BJGE better than we thought:

[RayClay]

A lot of teams go with running back by committee, even if they have a primary RB. The problem with RB by committee, is some RBs, especially power runners, don't get cranked up until they have a number of runs under their belt.

Antowain Smith was like that. He tended to tippy toe a bit until he got his bell rung, then he got stronger as the game goes along. With shared carries, a runner like that loses a strong point.

This is a strength with BJ. He doesn't have a real high ceiling, but he runs as well from the first carry as later. If the other RBs can maximize the plays that highlight their skillset, we'll have something. A lot of it is mental. Faulk also hits the ground running.

 

[Patspsycho]

OK, I'm gonna defer to you on this, as I haven't watched that game in a few months and you obviously have a better understanding of what happened on that particular play than I do.

However, I still think my overall point stands. BJGE is a real nice player, and I think he can be a contributor to good teams, but he still has his limitations and if you rely on him too much those limitations will hurt your offense.

That, as much as anything, is why they drafted Vereen. They needed a player who could challenge the defense in a larger variety of ways than BGJE can. They needed an upgrade.

What exactly are those limitations?

 

[Professor Frink]

What exactly are those limitations?

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here, but have you been reading this thread? It's been stated several times that

1) He can not threaten the edges of the defense. Defenses can cheat to the middle and not worry that he will suddenly bounce it to the outside and outrun any LBs and turn the corner.

2) He is not a threat out of the backfield, other than catching 3 yard check downs. Once he catches it (rare) he isn't a threat to do much, as he doesn't have the quickness or elusiveness to be a danger in the open field.

Now these limitations do not take away from any of the things he does well (tough inside runner, great vision and instincts, never fumbles) but they do limit the ways the offense can threaten a defense.

 

[Patspsycho]

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here, but have you been reading this thread? It's been stated several times that

1) He can not threaten the edges of the defense. Defenses can cheat to the middle and not worry that he will suddenly bounce it to the outside and outrun any LBs and turn the corner.

2) He is not a threat out of the backfield, other than catching 3 yard check downs. Once he catches it (rare) he isn't a threat to do much, as he doesn't have the quickness or elusiveness to be a danger in the open field.

Now these limitations do not take away from any of the things he does well (tough inside runner, great vision and instincts, never fumbles) but they do limit the ways the offense can threaten a defense.

Neither am I trying to be a jackass here. Granted I am guilty of having blinders on from time to time.

But as I already pointed out, BJGE has clearly shown an ability to turn the edge on defenses- in more than a handful of games, he's made solid gains up the sidelines (e.g., Chicago, 2nd Jets game, etc.)

Now it may not be as often as you or anyone else wish, or as long as some people want those gains to be, but the ability is there.

Again the argument is not that BJGE is the answer to our prayers, or the second coming, but neither is he a "backup."

I've never seen a "backup" rack up 1000 yards and 13 TDs while starting only 11 games and averaging only 14 carries per game.

Have you?

 

[Professor Frink]

Neither am I trying to be a jackass here. Granted I am guilty of having blinders on from time to time.

But as I already pointed out, BJGE has clearly shown an ability to turn the edge on defenses- in more than a handful of games, he's made solid gains up the sidelines (e.g., Chicago, 2nd Jets game, etc.)

Now it may not be as often as you or anyone else wish, or as long as some people want those gains to be, but the ability is there.

Again the argument is not that BJGE is the answer to our prayers, or the second coming, but neither is he a "backup."

I've never seen a "backup" rack up 1000 yards and 13 TDs while starting only 11 games and averaging only 14 carries per game.

Have you?

For the record, I don't believe I ever used the word backup, and I think this is might be the source of our misunderstanding here. The way the NFL works, and particularly the Patriots, the term "backup" and "starter" don't mean a whole lot at certain positions. If BJGE is on the field the first snap of the game, but Danny Woodhead plays more snaps in the game, who is really the #1 back that day?

I'm not arguing BJGE is a backup or a starter, I'm talking about his overall role in the offense. There is a reason he only got 14 carries a game, and I think Belichick envisions using him even less, and that's why he drafted two more RBs.

I'm aware that he was a productive back last year, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that someone can be a limited player and still be productive in the right offense.

I think a good example to give you here is Brandon Jacobs. Now for the record, I'm not comparing the two players, because there are certainly some big differences, I'm just making a point about production.

Brandon Jacobs has run for 1,000 yards twice, but I bet there are 32 GMs that look at him as a limited player. At this point it's obvious to everyone Jacobs is limited because we have seen him as a pretty large contributor to the Giants' offense for four years now.

With BJGE it isn't as obvious, because we have only seen him for the one. I could be proven wrong, but ultimately I think he will prove to be a player who is better suited for a smaller role.

If we can't see eye to eye on that, it's fine. Time will have the final say on this.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

and I think Belichick envisions using him even less, and that's why he drafted two more RBs.

I'm not sure what it says about BJGE, relative to the fact that among RBs on the 53 last year, only Woodhead is under contract for 2011. . . .

 

[Patspsycho]

I'm not sure what it says about BJGE, relative to the fact that among RBs on the 53 last year, only Woodhead is under contract for 2011. . . .

He received a 2nd round tender. If any teams tries to sign BJGE, they will have to relinquish a 2nd round pick.

Taylor and Morris have not received any offer, as of yet.

 

[Deus Irae]

Here's a little something from Football Outsiders:

Green-Ellis had a 4.1 percent broken tackle rate, which ranked as the fifth-lowest percentage among running backs, according to Football Outsiders. Green-Ellis totaled 10 broken tackles in 241 touches (rushes and receptions).

Meanwhile, Woodhead had a 15.3 percent broken tackle rate, the fourth-best percentage among running backs, according to Football Outsiders. Woodhead totaled 20 broken tackles in 131 touches (rushes and receptions).

Broken tackle contrast for Pats RBs - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

The stat is subjective, so give this import depending upon how you feel about the site.

 

[BlueThunder]

I can see that stat with BJGE as he is a NS runner and usually is wrapped up by a bevy of tacklers where Woody is elusive, shifty and gets to the second level faster. Who cares if BJGE doesn't break alot of tackles....he usually gets the yards needed and seldom gets tackled for a loss...When he does break a long one, it's a bonus

 

[TruthSeeker]

Here's a little something from Football Outsiders:



Broken tackle contrast for Pats RBs - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

The stat is subjective, so give this import depending upon how you feel about the site.

Appreciate the data point.

 

[Frick]

He's downright tradeworthy now!

 

[BlueThunder]

This post isn't about BJGE directly, but it is about the RB's so rather than post a new thread, thought I'd put it here.

With the addition of Ridley's skill set, does BB get rid of the OL as lead blocker?

Also, isn't Eric Kettani a lead blocker/fullback in the mold of Ridley only heavier? When is Eric eligible to play...I believe he's Navy Reserve status...(as is WR Shun White)...

...when can they join in a TC and get a shot at making the roster?

Anyone that can shed light on this please chime in

 

[Professor Frink]

This post isn't about BJGE directly, but it is about the RB's so rather than post a new thread, thought I'd put it here.

With the addition of Ridley's skill set, does BB get rid of the OL as lead blocker?

Also, isn't Eric Kettani a lead blocker/fullback in the mold of Ridley only heavier? When is Eric eligible to play...I believe he's Navy Reserve status...(as is WR Shun White)...

...when can they join in a TC and get a shot at making the roster?

Anyone that can shed light on this please chime in

I think it's a long shot a guy makes the roster as an up back (FB). They might use a guy like Ridley or BJGE in that role occasionally, but that won't be why they are on the team.

The reason why is because I think Belichick thinks the only way a FB is worth a roster spot is if he's a really good one. Meaning he has to be a quality versatile player, not just a good lead blocker. He needs to be good in pass protection, can run routes, good hands, and viable on special teams.

There aren't a lot of guys like that out there, so he is more inclined to use the spot in a place he thinks could have a higher impact.

 

[Off The Grid]

I've said it before, and I'll say it, again:

Hyphen Boy is a SLUG.

My GRAND Mother could've picked up 4.5 YPC behind that Line.

And she's been DEAD for 20 years.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I've said it before, and I'll say it, again:

Hyphen Boy is a SLUG.

My GRAND Mother could've picked up 4.5 YPC behind that Line.

And she's been DEAD for 20 years.

Alot of teams should sign your grandmother then.

 

[Off The Grid]

I've said it before, and I'll say it, again:

Hyphen Boy is a SLUG.

My GRAND Mother could've picked up 4.5 YPC behind that Line.

And she's been DEAD for 20 years.

Alot of teams should sign your grandmother then.

Well, she IS Cap-Friendly.

 

[supafly]

Well, she IS Cap-Friendly.

20 yrs = too soon, OTG. It's just too soon still

BJGE is alright. I know a guy like you appreciates his work ethic, ability to come from an UDFA status to a 1,000 back etc. He doesn't put the ball on the ground--that's extremely underrated (maybe not here, but around the league). He doesn't mouth off, comes to work...does his job. Case closed. You are right, he does not possess a 'downhill' running style, and that is where some perceive his 'slug' status. He does move with power, and he is not hesitant, like some other unmentioned RB's that we have recently dealt with.

To each his own of course, there's plenty of players that you probably like that I don't think are all that great--so there's no use trying to persuade you, as your mind is made up. (And has been for awhile )

Just remember that a lot of posters on this board belittled him, downplayed his role here...we all heard about how he 'wouldn't even make the team,' not once, but TWICE. A very good poster even went as far as to remind me time and again that 'he was 5th on the depth chart,' and that we 'wouldn't even see him active on gameday' unless our first 4 RB's were injured...AND THAT WAS LAST OFF-SEASON!!!! There weren't many who gave him a chance, and all he did was go out and prove himself as a decent back here. On top of that, he played 1/2 a season sans Logan Mankins, so the 'great offensive line' excuse may not hold as much water as you may think. It seems to me that it was just as good as an offensive line as we've had many other years, and we hadn't had a 1,000 back since 2004 in Dillon.

Again, much respect to your opinion, but I don't think we're anyway close to getting rid of him at the moment, I suppose it's a couple of unproven draft picks that are getting some people excited? If they seem to do well and show promise, then I am all for it, but at the moment, I just don't see how it upgrades the team or the position by allowing him to walk/trade him etc.

We need him here for at least another yr, although he may be expendable with the promise of the younger backs.

 

[BlueThunder]

I have to say I was one of the doubters about BJGE. At the beginning of the season I was looking forward to a backfield with Taylor,Faulk and Morris......BJGE was just an insurance policy in case someone got injured (God forbid)......well, Taylor started out strong but then proved to be unlucky again.....Faulk went down and BJGE started opening some eyes with his steady but unspectacular work at RB.....Woodhead got signed and the Pats suddenly were on a roll.....

Now, with Taylor likely gone, and Faulk/Morris status unknown, it's up to the youngsters to provide a running game for the Pats......I don't think Patriot fans will be disappointed once they get acclimated to their assignments and OL.....BJGE and Woody will probably once again be the main backs with Vereen and Ridley easing into the offense as the season progresses..(assuming no major injuries)....Faulk remains the unknown while the 2 youngsters get a shot at ST work...JMHO

 

[supafly]

I have to say I was one of the doubters about BJGE. At the beginning of the season I was looking forward to a backfield with Taylor,Faulk and Morris......BJGE was just an insurance policy in case someone got injured (God forbid)......well, Taylor started out strong but then proved to be unlucky again.....Faulk went down and BJGE started opening some eyes with his steady but unspectacular work at RB.....Woodhead got signed and the Pats suddenly were on a roll.....

Now, with Taylor likely gone, and Faulk/Morris status unknown, it's up to the youngsters to provide a running game for the Pats......I don't think Patriot fans will be disappointed once they get acclimated to their assignments and OL.....BJGE and Woody will probably once again be the main backs with Vereen and Ridley easing into the offense as the season progresses..(assuming no major injuries)....Faulk remains the unknown while the 2 youngsters get a shot at ST work...JMHO

I'm fine with keeping BJGE for another yr, maybe longer depending on what we see from him this yr. I realize that he isn't the downhill burner that many want, but I also appreciate his strong work ethic, and 'underdog' role from UDFA to 1,000 yard back. Regardless of what happens at the position, I still believe that he offers a good role here, however he may feel that he is warranted more money based on his next upcoming season etc.

I was the complete opposite from you in regards to Green-Ellis. I was a strong supporter of him the past couple of years, and wanted him to see the field more. I have been in the midst of many Maroney/BJGE debates in the past 2 seasons.

Like I said, if we see good promise from the 2 youngsters and have some good luck with the injury situation for the position, then I am all for the strong possibility of making him expendable; but I am also of the thinking that we should offer him a 'fair' extension too, even if he has a quieter season statistically. I believe that these guys like Green-Ellis, Sanders, Ninkovich et al make up the 'team' concept that is so important here--specifically in New England, and on a Belichick coached team. Keep in mind that the team had 30% of its 53 man roster as UDFA's, to me that is amazing.

When it comes down to it, what more do we really want in a RB? Is it because we don't have a big 'name?' The chances of any RB on this team rushing for 1,200--1,300 yds is not too good due to the spreading out of the carries and specific role players. We already seem to have our lead back, at least for now, and he does a pretty good job of what is asked of him (IMHO). I realize that everyone will not agree, and that it is a controversial subject, I just am not sure why?

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I'm fine with keeping BJGE for another yr, maybe longer depending on what we see from him this yr. I realize that he isn't the downhill burner that many want, but I also appreciate his strong work ethic, and 'underdog' role from UDFA to 1,000 yard back. Regardless of what happens at the position, I still believe that he offers a good role here, however he may feel that he is warranted more money based on his next upcoming season etc.

I was the complete opposite from you in regards to Green-Ellis. I was a strong supporter of him the past couple of years, and wanted him to see the field more. I have been in the midst of many Maroney/BJGE debates in the past 2 seasons.

Like I said, if we see good promise from the 2 youngsters and have some good luck with the injury situation for the position, then I am all for the strong possibility of making him expendable; but I am also of the thinking that we should offer him a 'fair' extension too, even if he has a quieter season statistically. I believe that these guys like Green-Ellis, Sanders, Ninkovich et al make up the 'team' concept that is so important here--specifically in New England, and on a Belichick coached team. Keep in mind that the team had 30% of its 53 man roster as UDFA's, to me that is amazing.

When it comes down to it, what more do we really want in a RB? Is it because we don't have a big 'name?' The chances of any RB on this team rushing for 1,200--1,300 yds is not too good due to the spreading out of the carries and specific role players. We already seem to have our lead back, at least for now, and he does a pretty good job of what is asked of him (IMHO). I realize that everyone will not agree, and that it is a controversial subject, I just am not sure why?

I think people want a RB who can take control of a game, or is at least enough of a threat that the D must always focus on him when he is in the backfield.