Is there really no one out there better than Hanson?

[ctpatsfan77]

Avg. distance: 32nd (38.8 yards)

OTOH, if I were a gambler, I'd be willing to bet a dollar or two that Hanson's punts are starting off closer to the EZ than most punters'.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

OTOH, if I were a gambler, I'd be willing to bet a dollar or two that Hanson's punts are starting off closer to the EZ than most punters'.

yes, that's why i also included the data on kills within the 20 and touchbacks.

 

[Bostonian1962]

The bum kicks it in the end zone EVERY TIME.

Drives me nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PatsFanSince74]

[This post is neither to praise nor excoriate Hanson; it's to make a relevant point. In particular, all examples are hypothetical, and not based on any specific real punter.]

Talking about punting average, in and of itself, is actually a relative meaningless statistic. As an example, consider these two punters:

Punter A: 35-yard net average
Punter B: 40-yard net average

You'd say punter B is the better punter, yes?

But what if I told you that Punter A's punts start with the ball at the opponent's 48, while Punter B's punts start at the team's own 38?

Would you still say punter B is the better punter?

While I think net yardage has its uses—after all, if a punter simply can't move the ball 30 yards, that's worth noting—but I'd supplement it with net percentage, what percentage of the distance to the opposing goal line did the kick travel? For example, a 40-yard punt from the 50 to the opponent's 10 (80%) is better than a 40-yard punt from your own 10 to midfield (44%).

the way that's captured is by touchbacks and kills within the 20...if you're punting for a team with no offense and are punting from inside your own 40 yardline typically, you have to be a punter who can boom the ball long and high...if you're punting for a team with a good offense and are typically punting from the opponents side of the field, you have to be able to pin him inside his own 20...

 

[Synovia]

If that is the biggest complaint of the day.. you ain't paying attention, most teams & fans would like this to be their biggest problem

So, because other parts of the Patriots are good, we can't discuss the Punter?

 

[chris66]

Hanson was killer last year dropping balls inside the ten

 

[shmessy]

OTOH, if I were a gambler, I'd be willing to bet a dollar or two that Hanson's punts are starting off closer to the EZ than most punters'.

Then it would be a simple progression to assume he WOULDN'T be tied for 25th for "downed inside the 20" punts!

Honestly, THAT RIGHT THERE is a bigger indictment than his low yardage stats.

He's been horrible so far, but it is also mentally horrible. What does it take to pooch punt from the opponent's 40 at least 25 yards out of bounds? Or hit it straight up in the air 21 yards?

 

[bresna]

I'd love to hear what BB has to say about the # of TBs by Hanson.

From his post game press conference (at around the 7:00 mark): Bill Belichick Postgame Press Conference


Q: [On kicking the ball high as opposed to going for the sidelines]

BB: Yeah, I think you hardly see anybody go for the sidelines anymore.

Q: Why is that?

BB: Because everybody's doing that rugby punt, and when the ball goes end over end, most of the time it doesn't bounce much, it either hits and bounces back, or it kind of sticks. I couldn't see them, but it looks like both of them were pretty close, they rolled in by a yard or two.

Q: So he kicked them too far?

BB: Obviously.

Q: So that is what you wanted him to do, hang the ball high?

BB: Yeah, put the ball up in the air and make them fair catch it. Or if they let it go a lot times those balls just backspin.

Q: Why is it different now than it was in the 1980s?

BB: Show me a punter who coffin corners. No, you don't see it. They don't do it. They do the Aussie punts. Certainly, wind plays into that and - generally speaking - we very seldom see that and I can't remember a punter ... We had [Dave] Jennings at the Giants, we did a lot of it [and] Dave was very good at it. Brian Hansen at Cleveland was good at it, [Tom] Tupa. It seems like that's been a trend. Like I said, show me a guy who does it, and a lot of them have gone to the rugby punt and it's been effective. You get it up there higher, less chance of it bouncing into the end zone you just have to make sure you don't kick it too far.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Great thread. The histrionic title and some of the early posts and silly bickering notwithstanding, some very interesting stat-based points have been made. Here are my thoughts on the thread in no particular order.

1) I think Belichick clearly is correct that the Aussie kick is a much better option than the sideline kick from a risk/reward and execution standpoint.

2) Hanson is good at the Aussie kick. He's having trouble with distance right now, unfortunately, but his hang time and execution on the kick that goes sideways or backwards after it bounces is very very good.

3) Shmessy seems to me to be entirely correct that there is at least evidence that Hanson may not fully understand situational football.

4) The sample size is currently too small for me to judge Hanson's abilities this year. The stats are very bad right now. But, see point 2 above. If he can correct his distance issues he plainly has potential to be a slightly above-average kicker like he was last year. Add in that he has other special teams duties that he does well and it's worth having him on the team.

5) My problem with Hanson is not that he is a bad football player. But he certainly did make a bad football play on Sunday. With a six point lead late in the fourth quarter, punting from the Ravens' 39 yardline, you simply cannot put the ball in the end zone. End of story. Unacceptable. But everyone makes a bad play or two during the season. You're allowed a bad play. It doesn't mean you're a bad football player. One or two more, and then there are issues.

 

[Synovia]

5) My problem with Hanson is not that he is a bad football player. But he certainly did make a bad football play on Sunday. With a six point lead late in the fourth quarter, punting from the Ravens' 39 yardline, you simply cannot put the ball in the end zone. End of story. Unacceptable. But everyone makes a bad play or two during the season. You're allowed a bad play. It doesn't mean you're a bad football player. One or two more, and then there are issues.

The real big problem is, once you get inside the 40, you're probably better off going for it (unless its 4th and 10+) than punting if your punter can't consistently keep the ball out of the endzone.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

I'm going to re-post some stats from last year found in this thread: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...10/223354-there-no-way-hanson-makes-team.html

However, I will note the fact that BB himself has said that there has been a changed in strategy concerning coffin kicks/aussie kicks.

Still, there is no denying that Hanson has been historically bad (this year and last year for sure) at pinning opponents inside their 20.

Should he be replaced next year? I would lean towards that, but we are stuck with him for this season so let's hope he improves over last year.

2008 NE Patriot Punting Facts:

50 punts: 9 OutBnds, 7 Dwnd, 10 TchBcks, 13 FairCtch, 11 Rtrnd
Longest punt: 70 yds
Average punt: 44 yds (Tied for 15th)
Net Average: 36.8 yds (20th)
20 punts resulted in oppenent inside their 20 yd line (27th - see info below)
0 TDs
0 Blocked punts

Positives:

40% of all punts were a FC or Dwnd and an additional 18% (9 punts out of bounds) were probably coffin kicks.

40% of punts left the opponent inside their own 20 yd line.

No punts were blocked or returned for TDs.


Negatives:

20% of Hanson's punts were TBs (10 TBs on 50 punts). Unacceptable!

33.3% of his punts that were targeted for inside the 20 yd line resulted in TBs (10 out of 30).
-- That ranks 27th in the league. Only 4 teams had a worse %. Sea was tied with us.
-- The best: Colts 8.7%, Bengels: 10.7%, and Bears: 12.5%

14+ yds/punt average return is bad.

Net average punt of 36.8 yds ranks 20th in the league.
-- Note: 60% of Hanson's punts were targeted for inside the 20 yd line which will skew towards shorter punts.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Yeah, the only time he doesn't kick it in is when the Patriots are inside their own 30. Then he shanks it.

Moron.

Last season the Pats defended only ten Punt returns. Every other punt some 40 or them resulted, in either a FC, punt out of bounds, or a touchback. The Pats gave up only one long return, and that did not result in a TD return.

The proportion of punts downed inside the 20 led the league.

Now I will agree that Hansen could have had a better day than yesterday, but then the Ravens did not have a long punt return that altered the game, either.

If you don't know what you are talking about Please shut up. Tossing your epithet back at you.