Rams release leading tackler LB Pisa Tinoisamoa - A must for a Pats looksie

[JoeSixPat]

The problem with your argument here is that you keep posting links that don't do what you claim, or imply, they do. Neither of your Mike Reiss links above, for example, claim a source or make any argument that the Patriots are interested in the guy, and the Projo entry doesn't either.

Go back.

Read.

We have lots of "experts" in this forum who have unequivocally stated that the Patriots do not have any interest in Tinoisamoa.

That's their opinion. They have no team sources to back that up.

We have Patriots Football Weekly and Mike Reiss stating their belief that Tinoisamoa is someone they believe the Patriots would take a look at.

I haven't "implied" anything. I'm simply pointing out a difference of opinion that as of today, when Reiss was talking about LB alternatives to Taylor, he (and SMT) continue to note that Tinoisamoa is someone of interest.

I think you're "implying" that by NOT naming "King Tut", Reiss is stating that the Patriots would be interested in him. I don't quite see the logic of that statement.

Nor do I see the logic that Reiss would be "implying" that the Patriots have no interest in Tinoisamoa by stating that Tinoisamoa is someone he believes would be on the Patriots radar.

Again, if you have a team source, say so. Until then I'll go with Reiss' "expertise".

 

[mgteich]

I'm not sure what the argument is about.

1) The patriots "look at" all available free agents agent to see who might better the team, be possible injury insurance or be camp fodder.

2) We are very thin at linebacker after Belichick canned Ruud and Robertson, and the only linebackaer we drafted was injured.

CONCLUSION
Given that we have very little camp competition or injury insurance, Belichick will look at all linebackers available, no matter what any media source says or doesn't say.

OLB: Thomas, Woods, Crable, Banta-Cain, Redd
camp competition and injury insurance: Craig

ILB: Mayo, Bruschi, Guyton, Alexander
camp competition and injury insurance: Ciurciu, Appleby

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm not sure what the argument is about.

1) The patriots "look at" all available free agents agent to see who might better the team, be possible injury insurance or be camp fodder.

2) We are very thin at linebacker after Belichick canned Ruud and Robertson, and the only linebackaer we drafted was injured.

CONCLUSION
Given that we have very little camp competition or injury insurance, Belichick will look at all linebackers available, no matter what any media source says or doesn't say.

OLB: Thomas, Woods, Crable, Banta-Cain, Redd
camp competition and injury insurance: Craig

ILB: Mayo, Bruschi, Guyton, Alexander
camp competition and injury insurance: Ciurciu, Appleby

I agree. Which is why I question so many Patsfans who rule out Belichick looking at Tinoisamoa. He might not fit the perfect mold of a LB but I'm sure BB could find a way to use him productively.

Mike Reiss, Andy Hart and SMT clearly don't rule out Belichick taking a look at him. I'm not sure what Deus was inferring suggesting that Belichick would consider (or equating Tinoisamoa with) a long dead Egyptian King.

 

[Deus Irae]

Go back.

Read.

We have lots of "experts" in this forum who have unequivocally stated that the Patriots do not have any interest in Tinoisamoa.

That's their opinion. They have no team sources to back that up.

We have Patriots Football Weekly and Mike Reiss stating their belief that Tinoisamoa is someone they believe the Patriots would take a look at.

I haven't "implied" anything. I'm simply pointing out a difference of opinion that as of today, when Reiss was talking about LB alternatives to Taylor, he (and SMT) continue to note that Tinoisamoa is someone of interest.

I think you're "implying" that by NOT naming "King Tut", Reiss is stating that the Patriots would be interested in him. I don't quite see the logic of that statement.

Nor do I see the logic that Reiss would be "implying" that the Patriots have no interest in Tinoisamoa by stating that Tinoisamoa is someone he believes would be on the Patriots radar.

Again, if you have a team source, say so. Until then I'll go with Reiss' "expertise".

No, you mentioned sources:

Until I see Patsfans members site THEIR sources

From what I've read, the people who've dismissed the guy have focused a lot on the reports saying he played at as low as 220 lbs last season and that the Rams cut him because he was too small. Could you please list all the ILBs that have played at 220lbs during Belichick's tenure as Patriots head coach?

Since the Patriots writers

a.) Haven't pointed to sources

and

b.) Haven't actually said that the Patriots are interested in Pisa

you really have no point unless you can find something to hang your hat on other than a reporter saying "I think... maybe.... it's possible... if... maybe.... could be", unless you can find those 220lb ILBs. The people you are dismissing may end up being wrong, but they are at least looking at track record.

Mind you, my stance has been that if the team decides to go with an 'undersized' linebacker, I'd rather it be Brooks than this guy, so I'm not one of the people you're talking about.

 

[Ring 6]

My point is only that these idiots writers at these questionable publications like the "Boston Globe" and "Patriots Football Weekly" (has anyone with the New England Patriots even HEARD of these publications???) are noting that they expect to see some interest on the part of the Patriots.

But as I said, I agree that an LB who is 225 is a very different animal from one who is 20 lbs heavier... and it could be that all these media sources are going on the assumption that he's 240.

Though as you pointed out, since some teams actually WANT a lighter faster RB I don't think you can automatically assume that he's unable to add 20 lbs of good weight. For the Rams, it would seem neither he nor the team wanted to add the weight last year. What transpired this year we don't know.

Now, while I'd be willing to believe that Reiss may not have known that Tinoisamoa played at 225 last season when he initially reported on his availability, a week later one would think Reiss is a good enough reporter to look a bit further into that.

As such, if Reiss continues to note the potential interest that the Patriots would have in him, let's say as of today, after talking with team sources and confirming his playing weight, perhaps you might want to take note of that:Jason Taylor fallout - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com



Ask Reiss: 'Tis the season to work on a Wilfork extension? - Boston.com



But for now we can just ignore all that, refrain from posting any such news, and go with your theory that there's no role that Tinoisamoa could play here and thus no potential interest from the Patriots if it makes you happy.

In the end it won't surprise me if he doesn't make it out of Buffalo without an offer, making all of this a moot point.

I suppose where we differ is that while I consider Mike Reiss a good reporter, I dont think his guess of whether the Pats would be interested in a player is any better than a knowledgable fan.
Your argument seems to be you dont have to think nbecause Reiss is thinking for you. I've never bought that argument.

 

[Ring 6]

Well we've got a lot of "experts" here who are sure that the Patriots have absolutely no interest.

Until I see Patsfans members site THEIR sources, I'll tend to give a bit more credibility to Mike Reiss and SMT and Patriots Football Weekly reporters who state that the Patriots Tinoisamoa is someone the Patriots might have some interest in.

Why would you take a CONSENSUS opinion of fans and treat it like a conspiracy against you?
Why would someone having an opinion upset you so much?
Has anyone told you tht you were mentally deficient for saying differently or have people simply expressed a shared opinion with congruent arguments to back it up? How is that hurtful to you?
Its now reached the point that you are putting thoughts in between SMYs words.
Tell the truth, Pisa's real last name is SixPat isn't it?

 

[Ring 6]

Well, for what it's worth, as with Mike Reiss, Andy Hart of Patriots Football Weekly on the Patriots.com website notes the potential interest in Tinoisamoa

Ask PFW: Still talking LBs



As with Reiss and the Globe, I tend to look at the Patriots.com website and Patriots Football Weekly as a pretty credible source of good reporting. They may even have sources who are with the team on which to bounce their opinions from time to time

That being said, if he's really 225 that could change the equation. Given simple physics, while a smaller guy with more speed can pack the same punch as a bigger player, at some point the simple physics of just being 225 do work against you.

But THAT being said, would it really be that tough for this guy to add 20 lbs if that makes a difference?

The Hart quote almost defeats your argument more than helping it. Hart questions whether he would fit here, but says HE WOULD TAKE A LOOK.
When Andy Hart gets his job as GM of the Pats you will be on to something./

Go back and read that. You are purporting him to say the Pats would be interested and what he actually said was they may not be but HE would.

 

[Ring 6]

Well we've got a lot of "experts" here who are sure that the Patriots have absolutely no interest.

Until I see Patsfans members site THEIR sources, I'll tend to give a bit more credibility to Mike Reiss and SMT and Patriots Football Weekly reporters who state that the Patriots Tinoisamoa is someone the Patriots might have some interest in.

No one is claiming to be an 'expert' (other than you claiming the expertise of reporters) and no one is saying 'they are sure the Pats will have absolutely no interest' beyond offering the OPINION that all the facts lead to that conclusion.
You are the one saying these writers are more worthy of listening to, so that is why you would be asked to explain why.
No poster is claiming to offer any more than their opinion and facts behind it. You are using the reporters venturing in the vicinity of suggesting potential interest may possibly exist, as your proof.

 

[Rob0729]

Well we've got a lot of "experts" here who are sure that the Patriots have absolutely no interest.

Until I see Patsfans members site THEIR sources, I'll tend to give a bit more credibility to Mike Reiss and SMT and Patriots Football Weekly reporters who state that the Patriots Tinoisamoa is someone the Patriots might have some interest in.

It is my opinion. But it doesn't make it any less valid than the opinions of any member in the media. These guys are paid to report on the team, not to evaluate talent. I trust several members on this board more with talent evaluations than anyone in the media. You can easily find examples of player evaluations by the members of the press you mentioned that have been way off. Mike Reiss was adament that Matt Cassel was going to be cut before last season. The guys at PFW get so many player evaluations wrong over the years that you not only wonder if they work in the same building as Belichick, but the same planet.

 

[JoeSixPat]

It is my opinion. But it doesn't make it any less valid than the opinions of any member in the media.

I think what we're talking about here is people asserting that the opinion of Reiss, SMT, and Patriots Football Weekly are less valid because they - unlike some strident posters - don't rule out the Patriots interest in Tinoisamoa as some here do.

They're entitled to their opinions certainly - but I bristle a bit when they say that those who don't share their opinion are "ludicrous" and other crap like that.

 

[Ring 6]

I think what we're talking about here is people asserting that the opinion of Reiss, SMT, and Patriots Football Weekly are less valid because they - unlike some strident posters - don't rule out the Patriots interest in Tinoisamoa as some here do.

They're entitled to their opinions certainly - but I bristle a bit when they say that those who don't share their opinion are "ludicrous" and other crap like that.

I think you are missing a big distinction.
And that distinction is the difference between the validity of the opinion, and the validity of the reasoning for the opinion.

Everyone can have an opinion, and no ones opinion is an less valid than anyone elses.
But the REASON FOR THAT OPINION is more or less valid.

Let me explain. You said above that the opinion is less valid because they dont rule him out. That is incorrect, and not what anyone is saying.
What I (and I think others are saying) is that I have an opinion and my opinion is based upon the FACTS such as the history of what type of LBs we have had on the roster, the specifics of what we ask a LB to do, what the system he has played in has asked him to do, and the vast difference between them, and a conclusion on the ability of the player IN OUR SYSTEM vs his ability to play a different style somewhere else.
Your argument has been, we can't be right because these media people have mentioned his name in a list of LBs that are FAs (SMY) said that altough he may not fit what the Pats system requires he (the writer) would bring him in for a look (Hart) and a prediction that the Pats MAY be interested, based solely on his own thoughts (Reiss).

None of those media people are involved in this debate, so they have not detailed their logic and reasoning. I (and others i believe) are not saying they have no right to an opinion, I am saying that using THAT as your basis for your argument makes your argument poor. Your argument is boiling down to their opinion is better than anyone elses, for reasons I don't believe anyone agrees with, while all the time you have misrepresented what they have said to better fit what you want it to.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think you are missing a big distinction.
And that distinction is the difference between the validity of the opinion, and the validity of the reasoning for the opinion.

Everyone can have an opinion, and no ones opinion is an less valid than anyone elses.
But the REASON FOR THAT OPINION is more or less valid.

Let me explain. You said above that the opinion is less valid because they dont rule him out. That is incorrect, and not what anyone is saying.
What I (and I think others are saying) is that I have an opinion and my opinion is based upon the FACTS such as the history of what type of LBs we have had on the roster, the specifics of what we ask a LB to do, what the system he has played in has asked him to do, and the vast difference between them, and a conclusion on the ability of the player IN OUR SYSTEM vs his ability to play a different style somewhere else.
Your argument has been, we can't be right because these media people have mentioned his name in a list of LBs that are FAs (SMY) said that altough he may not fit what the Pats system requires he (the writer) would bring him in for a look (Hart) and a prediction that the Pats MAY be interested, based solely on his own thoughts (Reiss).

None of those media people are involved in this debate, so they have not detailed their logic and reasoning. I (and others i believe) are not saying they have no right to an opinion, I am saying that using THAT as your basis for your argument makes your argument poor. Your argument is boiling down to their opinion is better than anyone elses, for reasons I don't believe anyone agrees with, while all the time you have misrepresented what they have said to better fit what you want it to.

I'm not quite sure where this got off tangent - but the bottom is that the notion that the Patriots would consider Tinoisamoa is not "ludicrous" at all.

I know you've stated at length why he couldn't fit here. But some very well respected reporters include Tinoisamoa as someone they believe the Patriots would consider.

If they felt Tinoisamoa were a ludicrous mismatch for the Patriots why would they'd suggest him as someone the Patriots would look at?

 

[ivanfears]

I think you are missing a big distinction.
And that distinction is the difference between the validity of the opinion, and the validity of the reasoning for the opinion.

Everyone can have an opinion, and no ones opinion is an less valid than anyone elses.
But the REASON FOR THAT OPINION is more or less valid.

Let me explain. You said above that the opinion is less valid because they dont rule him out. That is incorrect, and not what anyone is saying.
What I (and I think others are saying) is that I have an opinion and my opinion is based upon the FACTS such as the history of what type of LBs we have had on the roster, the specifics of what we ask a LB to do, what the system he has played in has asked him to do, and the vast difference between them, and a conclusion on the ability of the player IN OUR SYSTEM vs his ability to play a different style somewhere else.
Your argument has been, we can't be right because these media people have mentioned his name in a list of LBs that are FAs (SMY) said that altough he may not fit what the Pats system requires he (the writer) would bring him in for a look (Hart) and a prediction that the Pats MAY be interested, based solely on his own thoughts (Reiss).

None of those media people are involved in this debate, so they have not detailed their logic and reasoning. I (and others i believe) are not saying they have no right to an opinion, I am saying that using THAT as your basis for your argument makes your argument poor. Your argument is boiling down to their opinion is better than anyone elses, for reasons I don't believe anyone agrees with, while all the time you have misrepresented what they have said to better fit what you want it to.

if he didnt fit belichicks system why did belichick waste a pre draft vist on him during the nfl draft, your argument makes no sense at all

 

[Clonamery]

if he didnt fit belichicks system why did belichick waste a pre draft vist on him during the nfl draft, your argument makes no sense at all

Perhaps the pre draft visit confirmed that he DIDN'T fit the system.

 

[ivanfears]

Perhaps the pre draft visit confirmed that he DIDN'T fit the system.[/QUOTE ) thats why they have pro days and the combine to get hieght and wieghts

 

[Clonamery]

Perhaps the pre draft visit confirmed that he DIDN'T fit the system.[/QUOTE ) thats why they have pro days and the combine to get hieght and wieghts

There's really no way to respond to this without coming off as a sarcastic arse and I can do that elsewhere.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not quite sure where this got off tangent - but the bottom is that the notion that the Patriots would consider Tinoisamoa is not "ludicrous" at all.

I know you've stated at length why he couldn't fit here. But some very well respected reporters include Tinoisamoa as someone they believe the Patriots would consider.

If they felt Tinoisamoa were a ludicrous mismatch for the Patriots why would they'd suggest him as someone the Patriots would look at?

I dont remember using the word ludicrous, but it sounds like me and it fits.

Because someone is a reporter does not make their opinion any more relevant.
On top of that, you are not being truthful to say they suggested the Patriots would look at him.
Reiss PREDICTED it. Ok, I like Mike, but I think he is incorrect that Tinoisomoa could play effectively in our defense.
SMY listed his name among LBs that are FAs. That is not suggesting the Patriots would be interested it is looking at a list of FAs who play the LB position.
Andy Hart implied he would NOT fit the Pats system, but said the HE would give him a look. Andy Hart is not in charge of personell or coaching.

There are numerous posters on this board that I consider substantially more knowledgable about football that these reporters. These people happen to write for a living, and their skills as WRITERS earned them their job, not their ability to evaluate NFL players and how they fit in schemes.

You seem to want to dance around the idea that since they have some interaction with people involved with the team, that it makes them more capable of offering a good opinion. How? Not a single one cited anyone inside the organization influencing their opinion.

When all is said and done, yes it is ludicrous to believe that the Patriots will sign a LB that is 220lbs, whos strength is speed and who's weakness is power, and taking on and shedding blocks. His weaknesses EXACTLY described the most important characteristic a Patriot LB must have, and his strengths EXACTLY describe what is least important in our system. How does that add up to anything short of ludicrous?

I am right sometimes, and wrong sometimes. Mike Reiss is right sometimes and wrong sometimes. I do not think there is any secret or any discrepancy about what we type of players are needed in our system, and what their responsiblities are. I do not understand why you seem to think that Mike Reiss is better equipped to judge Pisa Tonoisomoa and how his abilities equate to what Bill Belichick needs a LB to do in his system, than me or any othe fan that is paying attention.

I suppose we could shut down the board, and instead send all of our questions to Mike, since as a reporter he has to be right????????????

 

[Sicilian]

Perhaps the pre draft visit confirmed that he DIDN'T fit the system.[/QUOTE ) thats why they have pro days and the combine to get hieght and wieghts

So... you think height and weight is the only reason a player would fit a system? Attitude, football knowledge, understanding of responsibilities, work ethic... none of these things play a role, eh?

 

[Ring 6]

if he didnt fit belichicks system why did belichick waste a pre draft vist on him during the nfl draft, your argument makes no sense at all

Umm, what position did Belichick consider him at?
IIRC, Tinoisomoa was about 210-215 lbs, and MANY teams felt he was better suited as a safety.
How could it be that bringing in a guy as a potential safety would prove he fits the system at LB???

But, there is also this:

-You say he wouldn't waste a visit, and that proves he fits the system.
-I say he has never 'wasted' a ROSTER SPACE on a LB close to that small.
You conclude that he once brought a guy in for a visit, so he must feel the guy is a fit, yet he has never, in all his time here had a player that small make the roster as a LB.
Which conclusion do you think makes no sense?

 

[ivanfears]

So... you think height and weight is the only reason a player would fit a system? Attitude, football knowledge, understanding of responsibilities, work ethic... none of these things play a role, eh?

your so smart