REPORT: Mankins' [Tender Offer] Reduced - was offered 7 mil per season

[IllegalContact]

No it isn't. Abrasive to me is someone being purposely contrarian designed to annoy more than one poster and on more than one occasion.

I question the Patriots FO all the time. Mankins conduct is ill advised because of what he and his agent has said and what's evidently transpired. The size of the contract is regardless when you consider that.

Smacks of farm boy crying moo to me to be honest.

maybe you're right. maybe the contract to mankins is a typical contract that included a decent ratio in terms of guarantees. in that instance, he is wrong.

the fact that bruschi responded to the issue the way he did does say something to the contrary though. just sayin'

everything we are talking about is largely speculation right now. there just seems to be too many 'experts' around here too eager to throw mankins off of a cliff.

 

[ausbacker]

maybe you're right. maybe the contract to mankins is a typical contract that included a decent ratio in terms of guarantees. in that instance, he is wrong.

the fact that bruschi responded to the issue the way he did does say something to the contrary though. just sayin'

everything we are talking about is largely speculation right now. there just seems to be too many 'experts' around here too eager to throw mankins off of a cliff.

There's no experts here throwing Mankins off the cliff without a reason. A reason like him questioning the Patriots organization in light of actually going beyond what was apparently promised to him. That makes Mankins the idiot to be perfectly honest.

 

[captain stone]

Often the patriots extend contracts with a year left on the contract. This siuation started last offseason. I think that the patriots knew then and now that they would not be interested in giving Mankins a contract that he would want to accept. Mankins wanted top dollar after a reasonable rookie contract. This doesn't seem to fit in to the patriot budget. The patriots lucked out and there was no CBA extension, so they have RFA rights to Mankins.

The patriots and Mankins had discussions over a year ago. We don't know the details, only that Mankins thought that the patriots would indeed come up with an acceptable contract. There was absolutely no reason to trust the word of management. The nfl is a business after all.

Mankins watched lots of folks get extensions and new contracts. He thought that he was valuable to the team and waited as Kraft had asked. He waited through the 2009 offseason and season (some like Seymour and Branch made there move at that point in their contracts). He waited through the 2010 offseason up until the draft. Of course no one made offers under the RFA (no one ever does; isn't collusion great). The patriots didn't draft a guard and had him wait some more. He waited some more.

And the time finally came for the patriots to give him an offer and the patriots did not come up with what Mankins expected, or anywhere near what he expected (I expect tha the biggest issue is guaranteed money) . The problem is that Mankins expected much more from the patriots and was disappointed. And then the patriots chose to reduce their 2010 offer to $1.5M. This was the CHOICE of the patriots. They could have left the original tender offer on the table. The patriot undertand that the chances of Mankins playing the 2010 season as he has played the last four after the current offer is exactly ZERO. The patriots understand that there will be some reaction and loss of practice, games and effort from Mankins if he plays for $200K per game. The patriots made their choice. And the situation is now clear.

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Mankins was disappointed and pi$$ed off. He should have known better. Perhaps he did, perhaps he didn't. In any case, talking to the public doesn't seem at all an unreasonable tactic at this point.

The probability of his being traded and having a better long term contract seems much more likely than before his public statements.

It is just that we posters need to understand that Mankins will get his contract elsewhere, this year or next. WE POSTERS should ahve understood that for at least a year. It is only the lack of a CBA extension that give us any reason to have Mankins on the team for one year. There was always little chance beyond that. There are teams willing to pay $8M a year for a guard and give him considerable guaranteed monies. The patriots are not one of those teams.
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The very sad bottom line is that we discussed this over a year ago. It seemed then and now that it was very unlikely that the patriots would pay the "outrageous" amounts that Mankins might get from some other team. It seemed likely then and now that Mankins would go somewhere else in 2011. The ONLY question, then and now, was whether the patriots would come to a one year accomodation with Mankins or whether they would trade him. That is still an open question.

Posters here seem not to understand the basic negotiation tactics within the NFL. Mankins is using one of the only tactics at his disposal at this point, after the threat of a reduction in tender offer.
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THE REALITY

Mankins has no contract. He doesn't want to play for the patriots long-term, given the value the patriots put on him. And the patriots offer for one year is $1.5M. The patriots have made their position clear.

And everyone here is upset when Mankins has chosen to do the same. Unless there is special 2010 CBA rule (which someone thinks there is), we can expect to see Mankins on the Practrice field after the 2010 trade deadline. If he needs to report earlier he will, and will then later walk out or not participate in other ways).

No one seems upset with the patriots for trying to get Mankins for $1.5M for his 2010 services. And we shouldn't be upset. The team thought it was worth a try. Perhaps Mankins is really a no-nothing farm boy and the "big" city rubes from Bosten can get him to play at an all-pro level for $1.5M for his last year. And then again, perhaps Mankins has an agent, a union, and better advice then to be in camp now, agreeing to play for $1.5M (or even $3.4M) for the 2010 season.

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I can agree with the general sentiment of the post, but I still do not agree at all with the part I bolded. Unless Mankin$ has proof - or at the very least is much more specific - then talking in generalities about "keeping one's word", etc. rings very hollow to me.

 

[captain stone]

Are we now thinking that the patriots give honest statements with regard to the details of negotiations? Why would you think that any public statements made by the parties in a negotiations are truthful?

I'm not asking if Bill lied to us; he hasn't said anything at all about the situation.

I'm asking if Bill lied to Mankin$, or if Mankin$ is lying to us now.

 

[captain stone]

it doesn't matter. both have their own goals. in the NFL, the ends almost always justify the means

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[mgteich]

I would expect a little of both. I would certainly not expect Bill to tell Mankins the truth with regard to team plans last year. I would fully expect Bill to lie to Mankins. And I also see no reason for Mankins to tell the public the whole truth now.

I'm not asking if Bill lied to us; he hasn't said anything at all about the situation.

I'm asking if Bill lied to Mankin$, or if Mankin$ is lying to us now.

 

[IllegalContact]

There's no experts here throwing Mankins off the cliff without a reason. A reason like him questioning the Patriots organization in light of actually going beyond what was apparently promised to him. That makes Mankins the idiot to be perfectly honest.

you mean that APPARENTLY makes Mankins an idiot. Otherwise, you are throwing him off the cliff without a reason.

my biggest questioning of the front office in this one has to do with the perception of Mankins as a person prior to this contract negotiation. He has always been pegged as a high character guy who was very upfront and bottom-line oriented. I am not going to dispell that perception based on a bunch of hearsay

 

[IllegalContact]

That doesn't answer my question.

there is no answer, so don't ask the question

 

[ausbacker]

you mean that APPARENTLY makes Mankins an idiot. Otherwise, you are throwing him off the cliff without a reason.

my biggest questioning of the front office in this one has to do with the perception of Mankins as a person prior to this contract negotiation. He has always been pegged as a high character guy who was very upfront and bottom-line oriented. I am not going to dispell that perception based on a bunch of hearsay

What part of Logan Mankins calling the Patriots organization liars and not true to their word for not addressing his contract and then his agent saying the contract is not acceptable don't you understand? Do you even realize what that means?

You're an all time spud.

 

[mgteich]

SOME BOARD REQUIREMENTS FOR BEING AN IDIOT
1) any player who even suggests that it may be reasonable for them to play long-term elsewhere than Boston
2) any player who does not accept the fair (any offer made) offer of the patriots
3) any player who openly questions the management of the patriots

Have I missed anything?

There's no experts here throwing Mankins off the cliff without a reason. A reason like him questioning the Patriots organization in light of actually going beyond what was apparently promised to him. That makes Mankins the idiot to be perfectly honest.

 

[IllegalContact]

What part of Logan Mankins calling the Patriots organization liars and not true to their word for not addressing his contract and then his agent saying the contract is not acceptable don't you understand? Do you even realize what that means?

You're an all time spud.

I understand it all just not sure why that makes him an idiot. Maybe the pats ARE liars. I know that would be very hard for you to take, but I would not put it past any front office in the NFL.

I know regarding the pats, the voice of reason is tough for you, but you should try it.

 

[IllegalContact]

SOME BOARD REQUIREMENTS FOR BEING AN IDIOT
1) any person who even suggests that it may be reasonable for them to play long-term elsewhere than Boston
2) any person who does not accept the fair (any offer made) offer of the patriots
3) any person who openly questions the management of the patriots

Have I missed anything?

I fixed it. Group-think is all the rage here

 

[bresna]

Can anyone find one or any of the stories that came out when Mankins was drafted? I seem to remember that there was some questions about his surgically repaired knee(s?). If his knee(s?) are questionable, we may know why both sides are acting they way they are. Mankins may know "this is it" for him and that he has to make this next contract his best and the Patriots may know "this is it" and that Mankins is going to start the inevitable physical decline.

 

[Deus Irae]

Now who's reading into statements. How is anything Teddy said disconnected from what "many in the fan base" have stated? There isn't a huge contingent here that think he will be coming back to the table or that don't realize that Mankins feels insulted.

I can only assume that this is a joke post that fell flat.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think a lot of people get it: the man felt insulted by the Pats, so he insulted the organization back and burned his bridges. Nothing wrong with that I guess
......except maybe that Mankins is in total denial about the reality of the situation he found himself in. Oops.

Sadly, it's all too many of the Patriots fans that are in denial.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Sadly, it's all too many of the Patriots fans that are in denial.

Nah, only the contratian for contrarian sake contingent is in denial, as usual.

 

[BSR]

you mean that APPARENTLY makes Mankins an idiot. Otherwise, you are throwing him off the cliff without a reason.

my biggest questioning of the front office in this one has to do with the perception of Mankins as a person prior to this contract negotiation. He has always been pegged as a high character guy who was very upfront and bottom-line oriented. I am not going to dispell that perception based on a bunch of hearsay

I called you out on this before and you deflected it by calling Belichick a cheater. Where does this Mankins high character guy stuff come from? I've never had the perceptions that he is some upstanding team leader. I've always thought of him a some mean and nasty lineman that mostly kept quiet, which is why I liked him. That doesn't mean he is some good guy.

 

[BSR]

I can only assume that this is a joke post that fell flat.

Why even bother responding. Obviously you can't refute it.

 

[BSR]

I understand it all just not sure why that makes him an idiot. Maybe the pats ARE liars. I know that would be very hard for you to take, but I would not put it past any front office in the NFL.

I know regarding the pats, the voice of reason is tough for you, but you should try it.

Sigh...the reason that people are criticizing Mankins is because he was the one that chose to speak. If he didn't chose to air his dirty laundry I'm sure there may have been a few fans that would have resented him for his hold out but I think most would have understood. Many didn't expect him to sign a long term deal to begin with. But instead he chose to come out and speak. Well guess what? That means everything he says is fair game. As the only side speaking out in this situation he gets to lay out his side of the story fair and square. And based solely on his words, his gripe doesn't hold much water. So if he wanted people to sympathize with his situation, maybe he should have been more clear. Unless of course there was really nothing more than what he stated.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

SOME BOARD REQUIREMENTS FOR BEING AN IDIOT
1) any player who even suggests that it may be reasonable for them to play long-term elsewhere than Boston
2) any player who does not accept the fair (any offer made) offer of the patriots
3) any player who openly questions the management of the patriots

Have I missed anything?

I've often wondered what Ian's requirements for being a moderator here are...mostly when you post about the organization but occasionally other MODERATors get into circular pissing matches and start insulting other members intelligence.

If would be enlightening if after a decade we could name a former player who did reasonably well long term elsewhere than Boston...

Nobody ever said life would be fair. I thought that Adam deserved more than an unguaranteed contract to be the highest paid player in the league for as long as he could earn it. So did Polian. Hasn't worked out so well past year 1. Maybe Bill had a better grasp of what fair was where both sides were concerned. You can't pay for past performance, only future performance based on the belief there is no legitimate reason to question whether past performance will continue. Not sure Bill has swung and missed on evaluating any former player. Milloy, Givens, Branch, Willie, Vrabes, Samuel, Seymour, crap even Izzo... He sees them daily in practice as well as reviews coaches film on them knowing what they were supposed to do and how other performances impacted what they ultimately did. The jury may remain out on Samuel and Seymour, but not for long.

It's not a players place to openly question management, let alone management with this level of resume. A players job is to do his job as coached and play. Brady has always accepted and understood that, even as he reluctantly, emotionally mourns his lost teamates. He gains comfort and perspective from his ring collection and his pre retirement lock on a pedestal in Canton.

Just admit it mg. You may be a fan of this team, it takes all kinds, but you also resent the hell out of this organization on multiple levels to the point that you believe anyone who doesn't is an idiot.

A poster over on the planet includes a Kevin Faulk quote in his sig:

“That just goes to show you how emotional I am about playing here, being here, and understanding what it means to be a Patriot,” Faulk said. “I was talking with David Patten this morning, and we were talking about other guys who left the organization . . . and speaking with those guys, they always say, ‘Kev, it’s not greener on the other side of the fence.’ Listening to those guys, I know I’m in a great situation, I’ve been here, I know what’s going on. That’s why I’m here."

Awesome perspective there. Too bad Mankins wasn't around when they were sharing it.