Welcome to PatsFans.com

The Vince Wilfork situation (merged)

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by eagle eye, Feb 10, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. eagle eye

    eagle eye Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. It seems they haven't even approached him about a new deal. Is there something wrong in New England since Pioli left, these things seem to be left until the last minute. I know a lot of the players were taken aback by the trade of Seymour, this non-contact with Vince seems like a really bad idea to me.
    It stinks of indecision on the part of the Patriots. Why leave this so late? Is it that they are leaning towards going to a 4-3 base? Has it got something to do with the CBA?
    Why would we franchise the guy when its clear he wants a good long term deal and doesn't appear to want to break the bank either?
    Would you take 1st and 2nd round picks in this years draft for him?
    Is Myron Pryor good enough to start in 2010? I think he is well ahead of Brace.

    I'm just confused by it all really. I've no problem if they let him go, as long as they believe that Pryor is up to a starting role and they get a really good deal out of it. I would prefer if he stayed though, imo he is the best NT in the league and by a long way too as he is a 3 down guy.

    Whats you thoughts and please explain to me about the CBA if its part of this.
  2. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    we have him by the balls....... there is nothing he can do.





    No Cap year will be good for us because there is no pressing need to extend him to a long term deal just yet...... Thnx to the TAG....... he cannot do anything drastic. I do not see him sitting out...... PATS use the TAG in their favor and delay the long term signing..... Do not expect a contract extension anytime soon.:):):)
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  3. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:


    1) Wilfork is most likely gone. He won't get franchised(Pats don't do this typically)
    2) No team is stupid enough to give a #1 and #2 for a NT, and I don't care if player is a perennial pro-bowler and 1st ballot HOF....NFL is a business and the draft picks are very valuable commodities
    3) Pryor is a backup at best, and Brace looks to be another Marquise Hill in the making if he could not beat our Pryor last year
  4. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I believe that they have exchanged numbers. Either side just doesn't like what they are hearing.


    I don't see this situation unfolding any differently than Samuel, Branch, etc. Take that for what it's worth. Call is playing it safe. Call it negotiating. Call it keeping their options open. Call it not thinking the player is worth the money they want.


    Don't know. I tend to doubt it.


    Kraft even said so.


    Because they can.

    We don't know what Vince wants.

    Absolutely.


    Don't know about Pryor. Agreed on Brace.

    Best 3/4 NT- yes. Best DT- No.

    My gut tells me that they Pats don't want to play big money for a run-stuffer and will let him walk/trade him.

    CBA or capless year will theoretically impact market demand for the player. In 2011 and a lockout, teams may need to be cash conservative.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  5. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,106
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    :confused: Asante Samuel and Adam Vinatieri say hello.
  6. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    why do you say he is gone?



    PATS will use this situation to their advantage.



    We will TAG him......

    If a contract does not happen this yr. TAG him again and trade him.... :)



    it is all politics. TAG guarantees him best (3) money average for position..... we will use the franchise tag to our advantage.

    Lucky for us the tag on NT is small:)
  7. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,236
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    They're not going to just let him walk; Matt Cassel can attest to that.

    We don't know how far apart they are; I also don't know that they could have devised an acceptable extension during the 2009 season because of the special salary cap rules in place to prevent teams from skirting the salary cap by shifting money into the uncapped years.
  8. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The unbelievable reach for Brace in the draft last year makes at least some sense now. Pats knew the chances were fairly slim that they could work out a long-term deal with Vince.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  9. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    6,665
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    As does Matt Cassel..AV got tagged twice IIRC....
  10. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    "Typically".........did we have backup options to AV or AS ?

    In case of Vince there's plenty of 'bodies" albeit not as talented. There's a reason Pryor played last year(not a benchwarming rook), and there's a reason they drafted Brace in Rd 2 last year...when in fact they had Vince, Sey, Ty, Jarvis, M Wright for DL depth.
  11. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    By walking I mean trade....No way he leaves w/o comp. back to the team.

    What you say I guess is possible, but based on VWs tone on EEI last week, sounds like they haven't put together anything acceptable in front of Vince. He wants a long-term deal and he wants big-time guaranteed dollars. Not Haynesworth payola, but the next tier below I'm sure.

    I would also be skeptical to learn of any potential moving of dollars to 2010 and beyond. Pats want maximum flexibility and minimal long-term, big-contact obligations until they learn more about what will happen with the CBA.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  12. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    and I submit to you following exhibits that Pats will not sign Wilfork unless he meets their value figure, which he will not since this is his last big contract....Law, Samuel, Adam V, Branch, Givens, Graham, McGinest, and others I maybe overlooking
  13. NE39

    NE39 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Tebucky Jones and Matt Cassel as well.
  14. Big-T

    Big-T Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,897
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    #51 Jersey
    Tag him, then if he sits out of training camp or wants a massive contract, ship him off to somewhere that wont be winning anything anytime soon, like Oakland and pick up another first off Al for it.

    As good a player Vince is, if he demands a crazy contract then he's expendable, the Pats will use the tag because it puts them in the driving seat and it gives them a whole year to work out a contract with him.
  15. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,763
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Looking back at the players on your list and how the players that left perfomed or are perfoming after having left and the players we replaced them with - is their really anybody you wished we "broke the bank" for??

    Law - was not worth what he wanted and the way he played in all the places he went to proved it.

    Samuel - good, not great and NOT worth the money - I like the group we have now,watch them prosepr next year.

    Adam V - Say helo to the ghost.

    Branch - sure wish we had him in 2006, no doubt, injured ever since and nowhere near what he was when he left.

    Givens - sad case of injury woes.

    Graham - he wanted to go home, woudl have taken a lot to keep him.

    Willie - loved willie to death - way beyond his prime when he went to cleveland.

    I just don't see where the decisons made in the best interest of the football club have been wrong.

    As for Wilfork - love the player, but, if he wants more than is reasonable for his position, we canot blow apart the structure. We do not know what NE values his postion at and what NE offered, nor do we know what Wilfork has already turned down.

    I sure hope we keep him, but if we don't, I am sure the money will be used for a high caliber player on the DL or elsewhere. Patriots have spent in the top five, year in and year out, depsite what the haters like to lead you to believe.
  16. Jangles

    Jangles PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,490
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    If they tag him it's a huge slap in the face

    I agree with Vince, if we can't afford him then poo but the front office needs to make resigning him a top priority.

    Our D line is a joke and losing one of the best D lineman in the game is beyond stupid
  17. hwc

    hwc Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,512
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    When your defense is so bad that an exerienced NFL coach like Bill Belichich won't punt the ball from his own 28 yard line because he KNOWS they can't make a stop, nobody is "indispensible".

    Wilfork is one of the best run-stopping D linemen in a league that increasingly pass-oriented. It doesn't matter that the Pats stopped the run on 1st down when they couldn't defend a 3rd down pass.

    I certainly don't know the answers to improving the Pats defense against the fast-break style offenses in the NFL, but I'm guessing that Belichick and Ernie Adams have some data-driven ideas.
  18. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Law would have been the only one. In the 3 years after the 2004 season, the guy still had 18 picks, 40 PDs and 3 FFs. Thought BB make a mistake there IMO.

    I don't know if the team approached Branch and Asante in year 3 of their deals. Asante they should have. Branch- based on his injury history with SEA, no.

    Thought the team missed Graham but don't think he was worth the money DEN spent on him. But he always seemed banged up. Not sure being pro-active with him would have been the smart move.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  19. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #87 Jersey
    This is the best argument of why he doesn't deserve mega $$$, and its true.
  20. the wrothbroughterer

    the wrothbroughterer Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    But it's blowing up in their face because Brace hasn't shown any indication that he can play.

    I bet he gets franchised, and *****es about it, and holds out, then comes back in time to play a full season, and plays amazingly to earn himself a nice contract.

    Its still a long ways away and things can certainly change but with the possibility of a lockout, no player is going to hold out for an entire season, then miss another if there is one. For a guy like Wilfork, that can ruin his career. He'd lose 2 years out of his prime and I doubt that's something he'd be willing to risk.
  21. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    1. Wilfork will be franchised, you can take that to the bank. He'll also probably hold out of training camp and maybe a game, but he will play. Just be prepared for the Hold out - and I'm sure they already are.

    2. Really? Might want to clear your comments with Al Davis first.

    3. Irrelevant, Wilfork will play that roll.
  22. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,755
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ratings:
    +70 / 3 / -1

    My Jersey:

    :confused:

    Brace was generally projected as a 2nd or 3rd round pick. I'm not sure how that makes a player chosen in that 2nd round an "unbelievable reach".
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  23. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    He had some spots vs Buffalo. Gotta give the kid a year to see what he can do.
  24. zimmy

    zimmy Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I don't get this taking sides over Wilfork thing. We don't know what Vince is asking for or what the Pats have offered. We do know that the Pats made an offer before the 2009 season that Wilfork rejected. There were also some brief discussions during the season that were ended as both sides agreed to wait until after the season. If Vince wants a Albert Haynesworth type deal then he is deluding himself and the Pats are right not to give it to him.

    Kris Jenkins got a 5 year 30m contract in 2008. Now Vince is a better player than Jenkins (not by that much though) and inflation will make the deal larger. Something like 5 years 40million with 20-24m guaranteed sounds reasonable to me. James Harrison signed a 50m deal with 20 odd guaranteed as the DPOY. Vince is a great player but he's not a gamechanger and I guess the Pats have a value assigned to the position.

    Additionally the Pats have Wilfork over a barrel. They will not cave to his demands because they can franchise him, get another year out of him and re-visit it next year. For all we know there might be a lockout and everyone misses a year.

    these are the facts and unfortunately Vince is in a tough position. He says he wants security for him and his family. Maybe he should just accept the Pats offer if it is reasonable, otherwise he is going to get another year or two of doubt and insecurity.
  25. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,763
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Can't argue with that loic, you are dead nuts on there - he is taken out on 3rd down all the time - so if a 7MM tag is a slap in the face, I don't get it.

    Wish we knew what we offered and what he refused / wants. Is he willing to compromise? Are we low balling?? we'll never know.
  26. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Who is taking sides? Every post I have read is basically saying, 'I like Vince, not sure if he is worth big dollars or not sure the Pats will pay up to keep him'.

    In his prime, Jenkins is better than Wilfork.
  27. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Given what the team's strengths appeared to be at the time, maybe "incredibly puzzling decision" is a better way of putting it. :mad:
  28. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    We won't just let him walk. At worst, we tag & trade him.

    Which I'd probably be OK with. I'm in the camp that thinks Wilfork is mildly overvalued by the media/board here.

    The thing, to me, about Wilfork is - he will never be on field in the 4th quarter to close out a game. The reason we lost the 2007 SB was because we lacked the guy who could end a game with his pass rush. Wilfork will never be that guy. So how much do we pay him?

    I know its a chicken and egg argument - do you need a run stopper who can force the team to pass? Or do you need a pass rusher to get you off the field on 3rd downs? Frankly, you need both - but the league is getting so pass heavy, and the elite teams are predicated on great QBs, so I believe the latter has exceeded the value of the former.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  29. Bring Back Antowain!

    Bring Back Antowain! Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Don't forget Matt Cassel, and the issue over a possible tagging of Deion Branch.

    I don't know what that guy is smoking, Pats are one of the most active teams in the NFL in terms of taking advantage of the tag.

    The Pats don't typically use the tag? Has that person followed the Pats at all?
  30. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:



    Since Pats FO was so smart to recognize VW will hold out and will have to be franchised, that's why Brace was drafted in 2nd Rd last year, right, or later had Pryor playing as well.
    Pats are not paying top 3 $$ be it Franchise or no-Franchise for a run stuffing 2 down NT which is what VW is, and you can take that to the bank. Wilfork is no more valuble than was Seymour.

    Al Davis has given up a #1 and #2 for a NT ?? Show me the evidence :singing:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page