Rams release leading tackler LB Pisa Tinoisamoa - A must for a Pats looksie

[ivanfears]

Well, I like Reiss, but he was dead wrong about Pisa Tinoisamoa.

But he was right that the Pats would add a vet LB after losing McKenzie. It just wasn't Pisa.

did anybody ever think the pats used pisa as leverage to get the deal done with lenon??? maybe lenom was wanting a multi year deal, they brought pisa in and said if you dont sign the 1 year vet min. he will and or vis versa

 

[PushnPencils]

did anybody ever think the pats used pisa as leverage to get the deal done with lenon??? maybe lenom was wanting a multi year deal, they brought pisa in and said if you dont sign the 1 year vet min. he will and or vis versa

Could be. But let's face it, the free agent LB pool was super thin. If not Lenon or PT....then who. I think their interest in PT was more than just as a negotiating tool.

 

[PushnPencils]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any evidence that they paid to fly him in. This could have just been "hey, we're trying some guys out, why don't you show up"

Well I actually heard PT was abducted by aliens in Missouri and released at Gillette stadium and BB said well since your here anyway, we'll take a look at you.

They took a look at him, entertained his presence. That denotes some measure of interest.

 

[ivanfears]

Could be. But let's face it, the free agent LB pool was super thin. If not Lenon or PT....then who. I think their interest in PT was more than just as a negotiating tool.

i do to ,my point is they would of signed either, pisa was to make close to 3.5 million with the rams he might of wanted a bigger deal than lennon who signed for 8ook and 200k of incentives

 

[Deus Irae]

To be fair, would you care to give me a list of all the players that the Patriots contacted, flew in, met with, but had absolutely no interest in?

And since you want "proof" that the Patriots had interest in PT (aside from the fact that they contacted him, had him fly in, and met with him) I'm sure you wouldn't mind showing "proof" that they had no interest in any of the players you cite.

I don't even had a dog in this fight, because I didn't really get into this on this thread. All I've really said is that the evidence is stronger that they didn't want the guy for the linebacking corps than that they did, given that they didn't sign him and opted for someone else instead. I said that we don't know why he was brought in. I said that if further information came out, it could change the argument. Using a visit to go above "absolutely no interest" is foolish, though, given the Patriots proclivity towards bringing players in and the ridiculously low bar that you set with that phrasing.

I do love the "absolutely no interest in" argument, though, because it is so foolish. It sort of ignores the reality that the Patriots would have some level of interest in every person in the world who might possibly be good enough to play NFL football and makes it seem as if bringing a player in, or even mentioning his name, is essentially the same as offering him $30 million a season. Of course, Lenon was brought in before Tinoisamoa, according to Reiss, thus undercutting that "top of the list" argument, but we'll just ignore that. The omitting of the special teams possibilities, something Reiss addressed in his post-signing analysis, is also a nice touch on your part.

Patriots hosted Paris Lenon - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

Additional thought on Paris Lenon signing - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

The bottom line is that reporters speculated that this was a guy the Patriots would want (top of the list, per Mike Reiss) and posters speculated that this was a guy that would not fit the Patriots' linebacking corps. To date, whether you like it or not, the information we have indicates that those posters were right and the reporters were wrong. The rest is just splitting hairs about the word 'interest'.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I don't even had a dog in this fight, because I didn't really get into this on this thread. All I've really said is that the evidence is stronger that they didn't want the guy for the linebacking corps than that they did, given that they didn't sign him and opted for someone else instead. I said that we don't know why he was brought in. I said that if further information came out, it could change the argument. Using a visit to go above "absolutely no interest" is foolish, though, given the Patriots proclivity towards bringing players in and the ridiculously low bar that you set with that phrasing.

I do love the "absolutely no interest in" argument, though, because it is so foolish. It sort of ignores the reality that the Patriots would have some level of interest in every person in the world who might possibly be good enough to play NFL football and makes it seem as if bringing a player in, or even mentioning his name, is essentially the same as offering him $30 million a season. Of course, Lenon was brought in before Tinoisamoa, according to Reiss, thus undercutting that "top of the list" argument, but we'll just ignore that. The omitting of the special teams possibilities, something Reiss addressed in his post-signing analysis, is also a nice touch on your part.

Patriots hosted Paris Lenon - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

Additional thought on Paris Lenon signing - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

The bottom line is that reporters speculated that this was a guy the Patriots would want (top of the list, per Mike Reiss) and posters speculated that this was a guy that would not fit the Patriots' linebacking corps. To date, whether you like it or not, the information we have indicates that those posters were right and the reporters were wrong. The rest is just splitting hairs about the word 'interest'.

OK - I give in.

The Patriots called up Tinoisamoa

Talked to his agent (presumably about how they had no interest in his client)

Asked PT him to come in for a visit

Had him fly in

And met with him

All because they had no interest in him.

Let's just let that logic stand and speak for itself.

 

[JoeSixPat]

i do to ,my point is they would of signed either, pisa was to make close to 3.5 million with the rams he might of wanted a bigger deal than lennon who signed for 8ook and 200k of incentives

I'm not aware of anyone else who was expressing interest in Lenon as of late either.

All things being equal, if you've got a player interviewing with 2 other teams like Tinoisamoa and one who's not interviewing with any other team, which one is going to have more leverage to ask for more money? And would that be a factor in the Patriots decision as well?

(Oh wait - now I've opened up the hornets nest of suggesting that the Bills or Bears have any "interest" in Tinoisamoa too - since they haven't signed him either... so technically NO ONE has expressed any interest in Tinoisamoa because they haven't signed him.)

 

[Wretch]

All I can say is Adam Seward....

 

[Deus Irae]

OK - I give in.

The Patriots called up Tinoisamoa

Talked to his agent (presumably about how they had no interest in his client)

Asked PT him to come in for a visit

Had him fly in

And met with him

All because they had no interest in him.

Let's just let that logic stand and speak for itself.

Tell me, did they bring him in to start at linebacker? Did they bring him in to be a backup linebacker? Did they bring him in just for special teams possibilities? Did they bring him in to replace Wilfork?

What was he brought in as? When you've answered that, we'll move on to the next round of questions, such as "What happened when Pisa was brought in? Was he asked about his playing weight and whether he'd be able to keep more than 220lbs on his frame over the course of the season?"

Come on, you must know these answers. If you didn't, your arguments here would be stupid, and that can't possibly be the case.

Also, since you would never dream of creating straw men, please list all the people in this thread who posted that the Patriots would have absolutely no interest in Pisa, in any capacity whatsoever.

 

[WhiskeyBreath]

Signed with Da Bears.

 

[Deus Irae]

Tinoisamoa reportedly chose the Bears over the Buffalo Bills. He also visited the New England Patriots, but they signed Paris Lenon this week.

Per the article about his signing posted in another thread.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Tell me, did they bring him in to start at linebacker? Did they bring him in to be a backup linebacker? Did they bring him in just for special teams possibilities? Did they bring him in to replace Wilfork?

What was he brought in as? When you've answered that, we'll move on to the next round of questions, such as "What happened when Pisa was brought in? Was he asked about his playing weight and whether he'd be able to keep more than 220lbs on his frame over the course of the season?"

Come on, you must know these answers. If you didn't, your arguments here would be stupid, and that can't possibly be the case.

Also, since you would never dream of creating straw men, please list all the people in this thread who posted that the Patriots would have absolutely no interest in Pisa, in any capacity whatsoever.

Glad to see you've finally admitted that the Patriots were interested in him and are now moving on to WHATtheir interest was.

Some won't admit this no matter what - which is quite funny.

As anyone can see from this thread, there's more than a few members here who disputed Reiss' expectation (along with SMY and Patriots Football Weekly) that the Patriots would have interest in PT.

Exactly what their interest was, as you pointed out, is open for debate... - but that's a completely different issue.

 

[Deus Irae]

Glad to see you've finally admitted that the Patriots were interested in him and are now moving on to WHATtheir interest was.

Some won't admit this no matter what - which is quite funny.

As anyone can see from this thread, there's more than a few members here who disputed Reiss' expectation (along with SMY and Patriots Football Weekly) that the Patriots would have interest in PT.

Exactly what their interest was, as you pointed out, is open for debate... - but that's a completely different issue.

I'm not "admitting" anything, because I've never been in a position to need to on this thread. You, on the other hand, keep making assertions without facts to back them up. So, answer the questions.

 

[unoriginal]

Obviously mods need to step in at this point and split the "Are the Pats interested in Pisa Tinoisamoa?" and "Will the Pats sign Pisa Tinoisamoa?" topics into two threads, because these issues are way too vast to cordially share a single thread.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm not "admitting" anything, because I've never been in a position to need to on this thread. You, on the other hand, keep making assertions without facts to back them up. So, answer the questions.

For a guy who has no "horse" in this race, you sure are spending a lot of time trying to convince everyone that now BOTH the Bills and the Patriots, despite reaching out to Tinoisamoa and flying him in and meeting with him - NEITHER team had an interest in him.

I think most people would accept the common sense that, yes, the Patriots were interested in PT - bolstered by the fact that they contacted his agent
and the fact that they apparently convinced his agent that they were interested in him
and the fact that his agent convinced PT to get on a plane
and the fact that PT came to Foxboro
and the fact that the media confirmed that such a meeting took place

I'm guessing that's not enough facts for you though

I'm just interested to see how long you will fight to deny common sense in this issue you say you have no "interest" in!

 

[spacecrime]

All I can say is Adam Seward....

But are the Pats interested?

 

[spacecrime]

OK - I give in.

The Patriots called up Tinoisamoa

Talked to his agent (presumably about how they had no interest in his client)

Asked PT him to come in for a visit

Had him fly in

And met with him

All because they had no interest in him.

Let's just let that logic stand and speak for itself.

Maybe they brought him in to put pressure on Lenon who was in the week earlier, and who they really wanted. Once Lenon realized the only team who showed interest in him was about to move on, Lenon caved. Pisa didn't mind that the Pats brought him in even though they had no interest because other teams THOUGHT the Pats were interested and it got Pisa a better deal.

It is a win-win-loss-loss situation:

WIN for the Pats who got the man they were interested in for less
LOSS for Lenon who settled for less
WIN for Pisa who got more
LOSS for the Bears who paid more for Pisa

and of course a big LOSS for everyone dumb enough to be following this thread.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Maybe they brought him in to put pressure on Lenon who was in the week earlier, and who they really wanted. Once Lenon realized the only team who showed interest in him was about to move on, Lenon caved. Pisa didn't mind that the Pats brought him in even though they had no interest because other teams THOUGHT the Pats were interested and it got Pisa a better deal.

It is a win-win-loss-loss situation:

WIN for the Pats who got the man they were interested in for less
LOSS for Lenon who settled for less
WIN for Pisa who got more
LOSS for the Bears who paid more for Pisa

and of course a big LOSS for everyone dumb enough to be following this thread.

Oh sure - I've said that myself. I never rule anything out. But there's plenty of folks here who do.

I also don't rule out that they were interested in Burgess too but, like Tinoisamoa, the price was going to be too high for value they brought.

I just think it's hiliarious that after all of these folks saying "NO - PT's too small and there's no way Belichick would be interested in him.

They've ruled out interest in Tinoisamoa and continue to do so even when the Patriots call him in for an interview.

If anything this thread illustrates that there's folks here who, once they take a strong position, even mocking others for their views, will REFUSE to change that position even in the face of cold hard facts.

 

[SladeRider]

Would of liked him but once the Pats signed Lenon, I knew they weren't going to get Pisa so I don't have a problem.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm usually not one to resurrect threads that has run it's course. But since there was so much debate on Tinoisamoa's contract with the Bears and whether it would be significantly higher than Paris Lenon's, I figured I would add the news on Tinoisamoa's contract in this thread rather than starting a new one. According to the Tribune, Tinoisamoa is going to make $1 million over in a one year contract. They don't indicate that he has any incentives which means that if Lenon makes all his incentives that he would make $50k more.

So it appears the Pats' decision to go with Lenon over Tinoisamoa doesn't look to be a financial issue.


Chicago Bears linebacker Pisa Tinoisamoa due to make $1 million | Huddle Up