts-it's too far away to really analyze intelligently).

I'd be surprised if he thought Vereen and Ridley were the best four year options if he didn't think they would contribute much in 2011 but it's possible.

I'm firmly in the camp that Ridley and Vereen could take a bunch of carries from Woodhead/BJGE even if Woodhead/BJGE are both healthy all year long. There's a reason the Jets/Browns/Packers did well with a ton of defensive backs against the Pats even when the Pats were in 2 TE sets-it's that BJGE and Woodhead were only getting good yardage when they got carries and not the great yardage you'd like with heavy sets against light packages.
 
I don't think that's the correct way to interpret the draft. BB took what he thought was the best value at the given time- how many fans were howling when no pass rushers were taken until way later?

As I said before, I disagree. I'm willing to let time solve this one.
 
Wow, you've added a layer of interpretation that had nothing to do with my point to make it appear that it proves yours. I never once said anything about a "homerun threat".

Sorry but when you throw out those numbers, you are implying as such even if you weren't initially conscious of it. If all you wanted to point out was that Moss was breaking down, all you had to do was say so and prove that my point wasn't relevant

Benny is a fine runner. I can all but assure you that I was higher on Benny in 2009 and 2010 than 95% of this site. He always falls forward and his ability to read the traffic is phenominal.

But he is not a "complete player" and that absolutely does limit the effectiveness of the offense. Teams don't have to worry about the edges or his receiving. This presented itself on those key 3rd and shorts, and Benny also seemed to struggle whenever teams had success stopping NE's passing game.

I never said BJGE was a superstar, and I do agree that he is not a homerun threat, but I think he is a perfect fit for what this line does. This line under Dante executes some pretty complicated blocking schemes. I've been seeing more and more whams and 2nd level executions. When you throw in a RB that follows the game plan to the letter, and does his job, you are going to get consistent results and I would rather have that than have a series of misfires then a homerun

I said before the draft that NE needed to get a complete running back and low and behold! They did.

What's your point? I said the same thing, only because Taylor wasn't coming back and Morris was a reach to make roster

10chars..........
 
I'm firmly in the camp that Ridley and Vereen could take a bunch of carries from Woodhead/BJGE even if Woodhead/BJGE are both healthy all year long. There's a reason the Jets/Browns/Packers did well with a ton of defensive backs against the Pats even when the Pats were in 2 TE sets-it's that BJGE and Woodhead were only getting good yardage when they got carries and not the great yardage you'd like with heavy sets against light packages.

I don't disagree that Ridley and Vereen will take a bunch of carries away. BB has indicated his preference for RBBC.

In the three losses, two regular season, and one playoff, BJGE's average carries was in the single figures if I'm not wrong, something like 8 ,10, 9.

Jets/Browns/playoff Jets did well against us was because our playcalling was one-sided and unbalanced (pass-heavy) in those games.
 
Sorry but when you throw out those numbers, you are implying as such even if you weren't initially conscious of it. If all you wanted to point out was that Moss was breaking down, all you had to do was say so and prove that my point wasn't relevant.

Moss' 2009 numbers, while being very impressive on the surface, clearly didn't tell the entire story. I'm claiming that Benny's cummulative numbers don't either. Not sure what is so difficult about it. :confused2:

What's your point? I said the same thing, only because Taylor wasn't coming back and Morris was a reach to make roster

That's fine. Depth was obviously needed. I know I didn't have a monopoly on the desire to see a young RB come aboard. I'm just stating the opinion that NE felt their running game was too dependent on the passing for its success and that a more complete RB was part of the upgrade process. Time will tell if I am right or wrong.
 
Last edited:
I don't disagree that Ridley and Vereen will take a bunch of carries away. BB has indicated his preference for RBBC.

In the three losses, two regular season, and one playoff, BJGE's average carries was in the single figures if I'm not wrong, something like 8 ,10, 9.

Jets/Browns/playoff Jets did well against us was because our playcalling was one-sided and unbalanced (pass-heavy) in those games.[/QUOTE]

And why was it one-side and unbalanced? Because BB was an idiot who forgot to use his backs or because he didn't think before or during the game that BJGE/Woodhead have the ability to consistenly hurt Browns/early season Jets/playoff Jets/Packers? (And remember that BJGE/Woodhead did get carries in those games and they didn't do all that much with them)
 
Jets/Browns/playoff Jets did well against us was because our playcalling was one-sided and unbalanced (pass-heavy) in those games.[/QUOTE]

And why was it one-side and unbalanced? Because BB was an idiot who forgot to use his backs or because he didn't think before or during the game that BJGE/Woodhead have the ability to consistenly hurt Browns/early season Jets/playoff Jets/Packers? (And remember that BJGE/Woodhead did get carries in those games and they didn't do all that much with them)

Because BOB is new to the job, and you have to let him grow on the job. He is going to choke a couple more times before he gets better. McDaniels was the same in his first year or so.
 
Moss' 2009 numbers, while being very impressive on the surface, clearly didn't tell the entire story. I'm claiming that Benny's cummulative numbers don't either. Not sure what is so difficult about it. :confused2:

The advantage you had in judging Moss's performance was that you had previous seasons available for comparison, and thus could see him trending downward.

In BJGE's case, there is none. This is the first year he has had the full time job. So I am not sure how you are able to determine that his cumulative numbers "don't tell the entire story." How would you argue that he is presumably a flash in the pan.

In what way is he fallible other than not being able to rip off as many homeruns as you may wish he would? (Does 33 yards in the Packers game qualify as a homerun?)
 
The advantage you had in judging Moss's performance was that you had previous seasons available for comparison, and thus could see him trending downward.

In BJGE's case, there is none. This is the first year he has had the full time job. So I am not sure how you are able to determine that his cumulative numbers "don't tell the entire story." How would you argue that he is presumably a flash in the pan.

In what way is he fallible other than not being able to rip off as many homeruns as you may wish he would? (Does 33 yards in the Packers game qualify as a homerun?)

You are still trying to equate things in ways that I am not saying. I never said Benny is on a downward trend, and I certainly never said he was a flash in the pan. I'm honestly struggling to figure out why this is so hard to figure out, sometimes the numbers don't tell the whole story. Considering how team oriented football is, I thought this was a pretty self-evident concept.

And you keep going back to "homerun threat" which is a very small piece of the puzzle. Benny doesn't threaten the edges or as a receiver. I couldn't give a crap about an 80 yard run, I just want a RB who doesn't tip the offense's hand when he is in there, ergo the "complete back" that I've been saying all along. :confused2:
 
And you keep going back to "homerun threat" which is a very small piece of the puzzle. Benny doesn't threaten the edges or as a receiver. I couldn't give a crap about an 80 yard run, I just want a RB who doesn't tip the offense's hand when he is in there, ergo the "complete back" that I've been saying all along. :confused2:

Then please explain what you mean when you say BJGE doesn't threaten the edge. He had had some quality runs up the sidelines (e.g., Chicago, 2nd Jets game, Miami, et al), and in terms of receiving, he has the team's 2nd highest comp % behind Woodhead.

Also I don't see how you can argue that whenever he's in there, the D knows what's coming, because there have been plenty of play-actions, and a couple of flea-flickers. Also there was a double reverse that had Tate eating up quite a bit of real estate when all was said and done.
 
I'm honestly struggling to figure out why this is so hard to figure out, sometimes the numbers don't tell the whole story. Considering how team oriented football is, I thought this was a pretty self-evident concept.:

In what way does 1,000 yards not tell the "whole story"? Are you considering 1,000 yards an inferior number? If so, why couldn't our previous two running backs rack up that number behind essentially the same line (actually they had a healthy Neal). We had to go way back to Dillion before we could find another Patriot RB who had gone over 1,000 yards.

Also, I don't know about you, but when it comes to fumbles, zero is a nice round number that I like.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.


Wednesday Patriots Notebook 5/1: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Jerod Mayo’s Appearance on WEEI On Monday
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/30: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Drake Maye’s Interview on WEEI on Jones & Mego with Arcand
MORSE: Rookie Camp Invitees and Draft Notes
Patriots Get Extension Done with Barmore
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/29: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-28, Draft Notes On Every Draft Pick
MORSE: A Closer Look at the Patriots Undrafted Free Agents
Five Thoughts on the Patriots Draft Picks: Overall, Wolf Played it Safe
Back
Top