"Pastor" Rick Warren prayed to Isa - the "Jesus" of the Quran at Obama's inauguration - New England Patriots Forums

DisgruntledTunaFan · 05-12-2009, 03:41 AM

YouTube - Rick Warren Prays to the Jesus of the Quran

***reflexblue*** · 05-12-2009, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisgruntledTunaFan

YouTube - Rick Warren Prays to the Jesus of the Quran

All i have to say is SO,

I could be wrong but I think he prayed out of several different relgious texts that day.

Wildo7 · 05-12-2009, 03:55 AM

they're all imaginary anyway.

***Terry Glenn is a cowgirl*** · 05-15-2009, 07:27 PM

if you're a Chrisitian pastor, you're pretty much supposed to pray to 1 God.

This Warren joker, is a sham-wow.

PatsFanInVa · 05-25-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

if you're a Chrisitian pastor, you're pretty much supposed to pray to 1 God.

This Warren joker, is a sham-wow.

Well, three actually, but that's a whole other kettle of Jesus-fish.

The question of whether you call a Jewish guy by a greek name or an arabic name makes very little sense to me.

"Jesus" is not a name Jesus' mother would have used to call him in Aramaic or in Hebrew (if she were addressing him in some fit of outmoded pious formality.) There is no hard "J" in those languages (as in Arabic.) The South Semitic "Isa" is probably wrong too, but closer. Eashoa is probably what Jesus would recognize as what he was called througout his life. Yohashua, possibly shortened from there with a half-ellision of the "ha" sound (Yo'ahsua) might ring a bell for a liturgical name. But he'd laugh at anybody calling him "Jesus" and claiming that "Isa" was a perversion of his name.

Like it or not, "Isa" is easily as close to Eoshua as is "Jesus."

But as the Bard said, what's in a name?

PFnV

PatsFanInVa · 05-25-2009, 04:13 PM

Oh by the way, another coda here:

Arabic-speaking Christians pray to Allah, and call Jesus "Isa". Middle Eastern Muslims also pray to Allah, and also refer to "Isa". English speaking Christians pray to God. In France, they pray to Dieu. Your own particular prejudice of birth and culture is immaterials in determining the faith of a particular speaker. Jews typically do not write the proper name of God in Hebrew, which is spelled with the Hebrew characters yud, heh, vav, and heh. You often hear Jews use the name "Adonai," which means "sovereign" or "lord," but is more a rank than a name. (Other biblical sobriquets are similarly not considered THE name of God, but are ways to refer to God -- so they are names but not the proper name.)

So the notion that Warren chooses to use the Arabic name of Jesus does not make a lot of doctrinal difference. If you believe that Christianity is a form of monotheism, and the minority of the world that is Christian does believe that, then Rick Warren has not introduced polytheism by using "Isa" as a name for "Jesus," and would furthermore not be a Muslim because he uses the Arabic "Allah," any more than he is a Germanic pagan because he uses the Northern European "God."

PFnV

godef · 05-26-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanInVa

Oh by the way, another coda here:

Arabic-speaking Christians pray to Allah, and call Jesus "Isa". Middle Eastern Muslims also pray to Allah, and also refer to "Isa". English speaking Christians pray to God. In France, they pray to Dieu. Your own particular prejudice of birth and culture is immaterials in determining the faith of a particular speaker. Jews typically do not write the proper name of God in Hebrew, which is spelled with the Hebrew characters yud, heh, vav, and heh. You often hear Jews use the name "Adonai," which means "sovereign" or "lord," but is more a rank than a name. (Other biblical sobriquets are similarly not considered THE name of God, but are ways to refer to God -- so they are names but not the proper name.)

So the notion that Warren chooses to use the Arabic name of Jesus does not make a lot of doctrinal difference. If you believe that Christianity is a form of monotheism, and the minority of the world that is Christian does believe that, then Rick Warren has not introduced polytheism by using "Isa" as a name for "Jesus," and would furthermore not be a Muslim because he uses the Arabic "Allah," any more than he is a Germanic pagan because he uses the Northern European "God."

PFnV

FYI, "Dieu" is nothing more than "God" in French, ie, it's only has to do with language translation, not a different entity. Otherwise, it's the same God that Catholics and other Christians pray to. I have no clue, but I would presume this is the case in the majority of differences you site. But I see in your second paragraph that that was the point you were leading to.

***Terry Glenn is a cowgirl*** · 05-28-2009, 12:15 AM

There is only 1 God.

You can call him JHVH if you want...

PatsFanInVa · 05-28-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

There is only 1 God.

You can call him JHVH if you want...

That is in accordance with Judaism and Islam, and is a very clear point in both. In Christianity, there is an innovative notion called a trinity, which, were it monotheism, would really have to be called a singularity or something.

But I know, I know, it's a mystery. It's only understood by Christians how that's a single God, and I am an outsider. It's just a different use of "monotheism" from the one to which the rest of us have become accustomed.

However, all this is a battle of "concepts," and the experience of God is all we can really have any knowledge of. So by and large, walking around with a stricter notion of monotheism isn't much use, so long as we're silly enough to believe we truly understand the divine in a way that can be expressed verbally. We don't.

All that to say, I don't think Christianity is strictly speaking monotheistic, but it's only so important. Holding to one God, and relating to him as a sort of simple and accessible human-like intelligence makes just as little sense as imagining a dozen or a thousand such figures.