Patriots trading Richard Seymour to the Raiders!!!

[mgteich]

If you believe that the team went 17-2 BECAUSE Belichick cut Milloy in the week before the season, then I should remember not to read your analyses of other issues.

Originally Posted by mgteich
Everyone loves the dynasty and all that Bill has built.

Are you really saying that the firing of one of the most respected players in the history of the patriots one week before the season was a positive? Did making it clear that Belichick didn't care what anyone thought was a positive? Do you remember Bruschi's comments?
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17-2.

Ended the season with 15 consecutive wins.

Super Bowl 38 Championship

Please, gimme more 'non-positive' moves like that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Miguel, there were at least 3 news articles that came out at the time that said that Law had refused to negotiate because he didn't want to take a "pay cut."

That wasn't in 2002. That was in 2003. He refused their extension and restructure offer and played 2004 under the terms of his existing deal. Then he was gone in his wheelchair (with Steve Burton driving him to the airport...) in the spring of 2005 after asking for his early release.

 

[shmessy]

If you believe that the team went 17-2 BECAUSE Belichick cut Milloy in the week before the season, then I should remember not to read your analyses of other issues.

How did it hurt them, Mg?

Was that the year they could have gone 19-0?

Would Rodney have been Rodney if he had to platoon?

Would they have been as good in 2004 and further if they had kept Milloy and his high cap?

I'm sorry if these points anger you so. No need to get personal.

 

[mgteich]

Absolutely, Law wanted absolutely no deal that reduced his compensation.

Miguel, there were at least 3 news articles that came out at the time that said that Law had refused to negotiate because he didn't want to take a "pay cut."

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Originally Posted by mgteich
Everyone loves the dynasty and all that Bill has built.

Are you really saying that the firing of one of the most respected players in the history of the patriots one week before the season was a positive? Did making it clear that Belichick didn't care what anyone thought was a positive? Do you remember Bruschi's comments?........Please believe that the Milloy firing is remembered by every patriot at the time and every patriot since. It is part of the character of Bill Belichick. There is the good, the bad and the ugly in the best coach in the history of the NFL."
______________________________________

17-2.

Ended the season with 15 consecutive wins.

Super Bowl 38 Championship

Please, gimme more 'non-positive' moves like that.

Umm.....who cares how he players reacted in the immediate aftermath? Sure, i remember Bruschi's comments back then. I also remember a very emotional Brady radio interview from his Charletown apartment that day (Ty Law was in the background on a couch).

All those guys did was cry and moan for the next two years, winning 21 straight games and two SB's.

They'll survive the heartache.

At times I confuse mg for that clown on ESPN who determined "they hate their coach". Another big non positive had to be the way they rose to their HC's defense out of the gate in 2007. Way to kick a guy you secretly do hate when he's down and the league hands you the perfect excuse to, I guess - win 18 straight...:ugh:

 

[Miguel]

Miguel, there were at least 3 news articles that came out at the time that said that Law had refused to negotiate because he didn't want to take a "pay cut."

Taking a pay cut is different that converting most of his salary into a signing bonus.

The Pats could have converting most of Ty Law's salary into a signing bonus if they wanted the cap space.

 

[mgteich]

I have no problem with the decision of Belichick to cut or trade a player, although I might never understand the decision. However, in the case of Milloy, that was not and is not my issue. It also wasn't the issue of the players at the time. At least a dozen times, Belichick has cut veteran players and given them the courtesy of having at least a little time to get another job elsewhere and to give his players a bit of time to get used to the situation. Cutting Milloy the week before the first game was spiteful and vindictive. It had nothing to do with football. There were many better ways to handle the cut. The cut clearly cost the team the first game. To the credit of Belichick and the players, the issue was then put behind them.

In Seymour's situation, the team has been in negotiations for months over various players. Perhaps Seymour threatened to sit out if he didn't get an extension and Belichick pulled the trigger on the trade.

BB was giving Milloy every opportunity to become accountable again because he couldn't believe his football soul-mate had lost his heart. Milloy later admitted that he was immature at the time. He rested on his single ring laurels and expected to collect the same paycheck they reserve for achievers in this meritocracy. On top of that he was becoming a club house lawyer admonishing the youngsters (including the second year player Seymour) to get your props and your money. In hindsight, two rings later, the players on this team who get it got it. Including Brady who on many occasions since has lauded this FO for their financial discipline. And Bruschi, who didn't look like a guy who harbored any ill will towards his HC last week, did he.

Interestingly Dimitroff cut him in Atlanta this season for many of the same reasons.

BB will give consideration to the guy who maxes out in effort even as his skills erode. Those guys get cut or traded early. Not the guy who has let Bill and his entire team down because he was selfish and immature. That guy goes last. Unfortunately the damage is often already done. Lawyer's legacy of selfishness lives on through Seymour, Branch, and Samuel.

 

[Miguel]

Absolutely, Law wanted absolutely no deal that reduced his compensation.

Why should have Law who was in the prime years of his career agreed to a pay cut when he came off a Pro Bowl season in 2002???

Refusing to negotiate to lower your cap number is different than refusing to accept a paycut.

 

[mgteich]

As I did then, I strongly agree with all that you posted. If indeed Law did refuse to lower his cap, he used the only leverage he had other than sitting out.

Why should have Law who was in the prime years of his career agreed to a pay cut when he came off a Pro Bowl season in 2002???

Refusing to negotiate to lower your cap number is different than refusing to accept a paycut.

 

[Miguel]

As I did then, I strongly agree with all that you posted. If indeed Law did refuse to lower his cap, he used the only leverage he had other than sitting out.

Out of you and DaBruinz, I select DaBruinz as the person who is engaging in revisionist history.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

For those who think that the loss of Seymour won't be felt:

Adjusted Line Yards for running on the Pats (and ranking)

Left End: 4.30 (20th)
Left Tackle: 2.88 (2nd) <--- Seymour
Mid/Guard: 4.18 (14th) <-- Wilfork
Right Tackle: 4.26 (22nd) <-- Warren
Right End: 4.41 (24th)

Which of these numbers is not like the other? Since most people only seem to evaluate defensive players for their sack totals, Seymour doesn't get anywhere near his due, because his greatest value is in that he absolutely shuts down the run. It's impossible to run behind the left tackle when Seymour's playing.

So basically, we just lost our best run-stopper and our top pass-rusher on the DL. AKA, the MVP of our defense. I get that we got value for him before he walked, but don't be surprised when our run defense suddenly becomes a problem this year. Maybe Belichick's banking on our opponents playing from too far behind to exploit Seymour's absence against the run, but this isn't going to help us win any games in january...

Um, most teams have trouble running to the left side. Left tackles typically protect the QB a lot better than they can run block. Don't forget, Sey didn't even play on 3rd downs last year.

 

[TomPatriot]

I have no problem with the decision of Belichick to cut or trade a player, although I might never understand the decision. However, in the case of Milloy, that was not and is not my issue. It also wasn't the issue of the players at the time. At least a dozen times, Belichick has cut veteran players and given them the courtesy of having at least a little time to get another job elsewhere and to give his players a bit of time to get used to the situation. Cutting Milloy the week before the first game was spiteful and vindictive. It had nothing to do with football. There were many better ways to handle the cut. The cut clearly cost the team the first game. To the credit of Belichick and the players, the issue was then put behind them.

This is simply wrong. The Pats and Carl Poston try to negotiate a restructuring for months. Poston then asked that Milloy be released just before the last preseason game and was already negotiating with other teams well before the release. Milloy got a raise when he signed with the Bills, earning $7m in 2003, so he really never had much of a gripe. He pocketed a $10m bonus when he signed the 2000 deal and he took the bulk of it from Ben Coates, who was cut for cap reasons. Milloy's skills had begun to decline in 2002 and he never made the Pro Bowl again after he left the Pats.

I'd love to be treated so badly.

 

[mgteich]

Please post anything that suggests that Poston was given permission by the patriots to negotiate with other teams and that he asked that Milloy be released right before the first game instead of earlier which would have helped Milloy and his new team.

This is simply wrong. The Pats and Carl Poston try to negotiate a restructuring for months. Poston then asked that Milloy be released just before the last preseason game and was already negotiating with other teams well before the release. Milloy got a raise when he signed with the Bills, earning $7m in 2003, so he really never had much of a gripe. He pocketed a $10m bonus when he signed the 2000 deal and he took the bulk of it from Ben Coates, who was cut for cap reasons. Milloy's skills had begun to decline in 2002 and he never made the Pro Bowl again after he left the Pats.

I'd love to be treated so badly.

 

[SteveBsFan]

My comments are arrogant because I call you out for your spewings and use FACT to show how clueless you are? That is the typical response of someone who basically got caught making claims they new weren't true. They always deflect away from the truth.

So you are not a 14 year old girl? My other guess is a forum hero. You live to point out inaccuracies in peoples posts, and instead of being tactful, you need to swoop in and show the world your MASSIVE football knowledge... amirite?

You were basically a **** to me from the first post because, yes, I may have misspoke on his expectations. The other guy (not you, mr football guru) helped me see that, due to having an ounce of tact in his posts.

Maybe Seymour did live up to expectations.. i've always gotten the impression he didn't, but perhaps i'm wrong. You got your panties in a bunch by that statement and ASSumed I have no real football knowledge when you couldn't be more wrong. Of course I know about gaps, 3-4, the roles on teams, etc. That's why I never mentioned Seymours stats, because I know his role is not to get the pretty sack totals.

That's the part that made you sound like an arrogant ****. Oh no, someone got something wrong, let's swoop in with my patsfans cape on, and try to pretend i'm smarter than I actually am and rip the guy a new one for saying something wrong!!

I've been around message boards before, i've seen countless posters like yourself. You're a tired act really.

 

[Synovia]

Um, most teams have trouble running to the left side. Left tackles typically protect the QB a lot better than they can run block.

Last I checked, the patriots run better to the left than the right. Actually, a lot of teams do.

 

[Synovia]

Maybe Seymour did live up to expectations.. i've always gotten the impression he didn't, but perhaps i'm wrong. You got your panties in a bunch by that statement and ASSumed I have no real football knowledge when you couldn't be more wrong. Of course I know about gaps, 3-4, the roles on teams, etc. That's why I never mentioned Seymours stats, because I know his role is not to get the pretty sack totals.

You're talking about a guy who is probably a first ballot hall of famer and saying he didn't live up to expectations.

 

[Synovia]

Please post anything that suggests that Poston was given permission by the patriots to negotiate with other teams and that he asked that Milloy be released right before the first game instead of earlier which would have helped Milloy and his new team.

YOu know, there have been agents who have talked to other teams without permission, right?

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Last I checked, the patriots run better to the left than the right. Actually, a lot of teams do.

Between the guard and the center..... maybe. Do you really disupute the fact that left tackles are typically valued much more for pass protection than run blcoking? Cuz it's the left tackle Sey will play against most often.

 

[Synovia]

Between the guard and the center..... maybe. Do you really disupute the fact that left tackles are typically valued much more for pass protection than run blcoking? Cuz it's the left tackle Sey will play against most often.

Valued more, yes, but thats not the same as saying they're not good at it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You're talking about a guy who is probably a first ballot hall of famer and saying he didn't live up to expectations.

There was only one potential first ballot HOF'er on this roster yesterday and his name wasn't Richard Seymour. There is only one other HOF lock in the organization and he wears a hoodie and not a uniform.

Seymour appeared to be on track for the HOF through 2004. He hasn't been back on that track since. Kinda like Law. It's debateable whether he can regain it from Oakland and he will be turning 31 before he plays for someone else. He had his knees scoped again this offseason. That will probably become a recurring theme going forward. Maybe if he'd dealt with them sooner rather than conducting a holdout in 2005 and struggling through 2006 after he cashed his $18M option bonus only to miss half of 2007 he would not only be a lock but would have finished his career closer to where his kids were in school (although when it suited him his home town was in South Carolina as he reminded us...).