The Vince Wilfork situation (merged)

[eagle eye]

I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. It seems they haven't even approached him about a new deal. Is there something wrong in New England since Pioli left, these things seem to be left until the last minute. I know a lot of the players were taken aback by the trade of Seymour, this non-contact with Vince seems like a really bad idea to me.
It stinks of indecision on the part of the Patriots. Why leave this so late? Is it that they are leaning towards going to a 4-3 base? Has it got something to do with the CBA?
Why would we franchise the guy when its clear he wants a good long term deal and doesn't appear to want to break the bank either?
Would you take 1st and 2nd round picks in this years draft for him?
Is Myron Pryor good enough to start in 2010? I think he is well ahead of Brace.

I'm just confused by it all really. I've no problem if they let him go, as long as they believe that Pryor is up to a starting role and they get a really good deal out of it. I would prefer if he stayed though, imo he is the best NT in the league and by a long way too as he is a 3 down guy.

Whats you thoughts and please explain to me about the CBA if its part of this.

 

[HarkDawg]

we have him by the balls....... there is nothing he can do.





No Cap year will be good for us because there is no pressing need to extend him to a long term deal just yet...... Thnx to the TAG....... he cannot do anything drastic. I do not see him sitting out...... PATS use the TAG in their favor and delay the long term signing..... Do not expect a contract extension anytime soon.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. It seems they haven't even approached him about a new deal. Is there something wrong in New England since Pioli left, these things seem to be left until the last minute. I know a lot of the players were taken aback by the trade of Seymour, this non-contact with Vince seems like a really bad idea to me.
It stinks of indecision on the part of the Patriots. Why leave this so late? Is it that they are leaning towards going to a 4-3 base? Has it got something to do with the CBA?
Why would we franchise the guy when its clear he wants a good long term deal and doesn't appear to want to break the bank either?
Would you take 1st and 2nd round picks in this years draft for him?
Is Myron Pryor good enough to start in 2010? I think he is well ahead of Brace.

I'm just confused by it all really. I've no problem if they let him go, as long as they believe that Pryor is up to a starting role and they get a really good deal out of it. I would prefer if he stayed though, imo he is the best NT in the league and by a long way too as he is a 3 down guy.

Whats you thoughts and please explain to me about the CBA if its part of this.

1) Wilfork is most likely gone. He won't get franchised(Pats don't do this typically)
2) No team is stupid enough to give a #1 and #2 for a NT, and I don't care if player is a perennial pro-bowler and 1st ballot HOF....NFL is a business and the draft picks are very valuable commodities
3) Pryor is a backup at best, and Brace looks to be another Marquise Hill in the making if he could not beat our Pryor last year

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. It seems they haven't even approached him about a new deal.

I believe that they have exchanged numbers. Either side just doesn't like what they are hearing.

Is there something wrong in New England since Pioli left, these things seem to be left until the last minute. I know a lot of the players were taken aback by the trade of Seymour, this non-contact with Vince seems like a really bad idea to me.
It stinks of indecision on the part of the Patriots. Why leave this so late?

I don't see this situation unfolding any differently than Samuel, Branch, etc. Take that for what it's worth. Call is playing it safe. Call it negotiating. Call it keeping their options open. Call it not thinking the player is worth the money they want.

Is it that they are leaning towards going to a 4-3 base?

Don't know. I tend to doubt it.

Has it got something to do with the CBA?

Kraft even said so.

Why would we franchise the guy when its clear he wants a good long term deal

Because they can.

doesn't appear to want to break the bank either?

We don't know what Vince wants.

Would you take 1st and 2nd round picks in this years draft for him?

Absolutely.

Is Myron Pryor good enough to start in 2010? I think he is well ahead of Brace.

Don't know about Pryor. Agreed on Brace.

I'm just confused by it all really. I've no problem if they let him go, as long as they believe that Pryor is up to a starting role and they get a really good deal out of it. I would prefer if he stayed though, imo he is the best NT in the league and by a long way too as he is a 3 down guy.

Best 3/4 NT- yes. Best DT- No.

My gut tells me that they Pats don't want to play big money for a run-stuffer and will let him walk/trade him.

Whats you thoughts and please explain to me about the CBA if its part of this.

CBA or capless year will theoretically impact market demand for the player. In 2011 and a lockout, teams may need to be cash conservative.

 

[fair catch fryar]

1) Wilfork is most likely gone. He won't get franchised(Pats don't do this typically)
2) No team is stupid enough to give a #1 and #2 for a NT, and I don't care if player is a perennial pro-bowler and 1st ballot HOF....NFL is a business and the draft picks are very valuable commodities
3) Pryor is a backup at best, and Brace looks to be another Marquise Hill in the making if he could not beat our Pryor last year

Asante Samuel and Adam Vinatieri say hello.

 

[HarkDawg]

why do you say he is gone?



PATS will use this situation to their advantage.



We will TAG him......

If a contract does not happen this yr. TAG him again and trade him....



it is all politics. TAG guarantees him best (3) money average for position..... we will use the franchise tag to our advantage.

Lucky for us the tag on NT is small

 

[ctpatsfan77]

My gut tells me that they Pats don't want to play big money for a run-stuffer and will let him walk/trade him.

They're not going to just let him walk; Matt Cassel can attest to that.

We don't know how far apart they are; I also don't know that they could have devised an acceptable extension during the 2009 season because of the special salary cap rules in place to prevent teams from skirting the salary cap by shifting money into the uncapped years.

 

[JMarr]

The unbelievable reach for Brace in the draft last year makes at least some sense now. Pats knew the chances were fairly slim that they could work out a long-term deal with Vince.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Asante Samuel and Adam Vinatieri say hello.

As does Matt Cassel..AV got tagged twice IIRC....

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Asante Samuel and Adam Vinatieri say hello.

"Typically".........did we have backup options to AV or AS ?

In case of Vince there's plenty of 'bodies" albeit not as talented. There's a reason Pryor played last year(not a benchwarming rook), and there's a reason they drafted Brace in Rd 2 last year...when in fact they had Vince, Sey, Ty, Jarvis, M Wright for DL depth.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They're not going to just let him walk; Matt Cassel can attest to that..

By walking I mean trade....No way he leaves w/o comp. back to the team.

We don't know how far apart they are; I also don't know that they could have devised an acceptable extension during the 2009 season because of the special salary cap rules in place to prevent teams from skirting the salary cap by shifting money into the uncapped years.

What you say I guess is possible, but based on VWs tone on EEI last week, sounds like they haven't put together anything acceptable in front of Vince. He wants a long-term deal and he wants big-time guaranteed dollars. Not Haynesworth payola, but the next tier below I'm sure.

I would also be skeptical to learn of any potential moving of dollars to 2010 and beyond. Pats want maximum flexibility and minimal long-term, big-contact obligations until they learn more about what will happen with the CBA.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

The unbelievable reach for Brace in the draft last year makes at least some sense now. Pats knew the chances were fairly slim that they could work out a long-term deal with Vince.

and I submit to you following exhibits that Pats will not sign Wilfork unless he meets their value figure, which he will not since this is his last big contract....Law, Samuel, Adam V, Branch, Givens, Graham, McGinest, and others I maybe overlooking

 

[NE39]

Asante Samuel and Adam Vinatieri say hello.

Tebucky Jones and Matt Cassel as well.

 

[Big-T]

Tag him, then if he sits out of training camp or wants a massive contract, ship him off to somewhere that wont be winning anything anytime soon, like Oakland and pick up another first off Al for it.

As good a player Vince is, if he demands a crazy contract then he's expendable, the Pats will use the tag because it puts them in the driving seat and it gives them a whole year to work out a contract with him.

 

[fgssand]

and I submit to you following exhibits that Pats will not sign Wilfork unless he meets their value figure, which he will not since this is his last big contract....Law, Samuel, Adam V, Branch, Givens, Graham, McGinest, and others I maybe overlooking

Looking back at the players on your list and how the players that left perfomed or are perfoming after having left and the players we replaced them with - is their really anybody you wished we "broke the bank" for??

Law - was not worth what he wanted and the way he played in all the places he went to proved it.

Samuel - good, not great and NOT worth the money - I like the group we have now,watch them prosepr next year.

Adam V - Say helo to the ghost.

Branch - sure wish we had him in 2006, no doubt, injured ever since and nowhere near what he was when he left.

Givens - sad case of injury woes.

Graham - he wanted to go home, woudl have taken a lot to keep him.

Willie - loved willie to death - way beyond his prime when he went to cleveland.

I just don't see where the decisons made in the best interest of the football club have been wrong.

As for Wilfork - love the player, but, if he wants more than is reasonable for his position, we canot blow apart the structure. We do not know what NE values his postion at and what NE offered, nor do we know what Wilfork has already turned down.

I sure hope we keep him, but if we don't, I am sure the money will be used for a high caliber player on the DL or elsewhere. Patriots have spent in the top five, year in and year out, depsite what the haters like to lead you to believe.

 

[Jangles]

If they tag him it's a huge slap in the face

I agree with Vince, if we can't afford him then poo but the front office needs to make resigning him a top priority.

Our D line is a joke and losing one of the best D lineman in the game is beyond stupid

 

[hwc]

When your defense is so bad that an exerienced NFL coach like Bill Belichich won't punt the ball from his own 28 yard line because he KNOWS they can't make a stop, nobody is "indispensible".

Wilfork is one of the best run-stopping D linemen in a league that increasingly pass-oriented. It doesn't matter that the Pats stopped the run on 1st down when they couldn't defend a 3rd down pass.

I certainly don't know the answers to improving the Pats defense against the fast-break style offenses in the NFL, but I'm guessing that Belichick and Ernie Adams have some data-driven ideas.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Looking back at the players on your list and how the players that left perfomed or are perfoming after having left and the players we replaced them with - is their really anybody you wished we "broke the bank" for??

Law - was not worth what he wanted and the way he played in all the places he went to proved it.

Samuel - good, not great and NOT worth the money - I like the group we have now,watch them prosepr next year.

Adam V - Say helo to the ghost.

Branch - sure wish we had him in 2006, no doubt, injured ever since and nowhere near what he was when he left.

Givens - sad case of injury woes.

Graham - he wanted to go home, woudl have taken a lot to keep him.

Willie - loved willie to death - way beyond his prime when he went to cleveland.

I just don't see where the decisons made in the best interest of the football club have been wrong.

As for Wilfork - love the player, but, if he wants more than is reasonable for his position, we canot blow apart the structure. We do not know what NE values his postion at and what NE offered, nor do we know what Wilfork has already turned down.

I sure hope we keep him, but if we don't, I am sure the money will be used for a high caliber player on the DL or elsewhere. Patriots have spent in the top five, year in and year out, depsite what the haters like to lead you to believe.

Law would have been the only one. In the 3 years after the 2004 season, the guy still had 18 picks, 40 PDs and 3 FFs. Thought BB make a mistake there IMO.

I don't know if the team approached Branch and Asante in year 3 of their deals. Asante they should have. Branch- based on his injury history with SEA, no.

Thought the team missed Graham but don't think he was worth the money DEN spent on him. But he always seemed banged up. Not sure being pro-active with him would have been the smart move.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Wilfork is one of the best run-stopping D linemen in a league that increasingly pass-oriented.

This is the best argument of why he doesn't deserve mega $$$, and its true.

 

[the wrothbroughterer]

The unbelievable reach for Brace in the draft last year makes at least some sense now. Pats knew the chances were fairly slim that they could work out a long-term deal with Vince.

But it's blowing up in their face because Brace hasn't shown any indication that he can play.

I bet he gets franchised, and *****es about it, and holds out, then comes back in time to play a full season, and plays amazingly to earn himself a nice contract.

Its still a long ways away and things can certainly change but with the possibility of a lockout, no player is going to hold out for an entire season, then miss another if there is one. For a guy like Wilfork, that can ruin his career. He'd lose 2 years out of his prime and I doubt that's something he'd be willing to risk.