Is this a viable way to handle the QB situation?

[Metaphors]

Cassell and Derek anderson are hardly comparable. ... They're completely different looking players.

Wasn't evaluating them. Comparing their situations:

• 1st year starter, relative unknown before
• Exceeds expectations
• Leads team to successful year (brink of the playoffs)
• Team has to deal with 2 quarterback situation

It was rumored that the Vikings were offering up their 1st pick or a package (2nd and 3rd?) for Anderson. The Browns didn't bite and now have a highly paid backup that they would be lucky to get a 4th round pick for. Instead the Vikings took their 1st pick and got Jared Allen. So in the 2008 offseason, it was not out of the question to place the value of Jared Allen on par with Derek Anderson. Now Anderson wouldn't even get you Jared from Subway.

Not saying that Cassel and Anderson are the same value...just saying that current value placed on Cassel is temporary. There is no guarantee that the value will stay there over time...remember Cassel was generally considered a bum as recently as 5 months ago! One pick-six in the preseason or a sore arm during training camp and you can kiss that 1st round pick goodbye.

Profit is when you buy low and sell high. Regret is when you buy low and hold too long.

 

[Miguel]

Not if it doesn't include much new bonus money and is mostly salary.

Why would a player sign such an extension??

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Yes, but if they withdraw the tender after July 22nd and Cassel signs a big contract with another team the Patriots will not get a comp pick in 2010.

IIRC, though, if the Pats were to let him enter free agency without franchising him, and he didn't sign until August (for whatever reason), the Pats wouldn't get a comp pick, even if he signed for $20M/yr.

 

[JSn]

I agree, but this nonsense his being posted time and again despite Ian's specific wishes.

Quit griping. This thread isn't even a trade Brady thread. Not in premise, anyway. It's looking at ways to investigate the future at QB with minimal risk.

Your additions to most of these discussion are "this thread is stupid". Seriously, bring more to the table or stick discussions that don't make you feel queasy.

 

[Miguel]

IIRC, though, if the Pats were to let him enter free agency without franchising him, and he didn't sign until August (for whatever reason), the Pats wouldn't get a comp pick, even if he signed for $20M/yr.

That's just a different application of the same rule.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Why would a player sign such an extension??

I can think of a few reason.....

To avoid being traded.

Because he would like to come off the PUP week 6 to be the starting QB of a team that is 5-1, instead of 1-5.

Because the deal includes a promise that Cassel will be tagged for one year and not sign a 6 year deal with the Pats.

 

[Miguel]

I can think of a few reason.....

To avoid being traded.

I am pretty sure that since Brady will be on the Patriots roster Day 1 of the 2009 league year that he will be due a $3 million roster bonus on February 27 making trading him any pretty expensive proposition. The only way for the Pats to avoid paying Brady that roster bonus is to release him before that day.

Because the deal includes a promise that Cassel will be tagged for one year and not sign a 6 year deal with the Pats.

As if Brady would be worried about Cassel beating him out in a competition.

 

[mgteich]

DIRECT RESPONSE TO THE ORIGINAL POST
The presumption is that Brady is not expected to be ready for camp.

1) No, we can't afford to keep Cassel on the roster for the 2009 season. It will not be possible to extend important pieces, and players would be need to cut and restructured to accomodate the cap needs for rookies and other needs after the 51 rule no longer applies.

2) "Whichever one is traded" and this is NOT a trade Brady thread? There will be few takers for a Brady so injured that the patriots don't want to keep him or for a backup QB signed to a one-year $14M contract (and he is only considered signed after the draft, since he will have no reason to sign until then).

3) Belichick does indeed need to deal with possibility of Brady not being able to play for part of games or for several games. This roster spot is called "#2 QB". You may be believe that a #2 QB is worth $14M. I think that is silly at best.

4) The patriots will work with Cassel and his agent(s) to work out a deal with a team other than the jets. The deal will be worked out and executed within the first two weeks of free agency, possibly before. Then, we can move on. That is my prediction.
=============================================

Is this thread and most of its ideas "stupid"? It doesn't really matter. There is no reason to bar and expect to not see much stupidity/misinformation/ignorance or whatever the PC word is these days. This is the offseason. There are no games for many months. However, IMHO, the idea of Brady passing up his bonus, extending his contract for little or no extra money, all so that Cassel can be signed for $14M, is beyond words. The idea that we can have a SB quality team, a better team than in 2008, and pay $14M for a backup QB is simply misinformed.

OK, this doesn't fit the other threads as I'm not leaning one way or the other.

What I'm proposing here hinges entirely on there being genuine uncertainty about Brady's health. I'm only wondering about this based on that hypothetical. I'm absolutely in the Brady stays camp if he's good to go.

On to the scenario.

----------------------

Franchise Cassel, let him sign it.
Build through the draft.
Extend important pieces where possible, and maybe grab a couple of JAG FA's for competition. The assumption here is that The Pats are in good shape to do some nice FA deals in the uncapped year, unless the draft proves solid and last year's pick up's show improvement.

This allows a proper evaluation of the QB's and proper time to decide on a trade opportunity and maybe even which QB to trade (based on inside knowledge). Whichever one was traded would result in cap relief and further ability to negotiate with our own FA's.

----------------------

I'm taking the heart out of the equation and just looking at sensible options. The Patriots have to consider their spending power in an uncapped year (not that they have to go hog-wild, but can they if needs-be). They also need to decide which QB best represents the future interests of the franchise based on skill, durability, longevity, and what can be gained from trading.

In that perspective, it's really just a value break-down.

So I'm wondering, if Brady is at all uncertain, do you franchise Cassel and keep him on the roster, deferring trade musings in spite of teams ripe for the picking who need a QB? Is that more important than getting picks and putting Tom out there if he's not quite ready?

 

[Deus Irae]

Quit griping. This thread isn't even a trade Brady thread. Not in premise, anyway. It's looking at ways to investigate the future at QB with minimal risk.

Your additions to most of these discussion are "this thread is stupid". Seriously, bring more to the table or stick discussions that don't make you feel queasy.

You'll notice that I didn't post until after someone had posted about cutting ties to Brady.


Here's what's going to happen:

Brady stays or
Brady goes

Cassel stays or
Cassel goes

If Brady stays and Cassel stays, there's nothing to talk about other than which week Brady will be starting and what Cassel's contract implies for the future, and we currently have no info on either question, but we have threads on them anyway.

If Brady goes and Cassel stays OR goes, there's a thread for that specifically set up by Ian, because he's not getting cut, so it would have to occur via trade.

That leaves only Cassel Goes and Brady Stays. Those threads can be found on the board without involving the "trade brady" scenario.

The mods have been lightning fast to move game threads from playoff games, despite their being topical and this being the offseason for the Patriots. If they are going to be that fast to react to those threads, they should be putting the "Trade Brady" threads together immediately too.

 

[Seneschal2]

I share the view of many here, in that Cassel will make a clean departure from the Pats. And just in case Brady isn't healed and O'Connell isn't ready to step in, a veteran QB will be signed on the cheap (as insurance).

Where I may differ from some, is my confidence that O'Connell will be ready. Unlike the defense, IMO there will be few changes on offense, and they'll be ready as a unit to support the QB. The new OC and QB coach will certainly have an effect on O'Connell's development.

 

[j00fek]

this is the way that big bill will handle the QB situation

tag/trade cassel get 1st 3rd rounder for him

brady will be on pup to start the season

kevin oconell who was a 3rd round pick last yr will play until tb is back

 

[Synovia]

this is the way that big bill will handle the QB situation

tag/trade cassel get 1st 3rd rounder for him

brady will be on pup to start the season

kevin oconell who was a 3rd round pick last yr will play until tb is back

Okay, so Brady goes on the PUP, and can't start till week 6.


Meanwhile, K O'C, a third round QB in his second season starts six + games. I like K'OC, but I think we come out of the first 6 games in that scenario at 2-4 at BEST. At that point, the chance of making the playoffs is pretty low, especially considering that Brady isn't allowed to practice the first 6+ weeks of the season because hes on the PUP.

So, in that case, Brady doesn't really start till week 9 or so, and if we're lucky, we've had a bye, and are only 3-5.

 

[BradyManny]

Okay, so Brady goes on the PUP, and can't start till week 6.


Meanwhile, K O'C, a third round QB in his second season starts six + games. I like K'OC, but I think we come out of the first 6 games in that scenario at 2-4 at BEST. At that point, the chance of making the playoffs is pretty low, especially considering that Brady isn't allowed to practice the first 6+ weeks of the season because hes on the PUP.

So, in that case, Brady doesn't really start till week 9 or so, and if we're lucky, we've had a bye, and are only 3-5.

What did you think our record would be when Matt Cassel took over?

As I said, its a matter of expectations. I thought Cassel would turn this 16-0 team into a 12-4 team. I was in the ballpark. Kevin O'Connell could be a 10-6 team. The reality is this is still a stacked team, especially a stacked offense, in a league without many good teams. We can survive a few games without Brady - and that situation might not come to pass.

 

[Synovia]

What did you think our record would be when Matt Cassel took over?

About the same, but Cassel was a pleasant surprise. He'd also had 3+ years already in the system. The fact that Cassel turned out well doesn't mean that O'Connell will.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

the pats will add a vet QB to the roster as insurance, but the bottom line is that the pats had enough regard for kevin o'connell to make him a 3rd round pick which is much higher than any other QB they have ever drafted.

Drew Bledsoe and Jim Plunkett say hello..........

 

[BradyManny]

About the same, but Cassel was a pleasant surprise. He'd also had 3+ years already in the system. The fact that Cassel turned out well doesn't mean that O'Connell will.

But how well did Cassel really turn out? We didn't make the playoffs with a weak schedule in a season where there really weren't any great teams. Just a year prior, a Brady led team was 150 seconds from running the table.

Again, with respect to Cassel's contributions, I ask how big the drop off from Cassel to O'Connell would be.

And again, I reiterate, those with low expectations for Cassell at the onset were blown away a little too much by his play. That might be the case here, I don't know.

 

[Synovia]

But how well did Cassel really turn out? We didn't make the playoffs with a weak schedule in a season where there really weren't any great teams. Just a year prior, a Brady led team was 150 seconds from running the table.

Again, with respect to Cassel's contributions, I ask how big the drop off from Cassel to O'Connell would be.

And again, I reiterate, those with low expectations for Cassell at the onset were blown away a little too much by his play. That might be the case here, I don't know.

In the beginning of the season, cassel's play was suspect. Over the last 10 weeks, when they opened up the playbook, he was a top 5 starter.


I think the dropoff from Cassel to O'Connel would be huge, especially if we're talking 2009 Cassel vs 2009 O'connel, and not 2008 Cassel vs 2009 O'connel. I'm of the oppinion that Cassel is good right now, and is going to get better.

 

[Synovia]

But how well did Cassel really turn out? We didn't make the playoffs with a weak schedule in a season where there really weren't any great teams. Just a year prior, a Brady led team was 150 seconds from running the table.

According to football outsiders, the Patriots had the 9th best offense in the league, after being in the bottom 5 at week 6. They had one of the worst defenses in the league. If the defense is even as mediocre as it was last year, the Pats win 13-14 games this year, and Cassel is playing in the AFC championship.

 

[BradyManny]

According to football outsiders, the Patriots had the 9th best offense in the league, after being in the bottom 5 at week 6. They had one of the worst defenses in the league. If the defense is even as mediocre as it was last year, the Pats win 13-14 games this year, and Cassel is playing in the AFC championship.

Um, OK. I think our defense finished 8th in the league in scoring, FYI.

And until Adalius Thomas got injured, there was no discernible difference between last seasons defense and this seasons.

 

[mgteich]

Belichick would judge if O'C is ready or not. If he thinks that he's ready, then I wouldn't expect 3-5. Also, if O'C is NOT considered ready, then we will sign a veteran. Do you think that we would be 3-5 with say a Kerry Collins who wiil have led the team all through Traning Camp and ther preseason. I think that we SHOULD add a veteran QB. A backup QB might be worth $2M-$4M a year long-term or even a bit more for a one-year contract.

Okay, so Brady goes on the PUP, and can't start till week 6.


Meanwhile, K O'C, a third round QB in his second season starts six + games. I like K'OC, but I think we come out of the first 6 games in that scenario at 2-4 at BEST. At that point, the chance of making the playoffs is pretty low, especially considering that Brady isn't allowed to practice the first 6+ weeks of the season because hes on the PUP.

So, in that case, Brady doesn't really start till week 9 or so, and if we're lucky, we've had a bye, and are only 3-5.