NE is a different team with Weis and Crennel

[mtbykr]

Suffer from tunnel vision do we?

these are the same 2 coaches who both failed in their last job.

Hint ... it's all about the horses you get to race.

Speaking of tunnel vision....their last jobs were as head coaches. They have been very successful as coordinators. How does your argument make any sense?

 

[ctpatsfan1]

That is probably a very accurate statement.

With the offensive talent that the Pats have available this season, it would be fun tosee the variety of offensive schemes that Charlie would put together. He would have opposing defenses crying.

Romeo would be all over the asses of these young corners,and linebackers, and he would have this defense turned into a top three defense within a couple of years.

I hate to say this, but Belichick without Weis and Crenell is is like Parcells was without Belichick, average.

heh, yeah right, that's why he went 18-1 and was 2 minutes from a perfect season in 2007 with neither of them around. Do you people think before you post?

 

[RobAllan]

heh, yeah right, that's why he went 18-1 and was 2 minutes from a perfect season in 2007 with neither of them around. Do you people think before you post?

People hadn't adjusted to Moss or Brady throwing more deep passes in '07. Let's be honest, that wasn't a big part of the offense before. In fact, the knock on Tom used to be he couldn't throw the deep ball like Manning.

I think what has people irritated is that defenses have adjusted to this and we're still seeing Tom throw dangerous / easily intercepted balls on obvious out routes. Some people are blaming the "coordinator" for this, and so the assumption is that Weiss would be an improvement. I don't know if that's true, but I do know we wouldn't have seen a stupid decision bomb on 3rd and 2 if Charlie was still running the O. I'm a long-time fan, I love Tom, etc., but that play was unacceptable and I don't think we would've seen it if Weiss was at the helm again.

 

[captain stone]

heh, yeah right, that's why he went 18-1 and was 2 minutes from a perfect season in 2007 with neither of them around. Do you people think before you post?

I wouldn't hang my hat on that across-the-board debacle to make your point.
That's what I think.

 

[ctpatsfan1]

I wouldn't hang my hat on that across-the-board debacle to make your point.
That's what I think.

thanks for answering my question.

 

[ctpatsfan1]

People hadn't adjusted to Moss or Brady throwing more deep passes in '07. Let's be honest, that wasn't a big part of the offense before. In fact, the knock on Tom used to be he couldn't throw the deep ball like Manning.

I think what has people irritated is that defenses have adjusted to this and we're still seeing Tom throw dangerous / easily intercepted balls on obvious out routes. Some people are blaming the "coordinator" for this, and so the assumption is that Weiss would be an improvement. I don't know if that's true, but I do know we wouldn't have seen a stupid decision bomb on 3rd and 2 if Charlie was still running the O. I'm a long-time fan, I love Tom, etc., but that play was unacceptable and I don't think we would've seen it if Weiss was at the helm again.[/QUOTE]

no you would have seen a draw play to Kevin Faulk or a trick play like a reverse to Welker both which would have probably failed miserably against the best and fastest run D in the league.

I recall clearly all of the calls for Charlies firing because he ran stupid plays at the wrong times or how he needed to stop running plays he made up on Madden when it counted in a real game. It truely amazes me the how short of a memory fans have when things aren't like the 2007 season.

I know you didn't say it but to the poster that did, if you consider an 18-1 season a debacle you really are clueless. Was it disappointing to get that close and fail? Certainly, but having lived through the 70's and 80's as a fan of this team, 2007 was a magical season even with the SB loss to suggest otherwise is to not know your Patriots history.

 

[Sicilian]

People hadn't adjusted to Moss or Brady throwing more deep passes in '07.

So, just clarifying, when the Patriots do well now, it's because of the players and surprise. When they do poorly, it's because we don't have good coordinators anymore.

Just making sure I have my logic straight.

 

[UofApatsfan]

Having Weis woulda been huge. He loves finding ways to involve the tight end and he wants to establish a running game. I know some will point to how much his offense under achieved at Notre Dame last year, but he's said several times that calling plays from the field was a constant struggle for him and he saw things much clearer from the booth. The one Notre Dame game he coached from the booth was the one bowl game Notre Dame won with Weis when they scored 49 points. IMO, the offense is the side of the ball where we can actually blame the coaching staff (and/or Brady's terrible decision making but that's a separate issue) because the performance clearly hasn't matched the talent level for over a year now.

Defensively, not sure how much Crennel helps if at all. Having a young inexperienced secondary with its best corner out that makes Mark Sanchez look like Joe Montana a week after the Ravens' banged up secondary made him look like Rex Grossman isn't a problem Crennel, or anyone for that matter, would be able to solve. The talent level/lack of experience on defense matches its performance. There's really nothing on defense you can point to and say, "The coaching staff really screwed this up."

 

[Rob0729]

First, we need to stop living in the past.

Second, I doubt that there was ever a chance that RAC and Weis would ever come back. I know Felger and Mazz like to blast the Pats for not rehiring them, but it seemed like neither wanted to come back. Weis wants to be a head coach again and coming back and succeeding with Brady and Belichick will only enforce the belief that Weis is just a product of those two. He needs to be his own man. RAC also probably wanted to be in a position to be his own man and implement the system the way he wants to. Todd Haley is an offensive guy and probably gives RAC far more free range than Belichick or any defensive minded head coach would give him.

Third, we are two games into the year and one of the teams the Chiefs beat probably is one of the worst teams in the league. Matt Cassel has been horrid (244 yards, 1 TD, and 2 INTs in two games). The Chiefs are 18th in points scored and 30th in offensive yards. Defensively, they are 24th in yards allowed, but 8th in points scored (but they did face Saneca Wallace and no running game with Cleveland). It isn't like the Chiefs are firing on all cylanders and are most likely a fraud undefeated team.

I appreciate everything that RAC and Weis did for this team, but it is time to move on. They aren't here. We need to get over it.

 

[stinkypete]

Let me correct the title...

"NE WAS a different team with Weis and Crennel."

It's the past. You can't blame the front office for not bringing them back. Why does someone want to return to a job that they vacated. You just don't do that.

 

[UofApatsfan]

Let me correct the title...

"NE WAS a different team with Weis and Crennel."

It's the past. You can't blame the front office for not bringing them back. Why does someone want to return to a job that they vacated. You just don't do that.

Weis vacated the job to take his dream head coaching job. It's not like he went to go coach Notre Dame (the school he attended) because he didn't like it here. I'm sure Weis woulda preferred to come back here as the OC rather than be the OC on a rebuilding team.

 

[Triumph]

I've watched both Chiefs games this season, plus a lot of the preseason games as well. I also didn't say a word about Crennel and the defense. However, regarding Weis:

Without looking, can you name the KC TE or a WR? They have ***** at those positions. Defensively more than a few players, but the rest are basically a bunch of Jags.

An NFL messageboard is an awful example to make your point. There were threads on here to trade Brady when Cassel was playing pretty good.

 

[WelshPat]

I live near Houston and my friends aren't singing praises to the Texans DC right now simply because they're 2-0.

You need to tell your friend that there's nothing the DC can do with that secondary. Blaming the DC is just a cop out, I mean they start Eugene Wilson... They have a nice set of LBs and Mario Williams, not much else talent wise on defense...

 

[Triumph]

Let me correct the title...

"NE WAS a different team with Weis and Crennel."

It's the past. You can't blame the front office for not bringing them back. Why does someone want to return to a job that they vacated. You just don't do that.

Nobody is blaming anyone.

Just pointing out that NE is really lacking in the OC dept and perhaps BB has too much on his plate as DC and HC.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Let me correct the title...

"NE WAS a different team with Weis and Crennel."

It's the past. You can't blame the front office for not bringing them back. Why does someone want to return to a job that they vacated. You just don't do that.

**** Lebeau and that Pittsburgh defense seem to be doing just fine I'd say.

This team was better with real coordinators. That doesn't mean it's purely the coach's fault this year and that the personnel is fine, it just means the team was better with real coordinators.

 

[FCB02062]

...And in other news the sky is blue and grass is green

 

[captain stone]

I know you didn't say it but to the poster that did, if you consider an 18-1 season a debacle you really are clueless. Was it disappointing to get that close and fail? Certainly, but having lived through the 70's and 80's as a fan of this team, 2007 was a magical season even with the SB loss to suggest otherwise is to not know your Patriots history.

I wasn't referring to the whole season, just the SB loss.

I too lived through the 70s & 80s as a fan of this team; whenever those teams had success - 76 (until Ben Dreith), 78(until Fairbanks-to-Colorado was announced), 85(until the SB), 94, 96(until the Tuna escaped) - I seemed to better enjoy the ride back then - until it ended, usually in controversy. The 2007 season, however, began in controversy immed. after an encouraging win on Opening Day in NJ. The rest of the season was played under that cloud, make a shade darker after a game in Baltimore that many outsiders believe that the Pats won only through the help of the zebras.

2007 should indeed have been a magical season. Maybe living in Baltimore that year, even more removed from fellow Pats fans than in Hershey, has darkened my POV about it, but it wasn't nearly as enjoyable for me as it should've been. It was depressing to constantly read, hear & see the amount of vitriol spewed at us from every other part of the country. We were the most hated franchise in sports, just as we were on the way to perhaps accomplishing the greatest feat in the history of sports in this country.

No, it wasn't the whole season that was a debacle; it was just the SB.

 

[spacecrime]

Its true and its not doom and gloom.

In todays NFL it takes more than 1 guy to brain storm.KC will be 3 - 0 after next week large in part because of two ex NE Coordinators.

Who were our coordinators in 2000?

Who were our coordinators in 2007.

If it isn't doom and gloom, why are you flying off the wall after one loss, pretending that Charlie and RAC never were on the losing side of a game?

I love Pioli, RAC and Weis, but anyone who thinks the Chiefs will finish ahead of the Pats is loony.

 

[spacecrime]

I hate to say this, but Belichick without Weis and Crenell is is like Parcells was without Belichick, average.

We older fans remember 2007.

 

[UofApatsfan]

I think that Weis's ultimate dream was becoming an NFL head coach. For whatever reasons, he was available but there was not one NFL that made him an offer, for reasons we don't know.

If the Kansas City Chiefs end the season with a winning record, or even make the playoffs, it will be interesting to see if his name comes up again as a possible NFL head coach.

With that in mind, should BB decide to pack it in, which is not out of the realm of possibility (he just looks worn out) it would be interesting to see if he suggests Weis to Bob Kraft as his replacement.

Hopefully that doesn't happen. Weis is a good coordinator and play caller, but he's a terrible motivator and leader, evident by what happened at Notre Dame. He's way to friendly with his players and doesn't have nearly enough discipline and doesn't demand nearly enough accountability.