Early impressions

[Synovia]

If they had given Julian Edelman #83 instead of #11, I doubt anyone would have known that Welker missed the game. It kind of makes me wonder if ANY slot WR in THAT offense, with THAT QB couldn't grab 100 balls a season.

I liked what I saw from Edelman, but I don't agree with that. Edelman dropped a couple balls, and doesn't read downfield nearly as well as Welker. In the same role, at his present skills, he might catch 100 balls, but it would be for 600 yards instead of Welker's 1200. Could just be rookie jitters though...

 

[patfanken]

Great post, but one severe error.
The PI on Asante has to be called, 100% of the time. He grabbed Moss arms before the ball got there preventing him from being able to make the catch. Early is early grabbing him a full second before the ball gets there isnt different than grabbing his arm when the ball is 2 inches away.

Yeah, Andy, I got a better look at, seeing a replay on NFL.com. It was PI. I guess I'm just an old defensive guy sticking up for his Bros.

 

[patfanken]

I liked what I saw from Edelman, but I don't agree with that. Edelman dropped a couple balls, and doesn't read downfield nearly as well as Welker. In the same role, at his present skills, he might catch 100 balls, but it would be for 600 yards instead of Welker's 1200. Could just be rookie jitters though...

Looks like we watched different games, though you make be right in this respect. Welker with 6 years in the NFL and 4 years as a college WR, just MIGHT be able to read defenses better than a guy who was a QB last season.

 

[old 55]

Watching this on NFL network on the delay, I found it was hard to keep track of who did what since the feed was from the Philly guys who didn't talk about any of the Pats except Brady, Moss and Edelman.
Their only good call was a caution on the re-kick for the punt that Edelman returned for a TD. One of the guys said that re-kicks are dangerous because the coverage guys are still a bit gassed from the prior play.
The other reasonable comment they made was that Brady didn't step into the throw on the INT. The replay proved this to be true.

Baker did look very comfortable catching Brady's throws. I don't know if he was so wide open by play design or mistake by the Iggles, but he had all the time in the world on some off those plays. I've been reading about Edelman from your camp reports and it was great to see him play with the 1st string against their 1st string. Kid looks like the real deal. Gotta find a spot for him.
Should be in NH next week for the next game and it will be nice to hear a pro Patriots broadcast team for that one.

 

[patfanken]

So what are you going to say when they use the 4-3 against the Bengals next Thursday?

You seem to be holding out hope that the Pats are suddenly going to switch back to the 3-4 within the week. It's not going to happen Deus; I've been telling you this for a week now.

If you go back over the last 9 years, BB has consistently used the 4-3 in certain situations. The use of the 4-3 now has more to do with seeing how certain player's skill can be utilized, and to see how they react. Over all, I think the DL did well. The LBs...not so much. Its different. We will see it this year. But BB isn't going to throw away his the basic concepts of his defense, with is 2gap from a 3-4 alignment, just to satisfy YOUR egomania.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's nice. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

You seem to love Maroney, as do others. I don't like Maroney, as others don't.

Time will tell which group was right. So far, the proof is in the pudding. They picked up Morris and Jordan, and now Fred Taylor. Shows you how much faith they have in Maroney.

It has nothing to do with any 'love' for Maroney. I'm not the kind of fan who invests heavily in individual players, as a rule. It has to do with being capable of separating fact from fiction. Listening to the "he's a dancer!" people makes me chuckle, given that what's commonly called dancing here in New England is known as "avoiding would-be tacklers" throughout the rest of the football playing world.

 

[patchick]

I liked what I saw from Edelman, but I don't agree with that. Edelman dropped a couple balls, and doesn't read downfield nearly as well as Welker. In the same role, at his present skills, he might catch 100 balls, but it would be for 600 yards instead of Welker's 1200. Could just be rookie jitters though...

I don't think that anybody's suggesting that Edelman is the receiver Welker is at this point, that would be foolish. But the fact that he did a reasonable imitation given his lack of experience at the position, coupled with his athleticism, attitude, and the way the team has been treating him is incredibly promising. Also, I didn't see him come close to dropping anything.

 

[everlong]

If Welker went down last year we didn't have a receiver who fit his skill set. Gaffney, Aiken and Washington can't even comes close. With Edelman you can see a guy who can possibly give you 75% of what Welker does. Depth like that is hard to come by and really makes me feel a lot better about the teams chances.

Plus if you go 4 wide with Moss and Galloway outside and Welker and Edelman in the two slots talk about match up problems galore.

 

[pats1]

If you go back over the last 9 years, BB has consistently used the 4-3 in certain situations. The use of the 4-3 now has more to do with seeing how certain player's skill can be utilized, and to see how they react. Over all, I think the DL did well. The LBs...not so much. Its different. We will see it this year. But BB isn't going to throw away his the basic concepts of his defense, with is 2gap from a 3-4 alignment, just to satisfy YOUR egomania.

You seem to implying what Deus was, and that is that Belichick was only using the 4-3 against the Eagles because of McNabb and that he'll return to 3-4 as some point this preseason or early in the regular season. What I'm saying is that Belichick has made the full-time switch to the 4-3 for this season, and that it is not just a situational depature from the norm - as in "back over the last 9 years".

Again, so when the 4-3 is used for the entire Bengals game in six days, what are we going to say? That it's only a game-by-game decision based on containing Carson Palmer?

C'mon. If it gives his team the best chance to win this year, Belichick will (and I argue has) decide to "throw away the basic concepts of his defense." Hell, we could see the 3-4 return in 2010, but for the time being, there has been a significant shift in the defensive scheme, and it was not based on playing the Eagles.

And I've been as ardent a supporter of the 3-4 and as harsh a critic of the 4-3 proponents over the past few seasons, so you can call me an "egomaniac" all you want. That doesn't change at all the fact that the Pats are using a 4-3 base defense this season. I don't own stock in the 4-3, so my only point in posting this is to simply disprove the oft-heard theories that the Pats will miraculously use a 3-4 base defense starting last week in practice, um, the Eagles game, um next week.

 

[everlong]

You seem to implying what Deus was, and that is that Belichick was only using the 4-3 against the Eagles because of McNabb and that he'll return to 3-4 as some point this preseason or early in the regular season. What I'm saying is that Belichick has made the full-time switch to the 4-3 for this season, and that it is not just a situational depature from the norm - as in "back over the last 9 years".

Again, so when the 4-3 is used for the entire Bengals game in six days, what are we going to say? That it's only a game-by-game decision based on containing Carson Palmer?

C'mon. If it gives his team the best chance to win this year, Belichick will (and I argue has) decide to "throw away the basic concepts of his defense." Hell, we could see the 3-4 return in 2010, but for the time being, there has been a significant shift in the defensive scheme, and it was not based on playing the Eagles.

I agree. If before it was 75-25 3-4 to 4-3 ratio I think it'll be reversed. I think the reason is because it's a pass happy league where the rules benefit those who do pass.

 

[Frezo]

We agree. I think that BB just wanted to get a look at how players in a 4-3 looked. I'm sure we aren't changing our base D. Now is the time to do sh!t like that.

Didn't the local halftime announcer say that BB told him that Pees was going to run a 4-3 this year? I could have sworn he said that.

 

[pats1]

Didn't the local halftime announcer say that BB told him that Pees was going to run a 4-3 this year? I could have sworn he said that.

Yes, Randy Cross said Belichick told him Pees would run the 4-3 "almost exclusively" this year.

 

[patchick]

Didn't the local halftime announcer say that BB told him that Pees was going to run a 4-3 this year? I could have sworn he said that.

Jonathan Kraft said something similar on a pregame radio interview (though it wasn't 100% clear whether he was talking about the game or the season).

When you look at all of training camp, and at the roster jam-packed with lineman and lighter on LBs, it's hard to escape the conclusion that this is a 4-3 defense of some stripe. It also throws new light on some then-puzzling draft decisions. Verrrry interesting.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Yes, Randy Cross said Belichick told him Pees would run the 4-3 "almost exclusively" this year.

:wha:

Is this sarcasm, or did BB actually say this?

 

[shmessy]

I don't think that anybody's suggesting that Edelman is the receiver Welker is at this point, that would be foolish. But the fact that he did a reasonable imitation given his lack of experience at the position, coupled with his athleticism, attitude, and the way the team has been treating him is incredibly promising. Also, I didn't see him come close to dropping anything.

Plus, I bet he has a waaaayyy better arm than Welker.

How many swing out throws going behind the line of scrimmage could we see in the future from Brady to Edelman who can then chuck it downfield? If I were an opposing D Coord, I now have another headache when prepping for the Pats. When Edelman goes in motion, half the opposing D will have to shift for him and for coverage of the other WRs.

 

[patfanken]

You seem to implying what Deus was, and that is that Belichick was only using the 4-3 against the Eagles because of McNabb and that he'll return to 3-4 as some point this preseason or early in the regular season. What I'm saying is that Belichick has made the full-time switch to the 4-3 for this season, and that it is not just a situational depature from the norm - as in "back over the last 9 years".

Well Deus might be right, but I think we used the 4-3 because BB wants to see how some people would react in that alignment. However if you think that BB "has made the full time switch to the 4-3 for the season, then you are just flat out WRONG. Sorry but you don't throw out 9 years of technique and responsibilities because you like Myron Pryor, Ron Brace. and Derrick Burgess is a 4-3 DE.

Again, so when the 4-3 is used for the entire Bengals game in six days, what are we going to say? That it's only a game-by-game decision based on containing Carson Palmer?

No, I'll say its just preseason and this is the time to experiment with things you might use down the road.

C'mon. If it gives his team the best chance to win this year, Belichick will (and I argue has) decide to "throw away the basic concepts of his defense." Hell, we could see the 3-4 return in 2010, but for the time being, there has been a significant shift in the defensive scheme, and it was not based on playing the Eagles.

What makes you think that the 4-3 one gap, is the best chance for this team to win. Please take your time and answer completely. Believe me, I think BB WILL use the 4-3 this year. Just like he's done EVERY year he's been here. But to opine that BB is in the process of RADICALLY changing his defensive concept, quite frankly, is off the wall.

And I've been as ardent a supporter of the 3-4 and as harsh a critic of the 4-3 proponents over the past few seasons, so you can call me an "egomaniac" all you want. That doesn't change at all the fact that the Pats are using a 4-3 base defense this season. I don't own stock in the 4-3, so my only point in posting this is to simply disprove the oft-heard theories that the Pats will miraculously use a 3-4 base defense starting last week in practice, um, the Eagles game, um next week.

The egomania part has nothing to do with your position, but it has everything to do with the fact you seem intent to prove to everyone that you are RIGHT and they are WRONG. In other words...its all about YOU.

 

[pats1]

:wha:

Is this sarcasm, or did BB actually say this?

No, he did actually say that. I've already watched the game twice and remember hearing it again.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

I can't help but think that the PI on Moss should have been a noncall. Yeah Assante might have been a bit early, but not enough to make it a 40 yd penalty.

I thought the same at first, but on replay I thought Assante grabbed his arm before the ball got there. How's the WR supposed to catch the ball if the DB is allowed to grap his arms? I plan to rewatch the game tonight, so I will look at that play again. I could be wrong.

 

[pats1]

Well Deus might be right, but I think we used the 4-3 because BB wants to see how some people would react in that alignment. However if you think that BB "has made the full time switch to the 4-3 for the season, then you are just flat out WRONG. Sorry but you don't throw out 9 years of technique and responsibilities because you like Myron Pryor, Ron Brace. and Derrick Burgess is a 4-3 DE.

No, I'll say its just preseason and this is the time to experiment with things you might use down the road.

What makes you think that the 4-3 one gap, is the best chance for this team to win. Please take your time and answer completely. Believe me, I think BB WILL use the 4-3 this year. Just like he's done EVERY year he's been here. But to opine that BB is in the process of RADICALLY changing his defensive concept, quite frankly, is off the wall.

The egomania part has nothing to do with your position, but it has everything to do with the fact you seem intent to prove to everyone that you are RIGHT and they are WRONG. In other words...its all about YOU.

My complete answer? Pierre Woods.

And we'll see who has egg on their face in about a month. We'll see who is "off the wall" and we'll see who is "flat out wrong."

I want you to record exactly how many times the Pats use a 3-4 alignment this season and then PM me in January with that number.

 

[Deus Irae]

How did I get to be the poster boy on this? I don't like the 4-3 anywhere near as much as the 3-4, I think this team's linebackers are at a big disadvantage in the 4-3, and I expected the team to use the 3-4 as the base again this year, but others were far more militant about it than I was.