The Vince Wilfork situation (merged)

[RobertWeathers]

I see about zero chance that Wilfork sits out. In fact, his age makes it more likely he won't since he is closer to the end of his career than Asante is and cannot afford to lose a year. Add to the fact there could be a work stoppage in 2011, he might be almost 31 by the time he gets a new deal and that will significantly hurt his value.

There is a reason the last time a franchised player sat out during the regular season was back in the 90s. Wilfork is not going to give up the $7 million with the prospect of not getting a new deal as late as 2012. Is he really going to gamble that he will have to wait two years for a long term deal and potentially have a much diminished value? I doubt it.

Franchising Wilfork may irrepairably destroy the relationship with him and the team, but there is little to no chance that he won't play in 2010. He can't afford to sit out. Maybe if he was 26, he might do it. But time is ticking for him to get a long term deal and he cannot leave money on the table.

Agreed. There is no way he sits out. I guess if I were in his shoes, from a financial standpoint, as long as he was smart with his money he is already in a good position long-term. By banking $7m (assume $4m after taxes) he'll be set for life (assuming he doesn't blow the dough) and life to fight another day for a big pay-day or play till hes 34ish and make another $15-$20m.

It's amazing how incredible the 6-year contract had on his wallet.

 

[Jackson 2]

He'll get tagged. It may have happened already this morning.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Driving back from one of my meetings today, I heard Dale Arnold on WEEI say that the Patriots offered Big Vince, in October, a long term deal with $20 - $23 mil in bonus money. Arnold said that he heard that on Comcast SportsNet last night. Big Vince turned it down.

 

[JSn]

Driving back from one of my meetings today, I heard Dale Arnold on WEEI say that the Patriots offered Big Vince, in October, a long term deal with $20 - $23 mil in bonus money. Arnold said that he heard that on Comcast SportsNet last night. Big Vince turned it down.

Sounds like a sure tag-and-trade situation.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Driving back from one of my meetings today, I heard Dale Arnold on WEEI say that the Patriots offered Big Vince, in October, a long term deal with $20 - $23 mil in bonus money. Arnold said that he heard that on Comcast SportsNet last night. Big Vince turned it down.

Hmmmm. Who said it on CSN? What was the length of the deal? How was the bonus to be paid out?

If this is true, I am not hopeful in the least that VW stays...

As the other poster said, Vince signs the tag and gets packaged.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It was Tanguay, who is connected in some instances because he's a player toady, but he's also a guy who mis speaks more often than not. Likely he didn't have any details and those can make a difference. That said Jonathan Kraft has openly stated that they have been negotiating off and on for a year now and they just aren't finding that middle ground at a time when the team is more intent than ever to not make a costly contract mistake given the unknown in a new CBA. Tanguay has also said Vince wants Haynesworth money - not sure where he's getting that information or if again it's just an assumption he makes...

The team might have been more inclined to give Vince more in 2009 than they will be in 2010 because of losing a year to amortize the deal into the end of the rookie deal like they did with Seymour (effectively making his AAV drop from $10M which is what the three year extension was for to $8M averaged over the 4 years the deal encompassed including that final rookie deal year). Not to mention now they may not have a second year in which to expect to benefit from it due to a potential lockout...

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Sounds like a sure tag-and-trade situation.

No one is giving two #1 draft picks for Vince...Sorry,he is very good but no way worth all that.

 

[Rob0729]

It was Tanguay, who is connected in some instances because he's a player toady, but he's also a guy who mis speaks more often than not. Likely he didn't have any details and those can make a difference. That said Jonathan Kraft has openly stated that they have been negotiating off and on for a year now and they just aren't finding that middle ground at a time when the team is more intent than ever to not make a costly contract mistake given the unknown in a new CBA. Tanguay has also said Vince wants Haynesworth money - not sure where he's getting that information or if again it's just an assumption he makes...

The team might have been more inclined to give Vince more in 2009 than they will be in 2010 because of losing a year to amortize the deal into the end of the rookie deal like they did with Seymour (effectively making his AAV drop from $10M which is what the three year extension was for to $8M averaged over the 4 years the deal encompassed including that final rookie deal year). Not to mention now they may not have a second year in which to expect to benefit from it due to a potential lockout...

It would be foolish to think that Vince and his agent aren't looking for Haynesworth money. Why wouldn't he? If you were up for a new contract and a guy who does the same job as you was getting something like $14 million a year and $41 million in guarantees, would you negotiate looking for $9 million a year and $25 million in guarantees. Vince might be willing to settle for less, but I seriously doubt he isn't using Haynesworth's contract as the comparison for his contract demands.

Now whether Tanguay has real information on this or not is another question, but is only logical to expect that Wilfork is looking for around $12 million or more a year and $30-40 million in guarantees. That is the market because Daniel Snyder is a moron.

 

[Rob0729]

No one is giving two #1 draft picks for Vince...Sorry,he is very good but no way worth all that.

Why not? With so many teams using the 3-4 and so few 3-4 NTs, there could be a bidding war for Wilfork. Out of the division, I can name the following teams that could use Vince to anchor their 3-4 - Denver, KC, Pittsburgh (although they don't get into free agency very often), maybe Cleveland depending if Shaun Rogers comes back from injury (although Belichick isn't going to rush to trade to Mangini), and San Fran. In division, the Dolphins and Bills definitely need a NT and the Jets might.

I think the Pats can get more than they got for Cassel. Cassel was still a bit of an unproven commodoty while Vince isn't. To run the 3-4 effectively, you need a good to great NT. Most the teams running the 3-4 don't really have one.

 

[primetime]

No one is giving two #1 draft picks for Vince...Sorry,he is very good but no way worth all that.

They wouldn't have to. That's why you trade him.

 

[HarkDawg]

No one is giving two #1 draft picks for Vince...Sorry,he is very good but no way worth all that.

if he has a superb/solid yr.....

I can see a 1 and 3 or a 1 and 2 .... this 2 would be of another yrs draft

 

[MoLewisrocks]

They wouldn't have to. That's why you trade him.

Never ceases to amaze me that year after year people don't get this straight in their heads... The tag price is for a direct signing to an offer sheet that you decide not to match. The trade price for a tagged player is whatever you can get or are willing to settle for...

If they exclusive tag him it will be a clear sign they hope to retain him (what Polian did with Freeney). If they non exclusive tag him they are open to offers HE essentially brings them, although unless they get one pre draft I wouldn't listen because they need to replace him for 2010 if he's not going to be here long term. I've often wondered if Asante was available and there just weren't any takers willing to trade enough to replace him so they played him...

 

[Rob0729]

Wow! Felger who always trashes the Pats over the players on contract negotiations just said that his sources has told him that the Pats have made "a good faith offer" and offering him good money and Vince may be unreasonable. His sources say the Pats offer Vince an offer that gave him in his first three years 50% more than Kris Jenkins got in his first three years in his current deal (so the Pats are offering about $25-26 million the first three years). Felger even said that the Pats are offering Vince too much.

This is Michael "The Pats are too cheap" Felger. Of course, he is blaming the Pats for letting it get to this point, but he is saying that Vince is being unreasonable.

BTW, Felger said that Tanguay's source might be Wilfork because they are tight.

 

[JoeShmoe]

If he seriously wants Haynesworth money he must know he wont get it here

I see Asante all over again

 

[okterrific]

Except Asante didn't even get a ridiculous contract in the end, and also I think his absence has hurt them more than Wilfork's would.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Wow! Felger who always trashes the Pats over the players on contract negotiations just said that his sources has told him that the Pats have made "a good faith offer" and offering him good money and Vince may be unreasonable. His sources say the Pats offer Vince an offer that gave him in his first three years twices as much as Kris Jenkins got in his first three years in his current deal (so the Pats are offering about $25-26 million the first three years). Felger even said that the Pats are offering Vince too much.

This is Michael "The Pats are too cheap" Felger. Of course, he is blaming the Pats for letting it get to this point, but he is saying that Vince is being unreasonable.

BTW, Felger said that Tanguay's source might be Wilfork because they are tight.

Still would like to know the parameters of the proposal. Was the bonus schedule in payments? Did it have contingencies?

Of course Felger will try and find fault. How does he know the Pats didn't try and extend Wilfork in 07 or 08 and he turned him down.

If all true, Vince is being either greedy, spiteful or thinks he has bigger money out there waiting for him. I assume the latter.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Except Asante didn't even get a ridiculous contract in the end, and also I think his absence has hurt them more than Wilfork's would.

What did Asante get? 6 yrs/$60m and $20m bonus? For 10 picks last year I tend to agree.

 

[emoney_33]

Except Asante didn't even get a ridiculous contract in the end, and also I think his absence has hurt them more than Wilfork's would.

I disagree with this post in its entirety.

 

[Rob0729]

Still would like to know the parameters of the proposal. Was the bonus schedule in payments? Did it have contingencies?

Of course Felger will try and find fault. How does he know the Pats didn't try and extend Wilfork in 07 or 08 and he turned him down.

If all true, Vince is being either greedy, spiteful or thinks he has bigger money out there waiting for him. I assume the latter.

I am pretty sure it is the latter. I think a lot of players still think being in free agency in an uncapped year is like printing money. I do agree with Felger if Wilfork is looking for $12 million a year and $30-40 million in guarantees, I say trade him and rebuild the LB corp. You could probably get two solid pass rushers (not top pass rushers on the market, but much better than what the Pats had last year) for that money.

 

[emoney_33]

What did Asante get? 6 yrs/$60m and $20m bonus? For 10 picks last year I tend to agree.

9 picks, 5 against Jason Campbell, Jemarcus Russel and Josh Johnson. Whatever Wilfork will make, even if it's too much, he'll be much more worth it than Samuel.

And that's just the INTs, that's not taking into account the price you pay for his risks and the high overall success rate of throwing his direction.