NE is a different team with Weis and Crennel

[Rob0729]

Let me correct the title...

"NE WAS a different team with Weis and Crennel."

It's the past. You can't blame the front office for not bringing them back. Why does someone want to return to a job that they vacated. You just don't do that.

This team was different also because the personnel was different and the league was different. The defense was bigger, slower, and more experienced back in the early parts of last decade. Now it is young and fast. The offense didn't have any real play making skills players (not counting Brady) other than Dillion in 2004. They just had solid players who Brady could elevate. The rules were more in favor for the defense than it is now. The 2003 Patriots would get flagged for a lot of the things they did back then if they were playing today.

We need to stop looking at the past. It is a different time, players, and league.

 

[stcjones]

Its true and its not doom and gloom.

In todays NFL it takes more than 1 guy to brain storm.KC will be 3 - 0 after next week large in part because of two ex NE Coordinators.

Agreed.....now we just have to get BB to comprehend that.....every legendary coach had GREAT assistants.....look at parcells and giants.....many of his assts went on to be great HC's....

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Hopefully that doesn't happen. Weis is a good coordinator and play caller, but he's a terrible motivator and leader, evident by what happened at Notre Dame. He's way to friendly with his players and doesn't have nearly enough discipline and doesn't demand nearly enough accountability.

Actually, Charlie is pretty caustic and demanding and often motivates by needling. Brady was able to take the whithering criticism. Drew not so much. I can only imagine the relationship he would have with our underapprecaited #1WR these days, because Charlie would not be inclined to sit idly by while the OC got blamed for playcalling us into defeat while the $9M diva dropped, bobbled, tipped, alligator armed or otherwise failed to complete 80% of the throws to him. Either those throws would diminish dramatically causing all sorts of other problems for the QB and the HC and maybe even the owner, or Charlie would sabotage the SOB because he wasn't going down on his hard fought reputational sword to cover for him... Charlie is a hard nosed bottom line guy. He's also got a large ego and is fairly defensive and not inclined towards personal accountability when the finger points towards him. He never really forgave Tuna for humiliating him.

RAC is a different cat altogether. He knows the system inside out, but he's not an innovator. The innovation came via Bill and Ernie. He's the relationship guy, the hugger, the motivator, the passionate DC who cares about his men and extolls them to make a play. Veteran players do tend to love that guy, although that doesn't always translate into wins. Didn't as a HC in Cleveland because he couldn't kick the divas there in the ass, particularly on offense, and he couldn't even make tough personal and personnel choices (like not backing the GM who was and would continue to screw him over with ownership). Would RAC be an improvement here? Possibly, although on a team this young his methodology bight backfire over time. Players like Merriweather whose ego battles the discipline inherent in this scheme don't always respond to anything short of a threat. Sometimes they don't ultimately even respond to that...

At the end of the day though both Charlie and RAC are trying to do one thing, run Bill's system in KC... Whether they succeed or fail will likely depend on whether the players Pioli has assembled for them represent sufficient talent and can execute consistently and whether or not Haley (who has serious ego and temperement issues) impatiently gets in their way in the process - or Pioli allows him to.

Neither one was coming back here because they are each on some level still seeking validation beyond being Bill's coordinators.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Without looking, can you name the KC TE or a WR? They have ***** at those positions. Defensively more than a few players, but the rest are basically a bunch of Jags.

An NFL messageboard is an awful example to make your point. There were threads on here to trade Brady when Cassel was playing pretty good.

Moeaki and Bowe off the top of my head. Moeaki was a kid I hoped we would draft because he can do it all provided he can stay healthy. Bowe is a first round diva with the dropsies... If they can get him to work on his game they could have something, if not they are coming up short. Oh, and they've got potentially one hell of a multi faceted weapon in McCluster.

 

[captain stone]

First, we need to stop living in the past.

Second, I doubt that there was ever a chance that RAC and Weis would ever come back. I know Felger and Mazz like to blast the Pats for not rehiring them, but it seemed like neither wanted to come back. Weis wants to be a head coach again and coming back and succeeding with Brady and Belichick will only enforce the belief that Weis is just a product of those two. He needs to be his own man. RAC also probably wanted to be in a position to be his own man and implement the system the way he wants to. Todd Haley is an offensive guy and probably gives RAC far more free range than Belichick or any defensive minded head coach would give him.

Fair points.

It's very poss. that I wanted them to return more than they wanted to return.

 

[Wolfpack]

The Patriots offense today is very strong, so I don't see them missing Weis. As for Crennel, I think their defensive shrotcomings compared to 5-10 years ago have to do more with no longer having Law, McGinest, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel and Seymour all in (or near) the prime of their careers than it does with losing Crennel.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

Actually, Charlie is pretty caustic and demanding and often motivates by needling. Brady was able to take the whithering criticism. Drew not so much. I can only imagine the relationship he would have with our underapprecaited #1WR these days, because Charlie would not be inclined to sit idly by while the OC got blamed for playcalling us into defeat while the $9M diva dropped, bobbled, tipped, alligator armed or otherwise failed to complete 80% of the throws to him. Either those throws would diminish dramatically causing all sorts of other problems for the QB and the HC and maybe even the owner, or Charlie would sabotage the SOB because he wasn't going down on his hard fought reputational sword to cover for him... Charlie is a hard nosed bottom line guy. He's also got a large ego and is fairly defensive and not inclined towards personal accountability when the finger points towards him. He never really forgave Tuna for humiliating him.

RAC is a different cat altogether. He knows the system inside out, but he's not an innovator. The innovation came via Bill and Ernie. He's the relationship guy, the hugger, the motivator, the passionate DC who cares about his men and extolls them to make a play. Veteran players do tend to love that guy, although that doesn't always translate into wins. Didn't as a HC in Cleveland because he couldn't kick the divas there in the ass, particularly on offense, and he couldn't even make tough personal and personnel choices (like not backing the GM who was and would continue to screw him over with ownership). Would RAC be an improvement here? Possibly, although on a team this young his methodology bight backfire over time. Players like Merriweather whose ego battles the discipline inherent in this scheme don't always respond to anything short of a threat. Sometimes they don't ultimately even respond to that...

At the end of the day though both Charlie and RAC are trying to do one thing, run Bill's system in KC... Whether they succeed or fail will likely depend on whether the players Pioli has assembled for them represent sufficient talent and can execute consistently and whether or not Haley (who has serious ego and temperement issues) impatiently gets in their way in the process - or Pioli allows him to.

Neither one was coming back here because they are each on some level still seeking validation beyond being Bill's coordinators.

Great post.
I'll add that what's missing from the organization may not be the X's and O's knowledge Weis and RAC bring, but their personalities.

 

[carolinatony]

if they would just stop trying to force the ball to moss all the freakin time they would be fine. i remember when the open man got the ball period.

That says it all. Brady used to throw to the open man.

 

[ctpatsfan1]

I wasn't referring to the whole season, just the SB loss.

I too lived through the 70s & 80s as a fan of this team; whenever those teams had success - 76 (until Ben Dreith), 78(until Fairbanks-to-Colorado was announced), 85(until the SB), 94, 96(until the Tuna escaped) - I seemed to better enjoy the ride back then - until it ended, usually in controversy. The 2007 season, however, began in controversy immed. after an encouraging win on Opening Day in NJ. The rest of the season was played under that cloud, make a shade darker after a game in Baltimore that many outsiders believe that the Pats won only through the help of the zebras.

2007 should indeed have been a magical season. Maybe living in Baltimore that year, even more removed from fellow Pats fans than in Hershey, has darkened my POV about it, but it wasn't nearly as enjoyable for me as it should've been. It was depressing to constantly read, hear & see the amount of vitriol spewed at us from every other part of the country. We were the most hated franchise in sports, just as we were on the way to perhaps accomplishing the greatest feat in the history of sports in this country.

No, it wasn't the whole season that was a debacle; it was just the SB.

you are entitled to your opinion however I will respectfully disagree. That SB was one of the greatest games I have ever watched unfortunately the outcome was disappointing.

As for being the most hated team, I say bring it on, all that means is that your team is at the pinnacle of success in this league. Look at the Jets this year, everyone hates them, why? because they yap a lot and because they are good.

2007 was a magical ride for me as a Patriot fan even with the SB loss, I am sorry it wasn't the same for you.

 

[hudlander]

Some have argued that Parcells without BB= BB without CW.

 

[Triumph]

We older fans remember 2007.

Funny

But, that season had it problems too. Remember when NE could not hold a lead vs Miami and Brady had to come back in and score more points?

 

[mgteich]

Aaaah, the days when the offense scored in the second half, and came back to score points!

Funny

But, that season had it problems too. Remember when NE could not hold a lead vs Miami and Brady had to come back in and score more points?

 

[Triumph]

Aaaah, the days when the offense scored in the second half, and came back to score points!

vs a bad Miami defense.

It seems like there is less scheming and more "We are Brady, Moss and Welker, try to stop us." Defenses know NE is going to pass the ball (like last season) and the Pats dont care.

The Pats "Bend dont break" Defense is busted. The Jets had a 75% success rate in the red zone.

 

[eagle eye]

I'd love to see Romeo back here but Weis I'm not so sure about. I think our offense has been better since he left.

 

[Rob0729]

Some have argued that Parcells without BB= BB without CW.

Well, that is ridiculous since the Pats went 18-1 and were one dropped INT or fluke helmet catch away from being 19-0 without Weis.