Lifer

I just sum it up like this. To the person who says God doesnt exist:
Prove it.

Wildo7

You can't prove a negative like that. Why don't you prove or at least show tangible evidence for the existence of god? And irreducible complexity is not a solid argument.

Wildo7

Prove Santa doesn't exist.

When you claim something is the way it is, the onus is on you to provide evidence for your hypothesis.

PatsFanInVa

The persistent error in the usual tit-for-tat over religion is the notion that the question must be settled -- which all parties readily admit will never happen (certainly not by the efforts of homo sapiens alone.)

It is only possible to prove the existence of God to the believer, and as Wildo has identified, the burden of proof in such exercise is on the one who posits the thesis (in this case, of God's existence.)

But as Lifer has also identified, although it amounts to a challenge to prove a negative (a notoriously difficult if not impossible task,) nobody has conclusively proven God's nonexistence. In fact, in the Allmighty's particular case, one can only disprove an attribute, after which the attribute can be reinterpreted. So we would have to not only prove a negative, we would have to do it while aiming at a moving target.

This is not to argue one side or the other; it is simply to state that the "argument" we're talking about isn't in the realm of argument. It is in the realm of personal reflection.

There is a difference between saying "it can not be proven," and saying "you should not believe it."

An intelligent and intellectually honest man can easily say to himself, "I have neither proof nor disproof; I am therefore free to believe or disbelieve without being a bonehead."

That is not the same thing as saying that his internal reasons to believe are valid once they enter the realm of shared discourse.

This is why I find aggressive proselytizing to be akin to salesmanship, whereas I have the greatest respect for those who search for their own "salvation" or understanding of the spiritual.

Lifer

while we have disagreements over the last part, I appreciate what you have said in this post.
Threads like these, debating if its basically stupid to believe in God or stupid not to, are not very constrictive to thoughtful and meaningful discussion on these matters.

Wildo7

I don't think anyone is stupid simply because they believe in god. I think they are mistaken.

Lifer

you said this in an earlier post

"Having a lower IQ makes it easier to believe in god."

I respect a comment like, "I think they are mistaken"
the IQ comment, on the other hand, makes it sure sound you are question the intelligence of believers.

But i am willing to take you on your word that you are not saying that.

Wildo7

Saying "having a lower IQ makes it easier to elieve in god" is not the same as saying if you believe in god, you're stupid. I was referring to the statistical correlation that the study draws. If I say being from Boston makes you more likely to be a Patriots fan that doesn't mean that all Patriot fans are from boston does it? Of course I think having a lower IQ would make it easier to be mistaken. Doesn't mean everyone who is mistaken has a lower IQ.

Lakesidepatsfan

einstein was jewish
einstein was mega clever

Wildo7

He was Jewish by heritage, did he believe in god?