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Jesus actually was born in April according to research by historians/scholars. The reason we celebrate in late December instead is because it coincides with ages-old pagan festivals marking the winter solstice (shortest day of the year, which is Dec. 21).
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Jesus actually was born in April according to research by historians/scholars. The reason we celebrate in late December instead is because it coincides with ages-old pagan festivals marking the winter solstice (shortest day of the year, which is Dec. 21).
I've heard this before and believe it to be true. If Christ existed at all (I'm not atheist but, I guess I am agnostic.). But, I've also heard that he was born in January and yet another time that he was born in March. I guess the only thing they're sure of is that he was supposedly born early in the year and not in December.
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I've heard this before and believe it to be true. If Christ existed at all (I'm not atheist but, I guess I am agnostic.). But, I've also heard that he was born in January and yet another time that he was born in March. I guess the only thing they're sure of is that he was supposedly born early in the year and not in December.
The Bible suggests as much, in nothing that the shepherds were out watching their herds at night. The reason for this was to ward off predators during the season (spring) when lambs were born.
The Bible suggests as much, in nothing that the shepherds were out watching their herds at night. The reason for this was to ward off predators during the season (spring) when lambs were born.
Glad to see you are taking an interest in the Bible, tunescribe.
Glad to see you are taking an interest in the Bible, tunescribe.
That's nothing new. I wrote a magazine article on this very subject. I'm sure you will agree that our interpretations differ, however, regarding more (ahem) "fundamental" biblical matters.
That's nothing new. I wrote a magazine article on this very subject. I'm sure you will agree that our interpretations differ, however, regarding more (ahem) "fundamental" biblical matters.
its fine to have different interpretations. It doesnt mean you have to label people with interpretations different than yours as dangerous and with no spiritual connection with God.
its fine to have different interpretations. It doesnt mean you have to label people with interpretations different than yours as dangerous and with no spiritual connection with God.
You may not be a "danger" individually, but religious fundamentalism has proven fascist tendencies and must be viewed warily. As for the latter, I believe I've made my point which does not need repeating.
Location: In Indy, trying to get Peyton to autograph my Sprint phone.
Posts: 448
Re: Historical tidbit re., Christ's birth
Hmm, the lambing thing makes a good point in favor of March/April. I learned August was when Jesus was born.
The move to a winter holiday makes perfect sense from a marketing standpoint. I read so many history books and find time after time that Christianity would never have caught on except that a few people exploited it (monarchs converting, clever marketing of holidays to pagans, etc.) in order to gain converts and thus a) maintain public order & b) gain money/property
What's amazing, and sucky, is that WE are stuck with an anachronistic and redundant way of thinking/living 1000 years later, all because of some king's need for exploiting his subjects. Scary, huh? Scarier that it still goes on (W's 'born again' experience...)
It's very tough for us North Americans to imagine Mary and Joseph trudging to Bethlehem in anything but, as Christina Rosetti memorably described it, "the bleak mid-winter," surrounded by "snow on snow on snow." To us, Christmas and December are inseparable. But for the first three centuries of Christianity, Christmas wasn't in December—or on the calendar anywhere.
If observed at all, the celebration of Christ's birth was usually lumped in with Epiphany (January 6), one of the church's earliest established feasts. Some church leaders even opposed the idea of a birth celebration. Origen (c.185-c.254) preached that it would be wrong to honor Christ in the same way Pharaoh and Herod were honored. Birthdays were for pagan gods.
Not all of Origen's contemporaries agreed that Christ's birthday shouldn't be celebrated, and some began to speculate on the date (actual records were apparently long lost). Clement of Alexandria (c.150-c.215) favored May 20 but noted that others had argued for April 18, April 19, and May 28. Hippolytus (c.170-c.236) championed January 2. November 17, November 20, and March 25 all had backers as well. A Latin treatise written around 243 pegged March 21, because that was believed to be the date on which God created the sun. Polycarp (c.69-c.155) had followed the same line of reasoning to conclude that Christ's birth and baptism most likely occurred on Wednesday, because the sun was created on the fourth day.
The eventual choice of December 25, made perhaps as early as 273, reflects a convergence of Origen's concern about pagan gods and the church's identification of God's son with the celestial sun. December 25 already hosted two other related festivals: natalis solis invicti (the Roman "birth of the unconquered sun"), and the birthday of Mithras, the Iranian "Sun of Righteousness" whose worship was popular with Roman soldiers. The winter solstice, another celebration of the sun, fell just a few days earlier. Seeing that pagans were already exalting deities with some parallels to the true deity, church leaders decided to commandeer the date and introduce a new festival.
Western Christians first celebrated Christmas on December 25 in 336, after Emperor Constantine had declared Christianity the empire's favored religion. Eastern churches, however, held on to January 6 as the date for Christ's birth and his baptism. Most easterners eventually adopted December 25, celebrating Christ's birth on the earlier date and his baptism on the latter, but the Armenian church celebrates his birth on January 6. Incidentally, the Western church does celebrate Epiphany on January 6, but as the arrival date of the Magi rather than as the date of Christ's baptism.
Another wrinkle was added in the sixteenth century when Pope Gregory devised a new calendar, which was unevenly adopted. The Eastern Orthodox and some Protestants retained the Julian calendar, which meant they celebrated Christmas 13 days later than their Gregorian counterparts. Most—but not all—of the Christian world now agrees on the Gregorian calendar and the December 25 date.
The pagan origins of the Christmas date, as well as pagan origins for many Christmas customs (gift-giving and merrymaking from Roman Saturnalia; greenery, lights, and charity from the Roman New Year; Yule logs and various foods from Teutonic feasts), have always fueled arguments against the holiday. "It's just paganism wrapped with a Christian bow," naysayers argue. But while kowtowing to worldliness must always be a concern for Christians, the church has generally viewed efforts to reshape culture—including holidays—positively. As a theologian asserted in 320, "We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but because of him who made it."
Historical tidbit re., Christ's birth
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