Rams release leading tackler LB Pisa Tinoisamoa - A must for a Pats looksie

[Deus Irae]

Yup - there's a lot of know it alls around here for sure... and they'll even try to convince themselves that that the fact that Tinoisamoa was brought in for a visit was proof that indeed, they were right and the Patriots were never interested in him.

(Don't ask me how that logic works by the way)

I do know I'm not seeing a whole lot of folks here acknowledging that they were wrong on this issue.

I'm sorry, but I haven't really been following this all that closely. When did the Patriots sign Tinoisamoa, give their reasons for not signing him or give their reasons for bringing him in?

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm sorry, but I haven't really been following this all that closely. When did the Patriots sign Tinoisamoa, give their reasons for not signing him or give their reasons for bringing him in?

Excellent point.

Now that Belichick actually brought in Tinoisamoa, those same guys who denied that the Patriots would ever have any interest in him would probably go so far as to demand that Belichick do the unthinkable - explain himelf to the media - before they'd ever admit that maybe they were just a little bit too strident on this issue.

I guess for them it would take Belichick actually signing him before they'd begrudgingly admit that - yes, it's possible that the Patriots had some interest in Tinoisamoa. Otherwise they'd never admit they were wrong.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I am just starting to figure patsfans.com out...
1) You state your opinion and throw in a few facts.
2) Somebody comes along and just argues for the sake of arguing.
3) The "winner" of the arguement will come back and post about how they were right and the looser will never post on the thread again.

...gotta love this place.

PS: I agree with you on Pisa

The "winning" point is that there's a few know-it-alls around who pounce all over others for their opinion - asserting that they're right and everyone else is wrong.

It might do well to remind them not to be quite so righteous about their opinions on a football message board.

 

[unoriginal]

Until we have a statement from the Pats that they wanted Pisa as anything other than a ST stud and warm body at ILB, I don't understand the argument people are having here.

Reiss said Pisa "would shoot to the top of the LB list" and the thread has been about evaluating Pisa as a LB in the base defense. Reiss' language was a little fuzzy but the base defense angle is a reasonable way to evaluate the top of such a list. No one in this thread has suggested Pisa wouldn't fit well on ST units. Meanwhile, the Pats had him and Paris Lenon in for visits, and signed Lenon.

Maybe Pisa asked for too much money for his (projected) roster spot, maybe the Pats were looking for a guy with experience at specific ST spots, maybe they were thinking of working Pisa into some oft-used subpackages and he wanted to pursue a starting job, or maybe Paris Lenon got his hands on some Flubber and had the workout of his life. But appearances are that Lenon was selected because his size and experience (Sam and Mike linebacker in a 4-3) are better matches for the base defense than Pisa (Will linebacker in a 4-3).

 

[Rob0729]

Yup - there's a lot of know it alls around here for sure... and they'll even try to convince themselves that that the fact that Tinoisamoa was brought in for a visit was proof that indeed, they were right and the Patriots were never interested in him.

(Don't ask me how that logic works by the way)

I do know I'm not seeing a whole lot of folks here acknowledging that they were wrong on this issue.

Having Tinoisamoa in for a visit doesn't prove the Pats weren't interested in him, but it also doesn't prove they really were all that interested. The fact they signed Lenon for the position hours after meeting with Tinoisamoa tells me that the interest wasn't all that great.

Belichick has players in for visits all the time who he never signs. Belichick likes to visit with free agents and compile an emergency list of players available. For all we know, that is why Tinoisamoa was brought in. Or maybe they used him to convince Lenon to take the first deal the Pats put on the table because it may be the last offer he gets knowing that Tinoisamoa was visiting the same day. Who knows?


All I know is Tinoisamoa is not a Patriot and there hasn't even been a single report that they even made an offer. Also, it took the Pats 3 weeks after his release to even bring him in for a visit. I gotta ask with these facts, who is it who should be admitting they are wrong about this issue?

P.S. do we have to revisit the Adam Seward threads? The Pats had him in last year and never made an offer and never even attempted to sign him this year when he was an UFA.

 

[Rob0729]

Excellent point.

Now that Belichick actually brought in Tinoisamoa, those same guys who denied that the Patriots would ever have any interest in him would probably go so far as to demand that Belichick do the unthinkable - explain himelf to the media - before they'd ever admit that maybe they were just a little bit too strident on this issue.

I guess for them it would take Belichick actually signing him before they'd begrudgingly admit that - yes, it's possible that the Patriots had some interest in Tinoisamoa. Otherwise they'd never admit they were wrong.

And yet the Pats signing another player for the same position that Tinoisamoa was interviewing for just hours after Tinoisamoa visited the Pats doesn't convince the Tinoisamoa lovers that maybe the Pats weren't that interested in him after all.

The Pats may have been interested or they may have had a very minor interest at best or none at all and just wanted to pressure Lenon. I think that using since the Pats had the guy in and instead of offering him a contract immediately signed an older player who has had a less impressive career as proof that the Pats were really interested in the guy as questionable at best.

Seriously, are you really going to play the "I told you so" game when the Pats didn't even make an offer to the guy?

 

[Rob0729]

I do know I'm not seeing a whole lot of folks here acknowledging that they were wrong on this issue.

Well, when you are ready to admit you arewrong, we will be happy to accept your apology.

 

[JoeSixPat]

And yet the Pats signing another player for the same position that Tinoisamoa was interviewing for just hours after Tinoisamoa visited the Pats doesn't convince the Tinoisamoa lovers that maybe the Pats weren't that interested in him after all.

The Pats may have been interested or they may have had a very minor interest at best or none at all and just wanted to pressure Lenon. I think that using since the Pats had the guy in and instead of offering him a contract immediately signed an older player who has had a less impressive career as proof that the Pats were really interested in the guy as questionable at best.

Seriously, are you really going to play the "I told you so" game when the Pats didn't even make an offer to the guy?

Classic.

The Globe and Patriots Football Weekly and the Providence Journal all indicate Tinoisamoa as someone the Patriots may be interested in.

A Patsfan member starts a thread to discuss it- and gets BLASTED by the know it alls who know that Belichick would never have any interest in such a player.

Belichick then expresses interest in Tinoisamoa -and folks are still denying that Belichick could have had any interest in Tinoisamoa!

 

[Rob0729]

Classic.

The Globe and Patriots Football Weekly and the Providence Journal all indicate Tinoisamoa as someone the Patriots may be interested in.

A Patsfan member starts a thread to discuss it- and gets BLASTED by the know it alls who know that Belichick would never have any interest in such a player.

Belichick then expresses interest in Tinoisamoa -and folks are still denying that Belichick could have had any interest in Tinoisamoa!

LOL! will repeat Dues' sentiment. I must have missed the signing ceremony for Tinoisamoa. Bringing a guy in for a visit doesn't really mean there is much of an interest unless they actually make at least a passing effort to sign the guy. If you want to pat yourself on the back because Belichick was interest enough to meet with the guy, but not interested enough to sign him. Good for you.

It seems pretty clear to me that Belichick felt there wasn't a fit. Call me a guy who refuses to admit I am wrong, but I usually take it as a sign that when a team interviews a player and then signs someone else within hours that the team doesn't seem there is a fit.

I always maintained that Tinoisamoa didn't fit into the Pats system and that he wouldn't be signed. Please tell me how I have been proven wrong. Was it Tinoisamoa leaving without a contract offer or Lenon being signed that proves that Tinoisamoa was a perfect fit and is currently a Patriot?

Belichick may have had a passing interest in Tinoisamoa, but not enough to sign him or even make him an offer. It doesn't prove much of anything either way in my mind. I never said the Pats would never show any interest in the first place so I really have no dogs in this race, but I think it silly to claim this huge victory when the Pats only had the guy in for a visit and the proceeded to sign someone else.

BTW, I defy you to find one thing I said in this thread that was proven wrong by Tinoisamoa visiting. In fact, eventhough I was pretty sure that the Pats wouldn't sign him, I didn't rule it out as a potential back up role as a situational player.

 

[Deus Irae]

Classic.

The Globe and Patriots Football Weekly and the Providence Journal all indicate Tinoisamoa as someone the Patriots may be interested in.

A Patsfan member starts a thread to discuss it- and gets BLASTED by the know it alls who know that Belichick would never have any interest in such a player.

Belichick then expresses interest in Tinoisamoa -and folks are still denying that Belichick could have had any interest in Tinoisamoa!

Again, what have the Patriots done to prove any interest in Tinoisamoa as a linebacker in the 3-4? As I pointed out, I haven't really followed this closely because once I heard about his playing weight last season I left my interest as preferring Brooks, but I don't recall people saying that the Patriots wouldn't have use for him as a special teams possibility or anything of that nature.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think I see the problem here.

The Patriots front office called Tinoisamoa's agent. They had him get on a plane... and fly to Boston... and drive to Foxboro, and presumably meet with some strategic people in the Patriots organization...

But that shouldn't be construed as the Patriots having any interest in him.

Indeed you openly state that nothing short of a player signing here constitutes Belichick having any interest in them.

Rock solid logic boys. I have no response.

I suppose people will just have to decide for themselves whether calling a player's agent, having him fly to town and meet with the team constitutes "showing interest".

 

[Deus Irae]

I think I see the problem here.

The Patriots front office called Tinoisamoa's agent. They had him get on a plane... and fly to Boston... and drive to Foxboro, and presumably meet with some strategic people in the Patriots organization...

But that shouldn't be construed as the Patriots having any interest in him.

Indeed you openly state that nothing short of a player signing here constitutes Belichick having any interest in them.

Rock solid logic boys. I have no response.

I suppose people will just have to decide for themselves whether calling a player's agent, having him fly to town and meet with the team constitutes "showing interest".

Do you not realize that there are 3 areas to NFL teams, in the form of offense, defense and special teams? Do you not also realize that the Patriots bring in a lot of players for looks, even if there's little or no interest? Do you not understand the possibility of the team bringing him in and finding out that he did, indeed, play last season at a weight they deemed "too light"?

All of those things are perfectly reasonable possibilities that would explain the guy's arrival and departure quickly followed by the signing of a different player for the 'linebacker' role. My guess is that there was some level of interest, but it was clearly not all that much or they wouldn't have chosen the player they did instead of him. However, until the Patriots or Pia publicly explain the situation, it remains an unknown.

 

[Clonamery]

The "winning" point is that there's a few know-it-alls around who pounce all over others for their opinion - asserting that they're right and everyone else is wrong.

It might do well to remind them not to be quite so righteous about their opinions on a football message board.

Pot/kettle painting each other "black" .....

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Pot/kettle painting each other "black" .....

nice, and true.

I've often wondered why someone can claim that i'm wrong, but offer no facts to prove they're right.

 

[Rob0729]

I think I see the problem here.

The Patriots front office called Tinoisamoa's agent. They had him get on a plane... and fly to Boston... and drive to Foxboro, and presumably meet with some strategic people in the Patriots organization...

But that shouldn't be construed as the Patriots having any interest in him.

Indeed you openly state that nothing short of a player signing here constitutes Belichick having any interest in them.

Rock solid logic boys. I have no response.

I suppose people will just have to decide for themselves whether calling a player's agent, having him fly to town and meet with the team constitutes "showing interest".

This is really silly to thump your chest and prove you are right that the Tinoisamoa was a good fit for the Pats because they didn't sign him, but they had him in for a visit. I think most people in this thread who argued against the guy were saying he was a bad fit for the defese and not that the Pats would never show any interest.

There is absolutely no proof that Belichick felt he was a good fit for the defense. We don't know if Belichick was really all that serious about signing the guy are just trying to confirm his doubts about the guy before moving on or another reason. Even if Belichick thought he might be a good fit, he didn't think strongly enough to even make a contract offer and decided to sign Paris Lenon immediately after the visit. Usually that means that Belichick after visiting with the guy feels he wasn't a good fit.

 

[JoeSixPat]

This is really silly to thump your chest and prove you are right that the Tinoisamoa was a good fit for the Pats because they didn't sign him, but they had him in for a visit. I think most people in this thread who argued against the guy were saying he was a bad fit for the defese and not that the Pats would never show any interest.

There is absolutely no proof that Belichick felt he was a good fit for the defense. We don't know if Belichick was really all that serious about signing the guy are just trying to confirm his doubts about the guy before moving on or another reason. Even if Belichick thought he might be a good fit, he didn't think strongly enough to even make a contract offer and decided to sign Paris Lenon immediately after the visit. Usually that means that Belichick after visiting with the guy feels he wasn't a good fit.

Actually I never said he was a fit. I actually don't think he was.

I'm just illustrating that those who declared - without offering a shred of proof - that those who felt the Patriots would be interested in Tinoisamoa were WRONG (including Mike Reiss, SMT, Patriots Football Weekly, and all the other fans here who stated that they could see the Patriots being interested in Tinoisamoa) were THEMSELVES WRONG.

Those folks won't admit they were wrong now even though the evidence of the Patriots' interest couldn't be more apparent after they called his agent, arranged an interview, flew him in and met with him.

They actually attempt to assert that the only players the Patriots are interested in are the ones who sign.

If they don't sign a contract, we obviously weren't interested in them.

Perhaps they should do what they expect of others. Show PROOF that Belichick, despite contacting his agent, despite arranging an interview, despite flying him out and having the interview proceed - was never interested in Tinoisamoa.

I'd say there's a lot more evidence that says there was some interest than evidence that says there was none.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'd say there's a lot more evidence that says there was some interest than evidence that says there was none.

Given that they signed someone else, I'd say this makes no sense. Again, you don't now why they had him in.

 

[Rob0729]

Actually I never said he was a fit. I actually don't think he was.

I'm just illustrating that those who declared - without offering a shred of proof - that those who felt the Patriots would be interested in Tinoisamoa were WRONG (including Mike Reiss, SMT, Patriots Football Weekly, and all the other fans here who stated that they could see the Patriots being interested in Tinoisamoa) were THEMSELVES WRONG.

Those folks won't admit they were wrong now even though the evidence of the Patriots' interest couldn't be more apparent after they called his agent, arranged an interview, flew him in and met with him.

They actually attempt to assert that the only players the Patriots are interested in are the ones who sign.

If they don't sign a contract, we obviously weren't interested in them.

Perhaps they should do what they expect of others. Show PROOF that Belichick, despite contacting his agent, despite arranging an interview, despite flying him out and having the interview proceed - was never interested in Tinoisamoa.

I'd say there's a lot more evidence that says there was some interest than evidence that says there was none.

There is a lot of room between absolutely no interest and being absolutely in love with the guy. My take is that they signed Lenon so quickly after they met with both guys, the interest in Tinoisamoa was relatively low. I guess you can argue they were really in love with Lenon, but why wait so long to sign him and why interview other ILBs?

 

[unoriginal]

I'm just illustrating that those who declared - without offering a shred of proof - that those who felt the Patriots would be interested in Tinoisamoa were WRONG (including Mike Reiss, SMT, Patriots Football Weekly, and all the other fans here who stated that they could see the Patriots being interested in Tinoisamoa) were THEMSELVES WRONG.

Probably the best post in this thread for summarizing this point of view is Post 58.

I guess I wasn't aware that I had signed a covenant when I registered on Patsfans to discuss topics only as Mike Reiss or the OP frames them; in this case, whether the Pats would have Pisa "on their radar" instead of whether Pisa was a good fit in the defense, which is what this thread is mostly about.

 

[Deus Irae]

In speaking with a reporter who covers the Lions this morning, it was noted that Lenon has been a solid special teams player. He played a key role on the Lions' punt coverage team at right tackle, with special teams coordinator Stan Kwan once calling him a "punt-team junkie".

Lenon's ability to contribute on special teams will be important as he attempts to earn a roster spot in New England. I could potentially see him becoming a core member of the special teams -- playing on punt coverage, punt return, kickoff coverage and kickoff return units -- in addition to providing depth at inside linebacker in the 3-4 scheme.

Additional thought on Paris Lenon signing - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

Hmmm......