Belichick is rebuilding for 2012

[BradyFTW!]

I agreed with you until the Hobbs part. Good KR, but was horrible as a CB. And if you really do like Hobbs, you must have liked what Wilhite showed yesterday.

I do agree with most of your breakdown. I'd like to add that the compensation we received for Vrabel and Cassel from KC was criminal.

Another issue I have with BB is the resigning of some of our drafted players. Yes, continuity is good, but if it's mediocre continuity, why not try to upgrade? Sanders, Koppen, Kazcur are all prime examples.

Whatever you think about Hobbs, he is better than Wilhite, which means he's good enough to start for us.

 

[dhamz]

We are 9th against the run thus far this season. In 2008 we finished 8th.

Not sure where you got that.

NFL.com has us 16th against the run based on yards per game allowed at 109.7. We give up 4.4 yards per attempt which is 23rd in the NFL. Last year was 15th in yards per game and yards per carry at 107 and 4.1. This year's run D isn't good if you go by the numbers but it is not much different from last year.

No matter the numbers which are wildly overrated in football, this teams major defensive issues are in pass defense, not run defense. As the HC of the NEP will always tell you, football is a situational game and this team can't stop the pass when it needs to and hasn't been able to for the last few years.

 

[condon84]

Whatever you think about Hobbs, he is better than Wilhite, which means he's good enough to start for us.

We'll see this offseason. Hobbs will be a free agent and if he is an upgrade over what we have as starters, we might go get him.

 

[mgteich]

What I can't understand is why folks think Hobbs was not qualified to be our nickel or dime back, and our kick returner.

He wouldn't have to have beaten out Wilhite for the starting position to make the team better.

Or just consider Hobbs as a kick returner.

Whatever you think about Hobbs, he is better than Wilhite, which means he's good enough to start for us.

 

[condon84]

What I can't understand is why folks think Hobbs was not qualified to be our nickel or dime back, and our kick returner.

He wouldn't have to have beaten out Wilhite for the starting position to make the team better.

Or just consider Hobbs as a kick returner.

I would have no issue with Hobbs being our KR or dime back. He's one of the best kick returners in the league and would have been a great dime back/decent nickel back. I was surprised to see him traded because the value he brought as a kick returner and depth at CB. But I guess those two 5th round draft picks turned out to be important for us.

 

[mgteich]

Yup, those 2 fifths that we sued to get Ohrnberger were crucial. After all, was he the same deal as Vollmer, starting when Neal went down. Oh, I forgot, he usually has not even been active.

I would have no issue with Hobbs being our KR or dime back. He's one of the best kick returners in the league and would have been a great dime back/decent nickel back. I was surprised to see him traded because the value he brought as a kick returner and depth at CB. But I guess those two 5th round draft picks turned out to be important for us.

 

[Patspsycho]

Yup, those 2 fifths that we sued to get Ohrnberger were crucial. After all, was he the same deal as Vollmer, starting when Neal went down. Oh, I forgot, he usually has not even been active.

Let's sue for another 1st round pick in 2010. We could sue the omissioner for tarnishing our image in '07.

 

[mayoclinic]

Yup, those 2 fifths that we sued to get Ohrnberger were crucial. After all, was he the same deal as Vollmer, starting when Neal went down. Oh, I forgot, he usually has not even been active.

I presume the intent was largely to get something for Hobbs before his contract expired, given the number of FAs and the strong likelihood that we wouldn't keep him after 2009, or keep 6 DBs on the roster for his season (Bodden, Butler, Hobbs, Springs, Wilhite and Wheatley - I didn't see us getting rid of the new kids, no matter what). It seemed like a fire sale to me at the time, as I would have guessed he merited a 3rd round pick. A 2010 3round pick would even have been preferable, in retrospect, given the likely depth of this draft and our lack of a 3rd rounder.

I was never a fan of the Ohrnberger pick, though I heard BB and Scar were very high on him. He seemed like another undersized OG who would get pushed around. Maybe he'll surprise over time, though.

 

[mgteich]

We likely could have gotten a late round 2011 3rd as compensation from the league, or a 2010 pick from another team if Hobbs were to be a 2010 RFA.

There is always room on a Belichick team for another defensive back who can play special teams. We now have 12 defensive backs as listed by Miguel. Hobbs would be on the current roster instead of Lockett, Arrington or Slater.

I agree that none of the other corners would have been cut.

We signed Burgess for one year. We signed Banta-Cain for one year. We signed Bodden for one year. We could have kept Hobbs for one year.

The corners have turned out pretty well. I would think Hobbs would still merit playing time at corner. However, even if he didn't, he is a fine kick returner. We have Slater.

I presume the intent was largely to get something for Hobbs before his contract expired, given the number of FAs and the strong likelihood that we wouldn't keep him after 2009, or keep 6 DBs on the roster for his season (Bodden, Butler, Hobbs, Springs, Wilhite and Wheatley - I didn't see us getting rid of the new kids, no matter what). It seemed like a fire sale to me at the time, as I would have guessed he merited a 3rd round pick. A 2010 3round pick would even have been preferable, in retrospect, given the likely depth of this draft and our lack of a 3rd rounder.

I was never a fan of the Ohrnberger pick, though I heard BB and Scar were very high on him. He seemed like another undersized OG who would get pushed around. Maybe he'll surprise over time, though.

 

[karguy85]

I posted this in another thread but I guess it was glossed over:

not trying to fuel any conspiracy theories but do you think any of the lackluster coaching could be due to the uncapped year next year looming. I don't know the exact rules in regards to it, but I know that if you are a top 8 team you can only sign a free agent when you lose one of similar caliber (or something like that) but otherwise you can sign anyone... if the patriots finish out of the top 8 they could sign any FA to any contract they want. Just a thought, and no I don't think Belichick would sacrifice this year for the future. It just seems like the play-calling has been way to predictable, on both sides of the ball.

 

[mayoclinic]

Maybe we should be rebuilding for 2020.

 

[FalconHeavy]

Maybe we should be rebuilding for 2020.

LOL!! you are right ! at this rate, we might be headed right there

 

[crypto]

Gonna be the resident jerk and repeat that "rebuilding" is an incredibly lame excuse. This has been a horrible season with a horrible coaching staff and talented players whose heads aren't in the game. There's no "rebuilding" involved. Period.

 

[mayoclinic]

Gonna be the resident jerk and repeat that "rebuilding" is an incredibly lame excuse. This has been a horrible season with a horrible coaching staff and talented players whose heads aren't in the game. There's no "rebuilding" involved. Period.

That may be a tad severe. But this has been the most disappointing season I can remember under BB.

What's disappointing to me is the way we have played relative to our ability. Even the 2005 team, which had severe flaws, peaked in December and came close to making a playoff run. The 2008 team, minus Brady, was a team no one wanted to face in the playoffs, and ended the year on an up note.

This team has been inconsistent and underperforming all year. The defense can claim youthfulness and rebuilding, but the offense has just plain underperformed. The team has shown a lot of "un-Patriot"-like tendencies, including repeatedly blowing 2nd half leads. We haven't yet won a true road game this year. We've gone from being the best clutch team in the NFL, to a dominant team that let a few opportunities slip away (2007 AFCCG, 2008 SB), to just an inconsistent team that can't finish and blows opportunities.

The coaching has been the worst I can remember in the BB era. There has been extremely questionable schemes and playcalling on both sides of the ball, and poor judgments regarding game management, timeouts, challenges, and 3rd/4th down decisions.

The Patriots have now lost 2 in a row for the first time since November 2006. The last time before that was December 2002. This is also the first time in the 10 year BB era that the Pats have opened December with a loss. December has always been when we peaked. Doesn't seem to be happening right now.

I'm not crying or complaining. It is what it is. But the fact is, we are not a very good team right now, and this has to be considered the most underperforming Pats team in the BB era.

I expect to get flamed for this post. But that's the way I see it. Again, no complaints. But it is what it is.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Gonna be the resident jerk and repeat that "rebuilding" is an incredibly lame excuse. This has been a horrible season with a horrible coaching staff and talented players whose heads aren't in the game. There's no "rebuilding" involved. Period.

Sorry pal but #1) There's no fountain of youth. Players get old.
#2) This isn't Madden on your ps3 where you can trade an old expensive guy and a draft pick for a young inexpensive guy with a slightly lower rating and just roll along with no setbacks.

 

[The Dynasty]

That may be a tad severe. But this has been the most disappointing season I can remember under BB.

What's disappointing to me is the way we have played relative to our ability. Even the 2005 team, which had severe flaws, peaked in December and came close to making a playoff run. The 2008 team, minus Brady, was a team no one wanted to face in the playoffs, and ended the year on an up note.

This team has been inconsistent and underperforming all year. The defense can claim youthfulness and rebuilding, but the offense has just plain underperformed. The team has shown a lot of "un-Patriot"-like tendencies, including repeatedly blowing 2nd half leads. We haven't yet won a true road game this year. We've gone from being the best clutch team in the NFL, to a dominant team that let a few opportunities slip away (2007 AFCCG, 2008 SB), to just an inconsistent team that can't finish and blows opportunities.

The coaching has been the worst I can remember in the BB era. There has been extremely questionable schemes and playcalling on both sides of the ball, and poor judgments regarding game management, timeouts, challenges, and 3rd/4th down decisions.

The Patriots have now lost 2 in a row for the first time since November 2006. The last time before that was December 2002. This is also the first time in the 10 year BB era that the Pats have opened December with a loss. December has always been when we peaked. Doesn't seem to be happening right now.

I'm not crying or complaining. It is what it is. But the fact is, we are not a very good team right now, and this has to be considered the most underperforming Pats team in the BB era.

I expect to get flamed for this post. But that's the way I see it. Again, no complaints. But it is what it is.

I actually agree with you. This team has drastically underachieved. Coming into this year, most people were saying 14-2, 13-3 and now we're 7-5. With an offense with Brady, Moss and Welker there is no excuse for this team to be under performing on offense, especially in the 2nd half when it matters.

Coming into this season we knew that the offense was going to have to lead the team to wins since we have such a young and inexperienced defense. The offense is not getting the job done.

Blame BB, O'Brien, or wheoever you want, but when it comes down to pointing the finger at someone I would call out Brady and Moss. These are the leaders of the offense and they arent playing to the level that people know they can play at. Brady has missed throws that could have been big plays and not been the clutch Tom Brady that we know, hes been throwing INTs in the 4th quarter and not being that clutch QB that he was. Randy Moss hasnt been at his best in games we have lost. With the exception of the Indy game he has been held to 1, 2, 4 and 5 catches in those games. Today he had the TD in the first and then disappeared. He needs to step up and find ways to get open on his own and make big plays. I know its hard to point fingers at particular people, but these are the leaders of our team and are under performing so they deserve to be called out

 

[mayoclinic]

I actually agree with you. This team has drastically underachieved. Coming into this year, most people were saying 14-2, 13-3 and now we're 7-5. With an offense with Brady, Moss and Welker there is no excuse for this team to be under performing on offense, especially in the 2nd half when it matters.

Coming into this season we knew that the offense was going to have to lead the team to wins since we have such a young and inexperienced defense. The offense is not getting the job done.

Blame BB, O'Brien, or wheoever you want, but when it comes down to pointing the finger at someone I would call out Brady and Moss. These are the leaders of the offense and they arent playing to the level that people know they can play at. Brady has missed throws that could have been big plays and not been the clutch Tom Brady that we know, hes been throwing INTs in the 4th quarter and not being that clutch QB that he was. Randy Moss hasnt been at his best in games we have lost. With the exception of the Indy game he has been held to 1, 2, 4 and 5 catches in those games. Today he had the TD in the first and then disappeared. He needs to step up and find ways to get open on his own and make big plays. I know its hard to point fingers at particular people, but these are the leaders of our team and are under performing so they deserve to be called out

I thought the 2005 and 2008 teams were severely flawed - 2005 by Bruschi's stroke, Johnson's retirement and struggles at ILB (Brown and Beisel), 2008 by Brady's injury and the loss of Samuel and a terrible secondary - but I didn't feel either team underperformed. This team has underperformed relative to it's talent level. There's no way around it. I don't care about winning the SB, or even making the playoffs right now. I'd just like to see us start to play good football and play closer to our capability. Including playing for all 60 minutes.

 

[The Dynasty]

I thought the 2005 and 2008 teams were severely flawed - 2005 by Bruschi's stroke, Johnson's retirement and struggles at ILB (Brown and Beisel), 2008 by Brady's injury and the loss of Samuel and a terrible secondary - but I didn't feel either team underperformed. This team has underperformed relative to it's talent level. There's no way around it. I don't care about winning the SB, or even making the playoffs right now. I'd just like to see us start to play good football and play closer to our capability. Including playing for all 60 minutes.

Absolutely. The 2005 and 2008 teams definitely did not underperform. I thought last years team did a lot better than I thought they would after Brady went down.

Anyone that says this years team has not underperformed doesnt know what game they're watching. This offense should be putting up 28+ points a game. Not even putting up points, but just looking like an elite offense. How many times have the Pats gone 3 and out this year? More than any Pats team I've seen in the BB era. This offense just doesnt have any rhythm to it and I hate to say it but I dont think opposing defenses are afraid of the Pats like they used to be.

 

[Deus Irae]

I actually agree with you. This team has drastically underachieved. Coming into this year, most people were saying 14-2, 13-3 and now we're 7-5. With an offense with Brady, Moss and Welker there is no excuse for this team to be under performing on offense, especially in the 2nd half when it matters.

Coming into this season we knew that the offense was going to have to lead the team to wins since we have such a young and inexperienced defense. The offense is not getting the job done.

Blame BB, O'Brien, or wheoever you want, but when it comes down to pointing the finger at someone I would call out Brady and Moss. These are the leaders of the offense and they arent playing to the level that people know they can play at. Brady has missed throws that could have been big plays and not been the clutch Tom Brady that we know, hes been throwing INTs in the 4th quarter and not being that clutch QB that he was. Randy Moss hasnt been at his best in games we have lost. With the exception of the Indy game he has been held to 1, 2, 4 and 5 catches in those games. Today he had the TD in the first and then disappeared. He needs to step up and find ways to get open on his own and make big plays. I know its hard to point fingers at particular people, but these are the leaders of our team and are under performing so they deserve to be called out

Some of the recent posts here are quite heartwarming.

 

[The Dynasty]

Some of the recent posts here are quite heartwarming.

What do you mean? What are you trying to say?