Peter King's MMQB column...

[basement zombie]

If Belichick didn't even ask for a first it's laughable and he deserves all the criticism. It's idiotic to think he didn't want a 1st due to contract numbers when he could turn a 1st into lower picks and has many times. He must be getting a sweetheart deal from Pioli down the road or getting senile. He couldn't have made this deal so he could hurry and sign Sanders. He undervalued Cassel plain and simple. Waiting hours or one day for the offers to solidify wouldn't have meant squat in free agency or in signing his own players with the cap savings.

• Since Cassel was franchised, I've been thinking that other teams might have leverage against the Patriots due to the 'relative certainty' that NE keeping Cassel for this year is simply not viable and extremely unlikely to happen. In light of that and the fact that Cassel would need to be signed to an extension if they want to hold on to him longer than this season, I've felt that other teams hold a decent amount leverage against the Patriots.
  
  
• Coupled with that, I think its reasonable to assume that we/Patriots wanted to get this deal done quickly to be able to have the option to participate in free agency and/or sign current players to extensions.
  
  
• Not to mention the Vrabel piece - knowing coach BB and his history with players, I don't think its unreasonable to assume that he decided that Vrabel was to be cut, and managed to find an excellent way of obtaining his goal (freeing up the salary space) while still being respectful to a Patriot veteran.

Does that seem reasonable to you?

 

[upstater1]

I'd rather have Delmas. He looked better at the combine.

Oh, the combine. All right. But, the Patriots have never been the type of team swayed by combine performances.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

The same lazy Bill who after a Sunday or Monday Nite Game west coast game flies all night, and instead of going home just goes to work to prepare for next weeks game.. lazy is not a word I equate with BB... he has a bigger plan here folks, and to just believe he did it expeditiously and without forethought or a bigger plan is just plain dumb.

So..he had to rush into a deal so he could sign James Sanders ASAP? There's too much smoke about first round offers out there for them not to have some fire to them. Waiting hours or a day wouldn't have made a difference to signing FA's(weak class anyway) or their own players. Unless you know of some players that have been scooped out from underneath the Pats over the weekend. Some fans can't face the fact that BB can screw the pooch and did.

 

[Sicilian]

So..he had to rush into a deal so he could sign James Sanders ASAP? There's too much smoke about first round offers out there for them not to have some fire to them. Waiting hours or a day wouldn't have made a difference to signing FA's(weak class anyway) or their own players. Unless you know of some players that have been scooped out from underneath the Pats over the weekend. Some fans can't face the fact that BB can screw the pooch and did.

But how long do you wait? What if, as has been said, there was no real legitimate offers made to the Pats that:

A) had better compensation than the KC trade

B) weren't contingent on a long term deal getting done with Cassel that might have extended the process long beyond the "days" and "hours" you're talking about.

At what point to you say, enough is enough, we need to make a deal and there's nothing else on the table that's better at the moment. Bad luck that more came in after, but them's the breaks.

 

[DarrylS]

At what point to you say, enough is enough, we need to make a deal and there's nothing else on the table that's better at the moment. Bad luck that more came in after, but them's the breaks.

If indeed they did come in and this is not just more NFL shenanigans to discredit BB...

 

[Deus Irae]

There were deals available and there was no imminent time requirement. Why can't people just admit it and theorize as to WHY it was done in such a way as to cut the Chiefs a break instead of still trying to argue as if it wasn't?

 

[Sicilian]

If indeed they did come in and this is not just more NFL shenanigans to discredit BB...

Or face saving by the other clubs as I mentioned before. We have no way of knowing.

 

[Sicilian]

There were deals available and there was no imminent time requirement. Why can't people just admit it and theorize as to WHY it was done in such a way as to cut the Chiefs a break instead of still trying to argue as if it wasn't?

I don't remember hearing any rumors (from legit sources) of trade offers until we heard about the KC one. Most teams aren't the Patriots, and word gets leaked when they make an offer.

I think it's equally likely (if not moreso) that these "better" deals were NOT on the table until the weekend when it was too late.

 

[ScottieC]

At what point to you say, enough is enough, we need to make a deal and there's nothing else on the table that's better at the moment. Bad luck that more came in after, but them's the breaks.

They only came after they found out the price KC paid.

Current revisionist history will treat this trade very poorly- Short term.

While History, as it is yet to have it's say, will be entirely different.

 

[BradyManny]

Oh, the combine. All right. But, the Patriots have never been the type of team swayed by combine performances.

It is important when you're talking about a position change. Where's the tape of Jenkins at safety? Jenkins is being talked about as a pro safety b/c they'd think he'd fail as a corner, not b/c he'd excel at FS. There's a big difference - especially when you're talking about spending #12 on Jenkins versus #23 or #34 on Delmas.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't remember hearing any rumors (from legit sources) of trade offers until we heard about the KC one. Most teams aren't the Patriots, and word gets leaked when they make an offer.

I think it's equally likely (if not moreso) that these "better" deals were NOT on the table until the weekend when it was too late.

Every single bit of evidence to the contrary? Come on.

 

[Sicilian]

Every single bit of evidence to the contrary? Come on.

I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong, but I'll need to see this evidence first. And I don't mean a report coming out AFTER the trade saying "X team offered Y for Cassel and BB said no." I mean some inkling that came out before the KC trade that indicated someone else was considering offering something better.

 

[upstater1]

It is important when you're talking about a position change. Where's the tape of Jenkins at safety? Jenkins is being talked about as a pro safety b/c they'd think he'd fail as a corner, not b/c he'd excel at FS. There's a big difference - especially when you're talking about spending #12 on Jenkins versus #23 or #34 on Delmas.

I'm imagining that any CB with cover skills could play FS, if only they also had the size and nose for knocking people to the ground hard. What you need to see from Jenkins game tapes is his willingness to hit people hard. After that, you know, cover skills + tackle skills = safety.

 

[upstater1]

Check out this response to a Denver Post article from a fan:

This is what happens when you think because you coached in New England that your smarter than everyone else in the league. Marshall would still care about playing football in Denver and not be in jail and Culter would be happy!
Fire McDaniels!

Cult-er indeed,

 

[JoeSixPat]

It's interesting that King seems to have a source suggesting that Pioli actually IS interested in signing Cassel to a long term deal - but only if Cassel takes less than absolute top dollar - and is willing to risk the loss of a 2nd round pick if a deal can't be reached and Cassel walks after next season (or conversely they tag him again).

So was this a factor in the "pricetag" for Cassel?

I think so, but then again I'm in the minority on that one, as there seems to be a belief that teams would give up high draft picks just to rent Cassel for one season, still interested in trading for him even if he refused to even negotiate a long-term deal.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong, but I'll need to see this evidence first. And I don't mean a report coming out AFTER the trade saying "X team offered Y for Cassel and BB said no." I mean some inkling that came out before the KC trade that indicated someone else was considering offering something better.

Yes, reports by seemingly every single reporter in the nation are all made up. Every single one.

And, after all, hundreds of reports were out about the KC trade before Vrabel was in KC, right?

 

[Sicilian]

I'm imagining that any CB with cover skills could play FS, if only they also had the size and nose for knocking people to the ground hard. What you need to see from Jenkins game tapes is his willingness to hit people hard. After that, you know, cover skills + tackle skills = safety.

That's a big part of it, but it's also a lot about reading the play I would think. Safeties have a different angle on things, and have to adjust a little more than corners based on everything in front of them.

Probably depends on the system of the team that drafts him though.

 

[Sicilian]

Yes, reports by seemingly every single reporter in the nation are all made up. Every single one.

And, after all, hundreds of reports were out about the KC trade before Vrabel was in KC, right?

I'm not saying the reports are made up, they're just based on less than 100% accurate information. Not every team is run by BB or Pioli. I just feel like we would have heard some rumblings about the going price for Cassel if the deals were actually on the table before the Pats signed off on the KC trade. Sorry. There has to be more to it.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not saying the reports are made up, they're just based on less than 100% accurate information. Not every team is run by BB or Pioli. I just feel like we would have heard some rumblings about the going price for Cassel if the deals were actually on the table before the Pats signed off on the KC trade. Sorry. There has to be more to it.

The trade was brought on in the first 14 hours of the free agency period. Exactly how many reports do you think were going to get out?

 

[Sicilian]

The trade was brought on in the first 14 hours of the free agency period. Exactly how many reports do you think were going to get out?

We heard about the Haynesworth deal before free agency began, and that's blatant tampering. It's not unreasonable to be skeptical when this comes out only after the fact is all I'm saying.