Manning is more skilled than Brady? Please explain.

[apple strudel]

Cutting analysis and brilliant interpretation. You really mine the depths of his motivations on that one in breathtaking and unprecedented ways; it's really a marvel to behold, 720.

lmao - and what's funny is how wrong he is. I'm a cyclist for ****'s sake, and most weekend days I spend more calories than I take in. If anything I'm an underweight 165. :ugh:

 

[BradyFTW!]

Throw decisionmaking, pocket presence, and ability to read coverages and ability to read and counter blitzes in there and I think that's a pretty good start.

 

[Deus Irae]

Throw decisionmaking, pocket presence, and ability to read coverages and ability to read and counter blitzes in there and I think that's a pretty good start.

I assume that 'decision making' means, essentially, post-snap reads. If not, just let me know.

Accuracy
Arm strength
Leadership
Pocket presence/awareness
Pocket mobility
Pre-snap reads
Post-snap reads

Everyone please feel free to offer ideas to add or subtract from the list.

 

[feldspar]

I assume that 'decision making' means, essentially, post-snap reads. If not, just let me know.

Accuracy
Arm strength
Leadership
Pocket presence/awareness
Pocket mobility
Pre-snap reads
Post-snap reads

Everyone please feel free to offer ideas to add or subtract from the list.

You could offer your own opinion, you know.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Arm strength= Brady's good here, but he's not the best. Hard to say who is, exactly. There are a lot of guys with cannons, but between Brady and Manning I don't see a clear edge either way.

Accuracy= Pennington might actually be #1 here. Between Brady and Manning, I don't even really care to speculate who's better. They're both really, really good, and if one's better than the other then it's beyond my meager analytical skills to figure it out.

Manning, career: 63% passer outdoors (79 games), 65% passer indoors (97 games).
Brady, career: 63% passer outdoors (103 games), 67% passer indoors (10 games).

Too close to call, IMO. If I was going to give an edge, I'd give it to Brady, since Manning's had better receivers.

Decisionmaking= to clarify, this isn't about reading coverages and all that. It's about, once you've read the coverage, making the right decision with the ball. Analytically, it's hard to separate that from reading coverages, based on what we see as fans, so maybe it's better to wrap them up into post-snap reads. In either case, Brady's lower interception rate and significantly fewer postseason INTs, in particular, suggest that he's the best in the league at this.

Pocket presence= Cassel, despite being more mobile than Brady, got sacked 47 times last year. Brady's pocket awareness is without peer.

Ability to identify and counter blitzes= on one hand, Brady's gone on record as saying he likes being blitzed because it makes his job easier. On the other hand, a couple years ago teams pretty much just stopped blitzing the Colts since they knew how futile it was. Too close for me to call, at least.

Release= Don't know who's best, but between Brady and Manning, Manning's probably better.

Mobility= not coincidentally, none of the best QBs in the league are in the running for this, so you could make a case that it's a minor point, at best.

Taking a hit without going down= probably Roethlisberger. Between Brady and Manning, I'd give it to Manning since Brady's more likely to fumble in these situations.

Anyways, long story short, I'd say that accuracy, pre-snap reads, and post-snap reads are probably the most important of the attributes that we put forward, with pocket presence coming in next, followed by arm strength and quick release.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Also, for a link that might as well end this thread:

NFL coaches prefer Brady over Manning - Hashmarks - ESPN

 

[TriplecHamp]

You could offer your own opinion, you know.

that's against the rules. The Rules are as follows...

1) The Patriots are the best at everything they do and are perfect in every way.
2) Anybody who starts for the Patriots is the best at their respective position.
3) If a poster offers an opinion they must have "facts"* to support their argument....I mean opinion.
4) If perfect grammar is not used than the posters argument...I mean opinion are invalid and will be dismissed.
5) If a Pro-Patriots poster offers an opinion,that opinion shall be rehashed until new "facts" are invented...I mean presented
6) The last poster standing until thread is closed wins...unless that poster is not a Patriots homer...I mean fan.
*= facts can be changed from original only if it benefits a Pro-Patriots argument...I mean opinion

 

[apple strudel]

that's against the rules. The Rules are as follows...

1) The Patriots are the best at everything they do and are perfect in every way.
2) Anybody who starts for the Patriots is the best at their respective position.
3) If a poster offers an opinion they must have "facts"* to support their argument....I mean opinion.
4) If perfect grammar is not used than the posters argument...I mean opinion are invalid and will be dismissed.
5) If a Pro-Patriots poster offers an opinion,that opinion shall be rehashed until new "facts" are invented...I mean presented
6) The last poster standing until thread is closed wins...unless that poster is not a Patriots homer...I mean fan.
*= facts can be changed from original only if it benefits a Pro-Patriots argument...I mean opinion

ITP kid with no arguments blames others. More to follow.

Seriously, stick around kid. You're funny.

 

[Deus Irae]

that's against the rules. The Rules are as follows...

1) The Patriots are the best at everything they do and are perfect in every way.
2) Anybody who starts for the Patriots is the best at their respective position.
3) If a poster offers an opinion they must have "facts"* to support their argument....I mean opinion.
4) If perfect grammar is not used than the posters argument...I mean opinion are invalid and will be dismissed.
5) If a Pro-Patriots poster offers an opinion,that opinion shall be rehashed until new "facts" are invented...I mean presented
6) The last poster standing until thread is closed wins...unless that poster is not a Patriots homer...I mean fan.
*= facts can be changed from original only if it benefits a Pro-Patriots argument...I mean opinion

If you read the O.P., perhaps you'll understand why I'm not putting forth my opinion. Now, will you continue to troll until you get banned, or are you done with that nonsense?

 

[Patjew]

Your name is apple strudel....who names themselves after a food unless your fat? How am I a "Mr." yet you call me a kid?

You have "Ham" in your name.

 

[Ring 6]

This is the thing. I mean, in 2001, the year of the Patriots' first Super Bowl win, the Colts gave up 212 more points than the Patriots during the season...that's why they didn't even make the playoffs. The Colts gave up an astounding 486 points, dead last in the league as compared to the Patriots giving up 272 points.

QBs don't operate in a vacuum. Defense is just important than Offense, and Special Teams play a role. Even when a QB is out there, you have to consider that the running game is around half of and offense usually. Then you have to think about who has the better game-plan. A good coach is important.

Why am I saying these things? Because it's inaccurate to say one player won a game. Sometimes it's accurate, but to automatically give a QB credit for a win because there is a W on the books is ridiculous.

And I have said at least 5 times, that it is hypocritical for you to say this then give Manning 100% credit for his stats.
If Brady gets no credit for everything he does resulting in a win because he has teammates, how does Manning get credit for stats, if he has teammates too?

 

[efin98]

It was heading that way a long, long, long time ago.

Your heart was in the right place and you had solid logic in asking...but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it would be a complete and utter train wreck

 

[efin98]

I assume that 'decision making' means, essentially, post-snap reads. If not, just let me know.

Accuracy
Arm strength
Leadership
Pocket presence/awareness
Pocket mobility
Pre-snap reads
Post-snap reads

Everyone please feel free to offer ideas to add or subtract from the list.

I believe you need to clarify accuracy to reflect almost totally on the QB and remove the wide receiver factor in the accuracy situation- is it including passes dropped by receivers, passes nullified by penalties, passes made only, passes that hit their intended target but were otherwise not caught?

 

[Deus Irae]

It was heading that way a long, long, long time ago.

Your heart was in the right place and you had solid logic in asking...but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it would be a complete and utter train wreck

Ausbacker found a good link for me to look to, so I'm at peace with that much.

 

[Ring 6]

This.

And it doesn't help your situation when the opposition knows that you have to throw the ball.

But you amass more stats.
Your argument is that Manning is better because of stats, and you cant count wins because maybe possibly it was due to the defense.
If you accept that Brady won because his defense was better you must accpet Manning amassed more stats because his defense was worse.

But again, the point is to win, not amass stats. Brady has won, Manning, largely, hasn't.

 

[efin98]

Ausbacker found a good link for me to look to, so I'm at peace with that much.

There's a few good ones in here that gave us some decent insight into the debate especially the most recent...at least we got some education on the aspects of both if anything.

 

[Deus Irae]

I believe you need to clarify accuracy to reflect almost totally on the QB and remove the wide receiver factor in the accuracy situation- is it including passes dropped by receivers, passes nullified by penalties, passes made only, passes that hit their intended target but were otherwise not caught?

Good points, but that would be a bear to have to do. You'd really have to evaluate every pass in order to do that, probably. I think that, in the end, you'd have to concede a bit of uncertainty in your method and make due.

 

[efin98]

Good points, but that would be a bear to have to do. You'd really have to evaluate every pass in order to do that, probably. I think that, in the end, you'd have to concede a bit of uncertainty in your method and make due.

Fair enough, trying to point out that in trying to eliminate the other teammates from the statistics as the fact that one had better teammates than the other is ignored by one side of the argument...

 

[Keegs]

But you amass more stats.
Your argument is that Manning is better because of stats, and you cant count wins because maybe possibly it was due to the defense.
If you accept that Brady won because his defense was better you must accpet Manning amassed more stats because his defense was worse.

But again, the point is to win, not amass stats. Brady has won, Manning, largely, hasn't.

my God you are beating this 3 toothed moron like a drum

i must say, it's been very entertaining to read this God-forsaken thread at work.

Nobody would take Peyton over Tom, unless they were related to Peyton, threatened, or paid off.

 

[efin98]

my God you are beating this 3 toothed moron like a drum

i must say, it's been very entertaining to read this God-forsaken thread at work.

Nobody would take Peyton over Tom, unless they were related to Peyton, threatened, or paid off.

or they were fans of his team, had a grudge against Brady or the Patriots, believed stats are the only thing that matters, etc.