The Vince Wilfork situation (merged)

[SeymourTrophies]

Except Asante didn't even get a ridiculous contract in the end, and also I think his absence has hurt them more than Wilfork's would.

Asante leaving is an underrated loss. I didn't appreciate him when we had him, so hindsight is 20/20. That's the only move in the last few years that I'd like back, excluding passed up players in the draft.

 

[JSn]

No one is giving two #1 draft picks for Vince...Sorry,he is very good but no way worth all that.

I don't think I ever said that...

 

[RobertWeathers]

I am pretty sure it is the latter. I think a lot of players still think being in free agency in an uncapped year is like printing money. I do agree with Felger if Wilfork is looking for $12 million a year and $30-40 million in guarantees, I say trade him and rebuild the LB corp. You could probably get two solid pass rushers (not top pass rushers on the market, but much better than what the Pats had last year) for that money.

Agree 100%.

 

[chevss454]

Now whether Tanguay has real information on this or not is another question, but is only logical to expect that Wilfork is looking for around $12 million or more a year and $30-40 million in guarantees. That is the market because Daniel Snyder is a moron.

It won't take long for Vince and his agent to realize there is only 1 Daniel Snyder and he isn't in the market for Vince. The Pats should tag him, keep things polite and friendly, show him love and affection and let his agent make a deal they can meet. Or tag and trade and look at Dan Williams very closely. The Pats have alternatives here.

 

[RobertWeathers]

9 picks, 5 against Jason Campbell, Jemarcus Russel and Josh Johnson. Whatever Wilfork will make, even if it's too much, he'll be much more worth it than Samuel.

And that's just the INTs, that's not taking into account the price you pay for his risks and the high overall success rate of throwing his direction.

Yea according to:

ProFootballFocus.com - By Player

the numbers back up your statement.

I'm not sure what Asante's deal was last year. He gave up a ton of completions, made a ton of pics, had a bunch of PDs, but wasn't thrown to a incredible amount. He was much better in 08.

In terms of being as equal as Wilfork. IMO its a toss-up.

 

[emoney_33]

Yea according to:

ProFootballFocus.com - By Player

the numbers back up your statement.

I'm not sure what Asante's deal was last year. He gave up a ton of completions, made a ton of pics, had a bunch of PDs, but wasn't thrown to a incredible amount. He was much better in 08.

In terms of being as equal as Wilfork. IMO its a toss-up.

I think for our type of defense Wilfork is far more important than ANY CB ever will be. We never won with crappy DL, we have won with stopgap mediocre talented DBs. That being said, there is still a price limit and the Patriots should (and clearly will) stick with their value model.

Interestingly on a side note, PFF lists Samuel at 6 PD while ESPN credits him with 16 PD.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think for our type of defense Wilfork is far more important than ANY CB ever will be. We never won with crappy DL, we have won with stopgap mediocre talented DBs. That being said, there is still a price limit and the Patriots should (and clearly will) stick with their value model.

I think it has more to do with the pass rush from the OLB/DT spots as opposed to Vince's/NT contributions.

Interestingly on a side note, PFF lists Samuel at 6 PD while ESPN credits him with 16 PD.

NFL.com has him with 16 PDs. I'll roll with that one.

 

[PATSNUTme]

The Patriots have every right ot tag him if they want. That is the system that the CBA put into place and the Players Union is part of that system.

The Patriots would be fools not to tag him. If they think they can't sign him, then they need to protect their interest in case a trade deal comes along. If they don't tag him, he can go and they get nothing. They won't let that happen.

Vince has a right to withhold his service until TC, that is part of the system too. It looks like that is what is going to happen, but a deal could be struck between now and then.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

9 picks, 5 against Jason Campbell, Jemarcus Russel and Josh Johnson. Whatever Wilfork will make, even if it's too much, he'll be much more worth it than Samuel.

And that's just the INTs, that's not taking into account the price you pay for his risks and the high overall success rate of throwing his direction.

Samuel also seemed to have his own segment on the NFLN Coaches Show about bad technique and a corner getting burned.

 

[Jackson 2]

It was Tanguay, who is connected in some instances because he's a player toady, but he's also a guy who mis speaks more often than not. Likely he didn't have any details and those can make a difference. That said Jonathan Kraft has openly stated that they have been negotiating off and on for a year now and they just aren't finding that middle ground at a time when the team is more intent than ever to not make a costly contract mistake given the unknown in a new CBA. Tanguay has also said Vince wants Haynesworth money - not sure where he's getting that information or if again it's just an assumption he makes...

The team might have been more inclined to give Vince more in 2009 than they will be in 2010 because of losing a year to amortize the deal into the end of the rookie deal like they did with Seymour (effectively making his AAV drop from $10M which is what the three year extension was for to $8M averaged over the 4 years the deal encompassed including that final rookie deal year). Not to mention now they may not have a second year in which to expect to benefit from it due to a potential lockout...

I went to Vince's annual draft party last April at Pinz in Milford and Tanguay was there as semi-MC and auctioneer. If he and Vince had gotten any cozier they would have needed to get a room.

 

[PATS68]

Wilfork are you for real!!!

Your going to make 7 Million dollars and it is a slap in the face. Why don't you take your slap in the face comment to YOUR UNION who agreed to this. A slap in the face is when an NFL team signs a guy cuts them a week later jsut to re-sign them just to cut them again.

I have lost a ton of respect for this guy.

 

[carolinatony]

Re: Wilfork are you for real!!!

The ONLY issue I can see is that he see's Other players making a Lot more than he is.

Its odd that they have a Union. A Unions objective is for everone to make the same $ based on Senority regarding of skill. It makes no sense in sports.
At least in the real world; this is what Unions want. Everyone gets the same raise every year across the board.

 

[stavros27]

Re: Wilfork are you for real!!!

Is 7 mil what they are offering per year, or the franchise amount?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Wilfork are you for real!!!

Can somebody merge this or move this to the practice squad...

 

[PATS68]

Re: Wilfork are you for real!!!

I am part of a Police Union and know all about it. When did 7 million dollars become insulting? When did 7 million dollars become a slap in the face.

I read something last year that all these x- NFL players all hangout at the Senior Bowl to try and get one more chance at the NFL. I don't think any of those guys would fine 7 million dollars insulting and a slap in the face.

 

[PATS68]

Re: Wilfork are you for real!!!

Can somebody merge this or move this to the practice squad...

Read your private messages.

 

[blackglass3]

Re: Wilfork are you for real!!!

in before practice squad move

 

[PATS68]

Re: Wilfork are you for real!!!

Felger on the radio said that his "mold" told him that the Patriots have given Vince a couple of really good contract offers and he turned them down. The contracts were supposed to be more money than what Chris Jenkins got.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Wilfork are you for real!!!

Wilfork would earn $7M,only second to Tommy Kelly so I don't really know if it truly is a slap in the face but I think its not so much the money,its the delay of a long term contract.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I just heard Tom E. Curran repeat the $20-$23 mil offer story. But he did not state the rest of the terms of the offer, which I think they should.