Peter King's MMQB column...

[TheKraftyOne]

If Belichick didn't even ask for a first it's laughable and he deserves all the criticism. It's idiotic to think he didn't want a 1st due to contract numbers when he could turn a 1st into lower picks and has many times. He must be getting a sweetheart deal from Pioli down the road or getting senile. He couldn't have made this deal so he could hurry and sign Sanders. He undervalued Cassel plain and simple. Waiting hours or one day for the offers to solidify wouldn't have meant squat in free agency or in signing his own players with the cap savings.

 

[BradyManny]

i think you're just trying to justify it to yourself. there is always value at #12. look at last yr. the pats traded down a few spots with mayo

I've been saying for a while I have no interest in moving up in round 1, unless it was to get Curry, which couldn't be guaranteed until draft day. I've been even saying I'd rather move down, and think #34 is a better spot to draft from than #23, minus the one less year on the contract.

Granted, I was thinking maybe we'd get a 2010 Day 1 pick in the deal as well, but I was off the mark, too. The difference is, I don't get paid what Peter King gets paid to come up w this stuff. But I think the #34 pick in this draft is a very, very high value spot.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

If Belichick didn't even ask for a first it's laughable and he deserves all the criticism. It's idiotic to think he didn't want a 1st due to contract numbers when he could turn a 1st into lower picks and has many times. He must be getting a sweetheart deal from Pioli down the road or getting senile. He couldn't have made this deal so he could hurry and sign Sanders. He undervalued Cassel plain and simple. Waiting hours or one day for the offers to solidify wouldn't have meant squat in free agency or in signing his own players with the cap savings.

Or you overvalued him. One or the other

I'm quite sure BB knew that KC wasn't coming off #3 for him, that that moves to #34 as the next choice. Perhaps the throw in of Vrabes was BB's part of the package (i.e. salary dump to a team of HIS choosing - i.e. not the Jets).

I could very much see BB saying "we'll take your #34, but you have to take Vrabel too, and can't release him". If that is the case then BB was asking for a 1, but talking a very high 2 if the qualifier (i.e. Vrabel) was met.

Lets face it, Our defense needs to get younger and faster and Vrabel was not going to be either this year at 3.3M. Much as we love him for what he's done, he is not the future of our Defense. Expect BB to be address his loss soon. If it's freaken Peppers we get, then he'll have done exactly that to the x degree. Even if he only get a very good OLB in the draft (lets not forget Pusluzney was taken at 34 too and he is a very good young LB), it's okay too.

Either way, we'll never know..... my scenario is every bit as likely as any, cuz none of us know.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't think the Pats wanted the #3 overall. The top 3-5 picks are as much a curse as a blessing. You can get a potential franchise player, but if he doesn't pan out you are stuck.

It is obvious that the market for Cassel wasn't there like we though since the only teams that wanted Cassel were Pioli's and McDaniels'. Too bad the Broncos didn't jump into the fray sooner with three team trade scenarios because that was the only way the Pats could have driven up the price and if Felger is right the Pats could have gotten more. But is seems pretty clear from all the reports that it was only a two team market for Cassel.

 

[Rob0729]

If Belichick didn't even ask for a first it's laughable and he deserves all the criticism. It's idiotic to think he didn't want a 1st due to contract numbers when he could turn a 1st into lower picks and has many times. He must be getting a sweetheart deal from Pioli down the road or getting senile. He couldn't have made this deal so he could hurry and sign Sanders. He undervalued Cassel plain and simple. Waiting hours or one day for the offers to solidify wouldn't have meant squat in free agency or in signing his own players with the cap savings.

I have no problem with Belichick asking for the Chiefs' 34th pick as long as he asked for multiple picks. He may have known going in that the #3 pick was off the table. You combine the 34th pick with another pick or two and it is just as good as a mid first round pick.

 

[upstater1]

I've been saying for a while I have no interest in moving up in round 1, unless it was to get Curry, which couldn't be guaranteed until draft day. I've been even saying I'd rather move down, and think #34 is a better spot to draft from than #23, minus the one less year on the contract.

Granted, I was thinking maybe we'd get a 2010 Day 1 pick in the deal as well, but I was off the mark, too. The difference is, I don't get paid what Peter King gets paid to come up w this stuff. But I think the #34 pick in this draft is a very, very high value spot.

I'm looking for an emoticon that has eyes twirling like crazy, skull cracked and brains leaking, tongue wagging insanely, with a good straijacket around the little round yellow-headed guys body.

Does such an emoticon exist?

 

[upstater1]

After reading the King column, I've been thinking about the Denver controversy.

Peter King reported that Jay Cutler asked to be traded from the Broncos after Bates was sent off to USC.

The Broncos knew they already had a guy that was not totally committed to the program--he wanted to be traded.

They cut off Cutler's agent Cook because they knew he was inflaming things in the media to make management into the bad guys.

Now, you have Cutler deliberately saying they will trade him, that he does not want to speak to the coaches, etc.

I'd say chances are good that Cutler always wanted to leave Denver and be traded, and this is just part of the plan to force Denver's hand.

The Weis/McDaniels/BB offense is a peculiar one, and I'm sure Cutler wasn't thrilled about it especially as he has two years left on his contract. This could impact his career.

Drew Bledsoe HATED the Patriots offense, he was a gunslinger always looking way downfield, and the Patriots insist that you take what the defense gives you. Keep the chains moving. That's their whole offensive philosophy. Bledsoe drove Belichick nuts, never looking off his first option downfield, as he forced the ball in there because of his arm. A lot of bigtime QBs with great arms would get frustrated by this offense.

 

[BradyManny]

I'm looking for an emoticon that has eyes twirling like crazy, skull cracked and brains leaking, tongue wagging insanely, with a good straijacket around the little round yellow-headed guys body.

Does such an emoticon exist?

Please let me know who you are so enamored with at the #12 spot in the draft this year.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

Or you overvalued him. One or the other

I'm quite sure BB knew that KC wasn't coming off #3 for him, that that moves to #34 as the next choice. Perhaps the throw in of Vrabes was BB's part of the package (i.e. salary dump to a team of HIS choosing - i.e. not the Jets).

I could very much see BB saying "we'll take your #34, but you have to take Vrabel too, and can't release him". If that is the case then BB was asking for a 1, but talking a very high 2 if the qualifier (i.e. Vrabel) was met.

Lets face it, Our defense needs to get younger and faster and Vrabel was not going to be either this year at 3.3M. Much as we love him for what he's done, he is not the future of our Defense. Expect BB to be address his loss soon. If it's freaken Peppers we get, then he'll have done exactly that to the x degree. Even if he only get a very good OLB in the draft (lets not forget Pusluzney was taken at 34 too and he is a very good young LB), it's okay too.

Either way, we'll never know..... my scenario is every bit as likely as any, cuz none of us know.

Belichick is telling Piloli who he can release now? I suppose you're looking for the real killers with OJ too.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

I don't think the Pats wanted the #3 overall. The top 3-5 picks are as much a curse as a blessing. You can get a potential franchise player, but if he doesn't pan out you are stuck.

It is obvious that the market for Cassel wasn't there like we though since the only teams that wanted Cassel were Pioli's and McDaniels'. Too bad the Broncos didn't jump into the fray sooner with three team trade scenarios because that was the only way the Pats could have driven up the price and if Felger is right the Pats could have gotten more. But is seems pretty clear from all the reports that it was only a two team market for Cassel.

The market was there but BB didn't want to go shopping for groceries.

 

[upstater1]

Please let me know who you are so enamored with at the #12 spot in the draft this year.

Are you serious? Everette Brown, for one. Malcolm Jenkins. There are lots of good players going in that area.

If Belichick hadn't consummated this deal with KC in the wee hours Saturday, I'm 99.9% certain he would have taken the #12 pick and Cassell would be in Denver.

 

[jefmblrd]

Re: Peter King's MMQB Column..

one of those 2nd rounders is going to flip to a first rounder next year. so I'm not too critical of it.

it all depends what they do with the picks.

I agree. BB is a master of turning lower draft picks this year into higher ones for the next year; I have to think that's part of the plan.

 

[BradyManny]

Are you serious? Everette Brown, for one. Malcolm Jenkins. There are lots of good players going in that area.

Brown? Many of his sacks were unblocked, clear path to the QB. He has no experience in coverage and I'm not sure he could set the edge as an OLB. He has potential, but at #12, I think he'd be too big a risk, a la Gholston.

Jenkins? His stock is dropping and now most think he's a safety. Not interested.

 

[upstater1]

Brown? Many of his sacks were unblocked, clear path to the QB. He has no experience in coverage and I'm not sure he could set the edge as an OLB. He has potential, but at #12, I think he'd be too big a risk, a la Gholston.

Jenkins? His stock is dropping and now most think he's a safety. Not interested.

We're not interested in safeties? Really?

The guy is still pegged to go in this area, he's big and fast, and tackles well. He's more of a certainty, in other words, than anyone in the #34 area.

 

[borg]

Re: Peter King's MMQB Column..

I agree. BB is a master of turning lower draft picks this year into higher ones for the next year; I have to think that's part of the plan.

Think about the #34 pick...Detroit at #33 is less likely to trade this pick because of need, so the Pats sit in a sweet spot to gain a picks this year or next.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

the broncs took lonnie paxton

and gaffney

 

[Sicilian]

The market was there but BB didn't want to go shopping for groceries.

Yes, I'm sure it was just Bill being lazy that caused all this

We have no way of knowing WHEN the first round offers were coming in, and seeing as we're only hearing about them AFTER the trade went down, I'm willing to bet those offers didn't exist until the papers were filed.

This could also be a bit of face saving by franchises that didn't really want Cassel, but had fanbases that did. "I mean, WE offered a first for him, what more do you want us to do?"

 

[DarrylS]

Yes, I'm sure it was just Bill being lazy that caused all this

We have no way of knowing WHEN the first round offers were coming in, and seeing as we're only hearing about them AFTER the trade went down, I'm willing to bet those offers didn't exist until the papers were filed.

This could also be a bit of face saving by franchises that didn't really want Cassel, but had fanbases that did. "I mean, WE offered a first for him, what more do you want us to do?"

The same lazy Bill who after a Sunday or Monday Nite Game west coast game flies all night, and instead of going home just goes to work to prepare for next weeks game.. lazy is not a word I equate with BB... he has a bigger plan here folks, and to just believe he did it expeditiously and without forethought or a bigger plan is just plain dumb.

 

[BradyManny]

We're not interested in safeties? Really?

The guy is still pegged to go in this area, he's big and fast, and tackles well. He's more of a certainty, in other words, than anyone in the #34 area.

I'd rather have Delmas. He looked better at the combine.

 

[Sicilian]

And another possibility, is that a lot of these better deals might have been coming with the condition that the team was able to work out a long term deal with Cassel (something he hasn't yet done with KC). If the deal didn't go through until that happened, and the Pats didn't want to harbor his cap number until it did, the KC deal was the best one because they would take Cassel as is.