If We Could Have Last Key Player

[tunafish]

Yah

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

You seem to have no concept of discounted value. Why not trade Seymour for a 2013 1st?
The reality is that each year a draft choice is dimished by one round.
======================================================
It is VERY LIKELY that Belichick would have been able to move on of our 2010 seconds forward to a 2011 first. How many firsts do you think Belichick wants each year. Sure, Belichick will do well with the pick. But that pick may be no different than the two 2009 3rds Belichick traded into 2010 2nds, one of which might have been traded into a 2011 first.

In fact, apparently Belichick was offered a 2010 second, but wanted the 2011 first insteade, in essense doing the 2010 draft day trade ahead of time.

The bottom line is Seymour was dumped for the equivalent of a 2009 3rd round draft choice. Oh, and did I mention that we likely could have kept Seymour and gotten a 2011 3rd when he left.

All of this assumes you have willing partners in all of this.

If you want to get from A (where you are at now) ------> D (where you want to get), the less steps you have to make, the better. Your assuming with all all those "steps" the BB felt he could get to the same spot then just making this trade and already being there.

It's not as simple as trading this for that (x3 or 4 in this case), cuz stuff the sh!t can go wrong at each step.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

A lot of comments here that want to turn the Raiders pick into something now. What would possibly be the point of that? Pick up someone like Ware (who Dallas will not give up) and spend HUGE money for him? Asomugha? That guy is guaranteed almost 30 mil over the next two seasons, and if you keep him for 2011 you have to pay him 17 mil or the franchise tag price for a QB.

Too weird. The last couple of days people were anxious that this was the sign Wilfork would get extended now because of money, and now people want to go spend that very money elsewhere and bring us back to stage one.

On top of all of this is the strong chance that this pick is gone by the end of the 2010 draft weekend to another team.

I do give kudos to MG for starting a sarcasm thread that evolved into a discussion. Nice sleight of hand.

 

[patriotscpfc]

I think he has been playing too much Madden.

I end up with 4 1sts, 4 2nds and 2 3rds every year on Madden.

It's not real life though.

Bill liked 2nd rounders in 09 and will again in 2010. That's because of the high contracts. If he could trade the whole draft into 2011, he would bar the odd pick.

 

[Deus Irae]

I wouldn't underestimate the rookie seasons of messrs. Mayo and Seymour.

Of course, they (probably, re Mayo) don't hit a peak in year one. I'll take Mayo's and Seymour's rookie seasons over the 2009 Seymour any day.....and twice on Sunday.

That's fine, but that's not what I'd asserted. Also, even within the bounds of your post, I would point to Mayo's struggles in pass coverage as an example of why you need the time for these players to develop.

 

[condon84]

Once the Seymour trade is official, we should try to trade back for him for a 5th round. Who knows?

 

[tunafish]

That's fine, but that's not what I'd asserted. Also, even within the bounds of your post, I would point to Mayo's struggles in pass coverage as an example of why you need the time for these players to develop.

I wouldn't say he has struggled at all in pass coverage for a LB...

 

[GullyFoyle]

I take back my earlier answer.

Who I would trade it for.

Larry Fitzgerald.
Adrian Peterson.
Ryan Clady (taking age into account)
Peppers
Freeney (since we are 4-3)
Patrick Willis
DeMarcus Ware
Nnamdi Asomugha/Asante Samuel
Ed Reed.

That's pretty much it.

Asante Samuell? He does not belong on that list

 

[patriotscpfc]

Youngish.

One of the top corners in the game.

He belongs on the list.

 

[mcmurtry86]

I take back my earlier answer.

Who I would trade it for.

Larry Fitzgerald.
Adrian Peterson.
Ryan Clady (taking age into account)
Peppers
Freeney (since we are 4-3)
Patrick Willis
DeMarcus Ware
Nnamdi Asomugha/Asante Samuel
Ed Reed.

That's pretty much it.

Not DeMeco Ryans?

 

[TomPatriot]

I would trade the 2011 pick for a ball hawking DB.

Ed Reed says hello.

 

[mgteich]

We have bingo!

Correct.

Therefore that pick for Seymour is a bargain.

 

[mgteich]

So you think that Belichick would have been unable to use Seymour's talents is his 2009 defense? ??????????????

Let's not forget that all of this assumes that BB is using a defensive scheme in which Seymour would be used (for the same amount of reps), that he has in the past.

1) I don't think the evidence supports that, and in fact in a ton of other "Seymour" thread, indications are the opposite.

Only 1 person (okay perhaps a few) know really how our defense will scheme this year and have all of the information to know how ANY of our D-linemen will project into it.

will we be having a little more aggressive, stunting 4-3 setup that requires a little less bulk and more speed on the end in more situations. If that's the case, Jarvis's stock goes up a little, and Seymour's goes down.

Not saying that's what's gonna happen, but the reality is that the D-line is a series of moving parts, and the premise that BB just arbitrarily got rid of someone and deliberately hurt the team is just silly. It's one thing to get caught of guard with a "Branch" scenario, another to make a deliberate move like this.

The fact that Wilfork was also mentioned in all this tells me that whatever roll they may have filled over the last few seasons, may not exactly be the same as what BB is looking to do. Ditto Vrabel or anyone else that ain't here from last year.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Not DeMeco Ryans?

Maybe, but how does he vary to Mayo?

I also think that Willis is far and away the best MLB/ILB in the game. And you look back a long way for the next one that isn't a murderer.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

So you think that Belichick would have been unable to use Seymour's talents is his 2009 defense? ??????????????

Did I say that? Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?

I don't think BB thinks in terms of individual players when constructing his defense. He hasn't in the past. He decides what he wants and then makes sure he has players that fit that scheme. He knows what he wanted and for whatever reason, Seymour was expendable in it, at least to the potential level of a 2011 1st round pick.

Time will tell if that is correct or not.

 

[mgteich]

Of course Belichick can develop a defense with out Seymour this year, and without Wilfork for that matter.

The open question is why he would want to.

Did I say that? Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?

I don't think BB thinks in terms of individual players when constructing his defense. He hasn't in the past. He decides what he wants and then makes sure he has players that fit that scheme. He knows what he wanted and for whatever reason, Seymour was expendable in it, at least to the potential level of a 2011 1st round pick.

Time will tell if that is correct or not.

 

[mgteich]

Of course Belichick can develop a defense with out Seymour this year, and without Wilfork for that matter.

The open question is why he would want to. And yes, we will find out in the playoffs or the Super Bowl.

Did I say that? Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?

I don't think BB thinks in terms of individual players when constructing his defense. He hasn't in the past. He decides what he wants and then makes sure he has players that fit that scheme. He knows what he wanted and for whatever reason, Seymour was expendable in it, at least to the potential level of a 2011 1st round pick.

Time will tell if that is correct or not.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Of course Belichick can develop a defense with out Seymour this year, and without Wilfork for that matter.

The open question is why he would want to. And yes, we will find out in the playoffs or the Super Bowl.

Listening to him (BB) now on WEEI. Interesting, and so far. Not saying much, but at that same time, he is.

I'll get back to you.

 

[captain stone]

DeMarcus Ware;

Nnamdi Asomugha;

Ed Reed;

Ryan Clady.

 

[Kontradiction]

By the way, I would go for a monster LT.

Damnit shmessy, you stole the words right out of my mouth! I REALLY wanted Clady after 2007 but they decided not to draft him. It looks like we MAY have a monster LT in SeaBass (well, at least a monster at this point) but we don't know yet what we're going to get out of him. He has potential, but so did Chad Jackson.

The only other position on this team that I would upgrade outside of that is an OLB to be lined up on the other side of A.D. that would make us all forget about Vrabel.

mgteich, we get it. You're not happy with the deal. :spygate: