Is this a viable way to handle the QB situation?

[Synovia]

Um, OK. I think our defense finished 8th in the league in scoring, FYI.

And until Adalius Thomas got injured, there was no discernible difference between last seasons defense and this seasons.

I'm sorry, but judging defences by points allowed is like judging QBs by touchdown passes alone. The entire field counts, not just inside the 20s.


Bad offenses put their defenses in bad positions, and vice versa. Every time the Pats defense comes out and gives up 3 first downs before forcing a punt against a bad team, and the offence drives 70 yards for a TD, the offense has covered up bad defensive play.


I agree that the defense looked fine before Thomas got hurt, but at that point, the offense was just getting going. They went from a team at the beginning of the season with an average defense and a below average offense to a team with a great offense and an awful defense.

 

[Synovia]

Belichick would judge if O'C is ready or not. If he thinks that he's ready, then I wouldn't expect 3-5. Also, if O'C is NOT considered ready, then we will sign a veteran. Do you think that we would be 3-5 with say a Kerry Collins who wiil have led the team all through Traning Camp and ther preseason. I think that we SHOULD add a veteran QB. A backup QB might be worth $2M-$4M a year long-term or even a bit more for a one-year contract.

Kerry Collins is a starter, and hes not going to take a backup job. Vince Young isn't starting next year. The sort of backups that are available are going to be guys like Ferrote, Rex Grossman, Derek Anderson, etc.


yeah, I think we're worse than 3-5 with any of those guys.

 

[JSn]

There is a chance that Huard will be available, likely as a back-up. How would we feel about him at #3 behind Tom/Matt & Kevin?

 

[Synovia]

There is a chance that Huard will be available, likely as a back-up. How would we feel about him at #3 behind Tom/Matt & Kevin?

I think Huard is a huge downgrade from Cassel or Brady, and honestly, if the QB situation is going to be that bad, you might as well get K OC some time.

 

[mgteich]

C'mon! Don't let the secret out. Cassel is an all-pro, worthy of a top 5 pick or at minimum two firsts (a 2009 and a 2010). One more win and Cassel would have been in the pro-bowl and gotten votes for MVP.

The patriots had their weakest schedule in recent memory, as did the rest of our division. This won't happen again anytime soon. We played against three very weak divisions. As I've said from this time last year, I think that we should always have a veteran #2 QB. Even with the surprisingly good performance from Cassel, I think that we would have done at least as well with Garcia or Kerry Collins or Huard, had they come in before Training Camp.

The heroes of this year's season were the linebackers. We went 11-5 with contributions from two linebackers brought out of retirement and with two rookies playing almost every down for most of the season. Consider how good they will be when the rooks have another camp and the injured come back healthy.

But how well did Cassel really turn out? We didn't make the playoffs with a weak schedule in a season where there really weren't any great teams. Just a year prior, a Brady led team was 150 seconds from running the table.

Again, with respect to Cassel's contributions, I ask how big the drop off from Cassel to O'Connell would be.

And again, I reiterate, those with low expectations for Cassell at the onset were blown away a little too much by his play. That might be the case here, I don't know.

 

[bizarroAndres]

that might work!

 

[stcjones]

I say: get the picks for Cassel while we can. Between Brady, O'Connell and possibly a journeyman veteran game-manager type, things still have a good chance of shaking down suitably at QB without Cassel, even if Tom is not 100 percent in August. I really do believe that O'Connell could be a good one.

best viewpoint yet......strike while the iron is hot on Matt Cassel.......

 

[stcjones]

:agree: Unless you believe the Pats will need Cassel long-term, his value in a trade will never be higher. I guarantee you that GMs are suspicious that Cassel could be a one-year wonder. Cassel is positioned as a young QB with the stuff to lead your team to the SB and with an elite ceiling. Nothing that Cassel can do in the short-term can raise that evaluation, but he can sure do a lot to damage it (<cough> Derek Anderson <cough>).

If you can get a 1st round pick for Cassel, you surround him with bubble wrap and ship him next-day air. If you can get an early 2nd round pick, you negotiate a little but you still take it. Anything later than that you can afford to hold onto him and wait for an injury.

Agree with your assessment of the 2009 QB situation. I also believe O'Connell will eventually be a solid starting QB. If he isn't ready to fill in a little early this year, there are plenty of QBs that can babysit the position until Brady is ready to go.

"I guarantee you that GMs are suspicious that Cassel could be a one-year wonder. "

Another very realistic and intelligent comment here........that is why you deal him when his value is highest.......good points

 

[Synovia]

"I guarantee you that GMs are suspicious that Cassel could be a one-year wonder. "

Another very realistic and intelligent comment here........that is why you deal him when his value is highest.......good points

I guarantee they are. I also guarantee that GMS are suspicious on whether or not Brady recovers 100%.

 

[Synovia]

The heroes of this year's season were the linebackers. We went 11-5 with contributions from two linebackers brought out of retirement and with two rookies playing almost every down for most of the season. Consider how good they will be when the rooks have another camp and the injured come back healthy.

We went 11-5 because our offense was good enough to offset the fact that our defence was terrible.

 

[ScottieC]

We went 11-5 because our offense was good enough to offset the fact that our defence was terrible.

Terrible?

I'm getting a little tired of your act.

I'll let you look it up, here's a place to start.

NFL Stats: by Team Category

 

[Synovia]

I'll let you look it up, here's a place to start.

NFL Stats: by Team Category

Here's a better place:
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Our team was good against the run, and attrocious against the pass. 27th in the league.


You can't judge defences by total points allowed or total yards. Teams give up more yards when they win in blowouts than when they win close.

 

[spacecrime]

if the pats tag him, they will trade him.........that's it

Not if he doesn't want to be traded. They can't force him to sign the tender.

the bottom line is that the pats had enough regard for kevin o'connell to make him a 3rd round pick which is much higher than any other QB they have ever drafted.......

Tony Eason

he has been in the program for a year and will be ready to execute the same way brady was ready to execute after a year and cassel after a few years......

Rohan Davey

the bottom line is that if cassel could execute a decent offensive set for this team, then so can o'connell..........

Kliff Kingsbury

 

[spacecrime]

Terrible?

I'm getting a little tired of your act.

I'll let you look it up, here's a place to start.

Start by watching the Miami game. See no one tackle anyone.

Watch the San Diego game. Watch Rivers wear out his arm completed 70 yard TD passes.

Watch the Jets game in OT. Watch a third and 15 get converted, as well as every other third down and the Jets march down the field totally unmolested.

Put in a half decent defense on the field in any of those games and we are 14-2.

Forget the stats. Watch the games.

 

[stcjones]

Quit griping. This thread isn't even a trade Brady thread. Not in premise, anyway. It's looking at ways to investigate the future at QB with minimal risk.

Your additions to most of these discussion are "this thread is stupid". Seriously, bring more to the table or stick discussions that don't make you feel queasy.

Very well said.......


Deusche Irate: In swahili, it means "Verbal Diarrhea"

 

[stcjones]

About the same, but Cassel was a pleasant surprise. He'd also had 3+ years already in the system. The fact that Cassel turned out well doesn't mean that O'Connell will.

Plus, we had a much easier schedule compared to next years slate......going to be a rough one if Brady is unable to go.....

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Plus, we had a much easier schedule compared to next years slate......going to be a rough one if Brady is unable to go.....

Easier yes, but not as easy as it had looked on paper: the Pats were ranked #22 or #23 in SOS in 2008 (and, yes, every team in the AFCE had an even easier schedule).

 

[jmt57]

From the original post:

The assumption here is that The Pats are in good shape to do some nice FA deals in the uncapped year . . .
.
.
.
The Patriots have to consider their spending power in an uncapped year (not that they have to go hog-wild, but can they if needs-be).

I think there are a lot of natural assumptions by fans that an uncapped year equates to major league baseball free agency, with a few of the 'haves' spending a lot of money (big market teams like the Jets and Giants; big ego owners like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder) but from what I have read that is likely not going to be the case at all. First, there is a provision that will limit the spending of the top eight teams. Second, there is a provision which will further limit what players will be available to all 32 teams as unrestricted free agents; as I recall the length of service time is increased to six years for that uncapped year. Third, those owners may want to consider what would happen if 2010 is uncaped, but a cap returns in 2011 and beyond when they offer those contracts in the uncapped year.

 

[BradyManny]

I'm sorry, but judging defences by points allowed is like judging QBs by touchdown passes alone. The entire field counts, not just inside the 20s.


Bad offenses put their defenses in bad positions, and vice versa. Every time the Pats defense comes out and gives up 3 first downs before forcing a punt against a bad team, and the offence drives 70 yards for a TD, the offense has covered up bad defensive play.


I agree that the defense looked fine before Thomas got hurt, but at that point, the offense was just getting going. They went from a team at the beginning of the season with an average defense and a below average offense to a team with a great offense and an awful defense.

BTW, since you're big on Football Outsiders as well - a quick glance:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Cassel's DVOA was only 6% last season, ranking him 20th among QBs. Worth mentioning, if we're going to base stuff on DVOA and metrics of the sort, then you have to apply them to you're argument re: Cassel, at which point, your argument falls apart.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Not if he doesn't want to be traded. They can't force him to sign the tender.

then he can just sit home and doesn't cost anyone a dime........he doesn't have to sign the tender to be traded, but the other team will likely want to extend him as part of the agreement

Tony Eason

jim plunkett

Rohan Davey

rich gannon

Kliff Kingsbury

steve grogan

this is easy..........do you even have a clue, or do you willfully act this way????