Suspect drafting past few years

[mgteich]

The difference between the 1st and 32nd teams is one draft pick. Yes the worst team gets the #1, but after that,

The superbowl team picks then the worst team picks in every round.

This year has potential to be a great one.

2007 we got Merriweather, Welker, Moss, hard to complain about that output.

2008 we get Mayo, Wilhite both starters and Guyton as a UDFA he contributes.

It's hard to complain considering we are typically towards the bottom end of each round.

 

[DaBruinz]

Im not saying every single pick needs to be a pro bowl pick at all. What I am saying that is the a lot of these picks are either out of the league or on someone's practice squad. Even if they could have been contributing players or something that could help this team win. A lot of these haven't. That's what im saying. That has to be put on the front office.. Too many of these picks haven't panned out at all, which has been a problem going forward. I have illustrated why this is a problem. What do we say year after year? We need a TE, We need a RB, a OLB or a corner. 5 straight years we have been asking ourselves this and its a problem. So dont try to defend it because it can't be defensed.

Sorry, but you listing the picks for the entirety of BB's career as a Patriots coach and providing no comparison to what the other teams in the league have done drafting wise does not support your argument.

Sorry, but your assessment isn't correct. How can you say that "too many of the picks haven't panned out at all" when you couldn't even be bothered to list out how long each was in the league? And how can you say that your assessment has any validity when you don't bother to make the comparison to the rest of the league. How can your assessment be even partially correct when you've failed to take into consideration that 28 of the 77 picks you listed were in the 6th and 7th round. Rounds that have less than 10% chance of producing a successful pick?

 

[Deus Irae]

I understand he had a sprained knee but hasn't it healed already? We don't hear anything about it.

Do you generally hear scads of news about Patriots injuries? Also, as far as recovery, come on now.....

Also, it's not that hard to adjust to a 4-3 considering he played that in college. That's a poor argument.

In the NFL, he's playing a different 4-3. He's also doing it coming off of a knee injury. It's only a "poor argument" to people who are trying to push a position without looking at everything involved. To people trying to understand the situation, it's a damned good argument.

 

[FinNasty23]

Suspect drafting? Take a look at what was going on in Miami before Parcells&Co got here...

Even after 2 years with this regime, we still are having trouble filling all of the holes left void by bust draft picks...

 

[Patspsycho]

Also, it's not that hard to adjust to a 4-3 considering he played that in college. That's a poor argument.

You're daft. The 4-3 he played at Tennessee is nowhere similar to the 2 gapping 4-3 BB employs.

 

[DaBruinz]

With respect to the 2009 New England Patriots, the issue is not suspect drafts but player personnel decisions. Belichick the general manager has let down Belichick the coach.

Seymour vs Burgess
Gaffney vs Galloway
Hobbs vs Springs
Alex Smith
Michael Matthews
David Thomas
Greg Lewis

Hobbs vs. Springs? Isn't that a bit of a supposition on your part? Shouldn't it be Hobbs vs. Wilhite since Wilhite has been the player starting in Hobbs spot most of the season?

Also, since when can BB see the future and know when player is going to get injured?

As for Matthews, that was puzzling. I think the Pats miss his blocking skills.

Why don't you compare Thomas to Matthews since Matthews replaced Thomas?

I wouldn't say that BB the GM let down BB the coach. I would say that the Players let down the coach because they didn't step up they way that was expected..

I'll be honest. I don't think the Pats miss Gaffney as much as people think. I think the Pats miss having a consistent O-line that doesn't need the help of TEs to effectively run block and pass block.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Hobbs vs. Springs? Isn't that a bit of a supposition on your part? Shouldn't it be Hobbs vs. Wilhite since Wilhite has been the player starting in Hobbs spot most of the season?

Also, since when can BB see the future and know when player is going to get injured?

As for Matthews, that was puzzling. I think the Pats miss his blocking skills.

Why don't you compare Thomas to Matthews since Matthews replaced Thomas?

I wouldn't say that BB the GM let down BB the coach. I would say that the Players let down the coach because they didn't step up they way that was expected..

I'll be honest. I don't think the Pats miss Gaffney as much as people think. I think the Pats miss having a consistent O-line that doesn't need the help of TEs to effectively run block and pass block.

Thomas has 20 catches for 244 yards and a TD playing on the leagues best offense. Matthews is not employed by a NFL team.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

2008 draft is looking terrible right now

 

[WelshPat]

'I wouldn't say that BB the GM let down BB the coach. I would say that the Players let down the coach because they didn't step up they way that was expected..'

They didn't step up? So the players didn't play as well as BB expected? Bills the one that makes the roster moves. Isn't that his fault?

 

[condon84]

So for people defending our drafts, what do you suppose is the reason for our team to be no longer in the elite level?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

The difference between the 1st and 32nd teams is one draft pick. Yes the worst team gets the #1, but after that,

The superbowl team picks then the worst team picks in every round.

That one draft pick is the most important one theoretically. And breaking it down the way you did, it's just like getting an extra [high] first rounder and the rest of the drafts being even. That's a considerable advantage for the bad team, it's getting one more player who theoretically should be the best player of all.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, it is a significant advantage to get the first first pick. But it is NOT true that after that there is a disadvantage on every round. My point was after the first pick, the Super Bowl winner and the worst team in the league have equal opportunities in the draft.

That one draft pick is the most important one theoretically. And breaking it down the way you did, it's just like getting an extra [high] first rounder and the rest of the drafts being even. That's a considerable advantage for the bad team, it's getting one more player who theoretically should be the best player of all.

 

[JackBauer]

So for people defending our drafts, what do you suppose is the reason for our team to be no longer in the elite level?

1) Coaching
2) Suspect FA decisions






3) Drafting

 

[The_Riddler]

So for people defending our drafts, what do you suppose is the reason for our team to be no longer in the elite level?

Couldn't be BB, not a chance, it must be um, Bobby Grier, that's it. It's Bobby Grier's fault he forced BB to make these picks.

 

[mayoclinic]

Yes, it is a significant advantage to get the first first pick. But it is NOT true that after that there is a disadvantage on every round. My point was after the first pick, the Super Bowl winner and the worst team in the league have equal opportunities in the draft.

It can also be a huge disadvantage to get the 1st pick. Huge contract, huge expectations, huge recriminations if the pick doesn't work out. Look at Jamarcus Russell and Alex Smith.

And, as you say, after that it is essentially even. 32 vs. 33, 64 vs. 65, etc.

Picking around 10th in every round is very nice. The money is not outrageous, you can often get an impact player, and there's plenty of opportunity to trade up or down within reason. Players available at #10 in the past drafts include:

2003 - Terrell Suggs (10), Troy Polamalu (16)
2005 - DeMarcus Ware (11), Shawne Merriman (12)
2006 - Haloti Ngata (12)
2007 - Patrick Willis (11), Darrelle Revis (14)
2008 - Jerod Mayo (10), Ryan Clady (12), Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (16)
2009 - Michael Crabtree (10)

Lots of impact players.

 

[condon84]

1) Coaching
2) Suspect FA decisions






3) Drafting

Okay, but you know what, I know I've read some posters who've been defending our drafts also defend our coaching and FA decisions, so.....

 

[JackBauer]

Okay, but you know what, I know I've read some posters who've been defending our drafts also defend our coaching and FA decisions, so.....

I think they've had a good rate of return on their draft picks.

But where they've fallen off the wagon is lack of quality assistant coaching (either that or BB has totally lost his mojo, which I doubt) and near-total whiffage on FAs (I like Bodden, but Springs, Burgess, AD, Galloway, trading Seymour, probably should have re-signed either Gaffney or Kelly Washington, etc.)

 

[condon84]

I think they've had a good rate of return on their draft picks.

But where they've fallen off the wagon is lack of quality assistant coaching (either that or BB has totally lost his mojo, which I doubt) and near-total whiffage on FAs (I like Bodden, but Springs, Burgess, AD, Galloway, trading Seymour, probably should have re-signed either Gaffney or Kelly Washington, etc.)

I agree with this for the most part.

I think they misused AD. He should have been strictly a pass rusher/OLB. They had him covering TEs for the most part of his first and second year (when he wasn't injured). I can see why he's frustrated.

Galloway should have been kept just to keep defenses honest with his vertical speed. They gave up too quickly on him.

But going back to my question I asked, it's just funny that some of the most ardent defenders of our drafts are also the same people who are the most vocal defenders of Bill/FO/anything Patriots. I just don't see how these guys are realistic about things. Something has gone awry because we are no longer an elite team.

For me, I think our draft has been decent (some good, some bad), but our coaching has been slipping on the defensive side since 05, and with McDaniels gone, our offense has really taken a dip.

 

[Deus Irae]

So for people defending our drafts, what do you suppose is the reason for our team to be no longer in the elite level?

The Patriots were 16-0 2 years ago. Last season, they went 11-5 with a QB that hadn't been a starter since high school. In the past offseason:

Loss of excellent O.C.
Loss of excellent front office partner
Bruschi - retired
Harrison - retired
Vrabel - traded
Seymour - traded
Burgess - terrible trade
AdT - struggling
2 LB draft picks, one from 2008 and 1 from 2009, IR'd
QB returning from serious, season ending injury
WR3 not replaced
O-line struggling with injury and inconsistent play

With all that, even disregarding the so-called 'bad drafts', how the hell would any team be expected to maintain that 'elite' status? I'm not happy with where the team is, but can we not all start looking for tall bridges and buildings to leap off? The Patriots are still the best team in their division, and they've got about a month to improve, make the playoffs, and become a top Super Bowl contender. I don't expect the team to win the Super Bowl playing as they are, but it's been one down year, not a decade of Lions-like play.

I've been talking about this team struggling and pointing out problems all offseason, because I thought Belichick was making a lot of mistakes that would come back to bite the team. However, people who want to start blaming the draft really need to take a look over at Pittsburgh.

 

[condon84]

The Patriots were 16-0 2 years ago. Last season, they went 11-5 with a QB that hadn't been a starter since high school. In the past offseason:

Loss of excellent O.C.
Loss of excellent front office partner
Bruschi - retired
Harrison - retired
Vrabel - traded
Seymour - traded
Burgess - terrible trade
AdT - struggling
2 LB draft picks, one from 2008 and 1 from 2009, IR'd
QB returning from serious, season ending injury
WR3 not replaced
O-line struggling with injury and inconsistent play

With all that, even disregarding the so-called 'bad drafts', how the hell would any team be expected to maintain that 'elite' status? I'm not happy with where the team is, but can we not all start looking for tall bridges and buildings to leap off? The Patriots are still the best team in their division, and they've got about a month to improve, make the playoffs, and become a top Super Bowl contender. I don't expect the team to win the Super Bowl playing as they are, but it's been one down year, not a decade of Lions-like play.

I've been talking about this team struggling and pointing out problems all offseason, because I thought Belichick was making a lot of mistakes that would come back to bite the team. However, people who want to start blaming the draft really need to take a look over at Pittsburgh.

It's hard to blame it all on one person, but don't all these issues fall squarely on Bill? (except for Brady's injury).