Wolf on the OL: I *Think* We Have the Pieces to Compete... Oy Vey...

[Wozzy]

They can't replace everyone and Bill left a lot of holes to be filled.

This is simply not true. They needed to find three positions this offseason, important ones, but not a lot: QB, OT, WR

Remove: Chukwuma Okorafor (3.1M), Vederian Lowe (0), Jaylin Polk

Add: Oli Udoh (2M), Andrus Peat (450K), Yosh Nijman (5M), Patrick Paul

Difference in dollars: 4.3 million guaranteed added.

Do this and the offensive line could have been great this year... great. Yosh Nijman could even be considered a luxury, they could have simply signed Peat and Udoh and actually saved 650K. If someone insists that Polk is some transcendental WR fine, don't draft Paul and you still have a great line, you just missed out on a potential stud LT who can grow with your young QB. All three of the linemen I added can also shift inside to guard, providing ultimate flexibility and depth in case of injury.

There were better cheaper options than Chuks and relying on Lowe who was a turnstile last year. That was a choice, a poor one. Money and resources is not an excuse.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Why do you think it is most likely the personnel department was feeling ignored?

Because someone was leaking to the press that Bill was making the picks based on his own decisions rather than the scouting. That suggests to me it was someone in the personnel department, and if they were telling the media, they were probably telling ownership, too, in the hope that when Bill lost his job that they wouldn't lose theirs.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Because someone was leaking to the press that Bill was making the picks based on his own decisions rather than the scouting. That suggests to me it was someone in the personnel department, and if they were telling the media, they were probably telling ownership, too, in the hope that when Bill lost his job that they wouldn't lose theirs.

Good point. I would not say, if I was guessing, that it was "most likely". In this post you say "suggests to me" and previously you said "most likely".

I agree BB was not a collaborative type guy and some personalities probably did not feel "heard". I am not sure that was a lot of the staff. In my experience, the people that feel left out usually complain the most but are in the minority.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Good point. I would not say, if I was guessing, that it was "most likely". In this post you say "suggests to me" and previously you said "most likely".

I agree BB was not a collaborative type guy and some personalities probably did not feel "heard". I am not sure that was a lot of the staff. In my experience, the people that feel left out usually complain the most but are in the minority.

While you're probably right, I just remember reading the media reports of the scouts shaking their heads as the pick was made and the report that Bill had made his own pick in the first or second round. Someone had to tell the media that, and whose water does it carry by reporting it to the media?

This thread started because of the surprise that Kraft would keep the personnel from Bill's tenure if the reason he was fired was because of the drafting. So how did that happen?

I definitely didn't mean to say the entire personnel department felt ignored. But I would bet that Groh and/or Wolf did and they were the ones leaking the stories about the picks to the media (and probably Kraft). And low and behold now Wolf with Groh's help is running the show.

 

[Clonamery]

While you're probably right, I just remember reading the media reports of the scouts shaking their heads as the pick was made and the report that Bill had made his own pick in the first or second round. Someone had to tell the media that, and whose water does it carry by reporting it to the media?

This thread started because of the surprise that Kraft would keep the personnel from Bill's tenure if the reason he was fired was because of the drafting. So how did that happen?

I definitely didn't mean to say the entire personnel department felt ignored. But I would bet that Groh and/or Wolf did and they were the ones leaking the stories about the picks to the media (and probably Kraft). And low and behold now Wolf with Groh's help is running the show.

The Packer Way....

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

While you're probably right, I just remember reading the media reports of the scouts shaking their heads as the pick was made and the report that Bill had made his own pick in the first or second round. Someone had to tell the media that, and whose water does it carry by reporting it to the media?

This thread started because of the surprise that Kraft would keep the personnel from Bill's tenure if the reason he was fired was because of the drafting. So how did that happen?

I definitely didn't mean to say the entire personnel department felt ignored. But I would bet that Groh and/or Wolf did and they were the ones leaking the stories about the picks to the media (and probably Kraft). And low and behold now Wolf with Groh's help is running the show.

The 2023 draft, under this staff, might be the best draft we ever had. We have Gonzo, White, Sow, Douglas, and Baringer that start this year. If Mapu and J Andrews can get healthy, they both looked good their rookie years. Some think Boutte will make the team and we will see about Ryland. Mafi looks like a bust. We might end up with 7 starters in one draft which is unheard of. Why not keep the personnel that did a great job last year?

It sounds like you think BB made all the picks and the personnel didn't like the picks so Kraft should have let the personnel go?

 

[mike_usagisan]

The 2023 draft, under this staff, might be the best draft we ever had. We have Gonzo, White, Sow, Douglas, and Baringer that start this year. If Mapu and J Andrews can get healthy, they both looked good their rookie years. Some think Boutte will make the team and we will see about Ryland. Mafi looks like a bust. We might end up with 7 starters in one draft which is unheard of. Why not keep the personnel that did a great job last year?

It sounds like you think BB made all the picks and the personnel didn't like the picks so Kraft should have let the personnel go?

I think part of the narrative for why Bill was fired was because he couldn't draft offensive players very well, that the offensive players they signed weren't good enough and he made bad coaching decisions. If you're saying that he was solely let go because of coaching decisions, and that the drafting was overplayed by the media, then Kraft keeping the personnel department makes sense. If there is any truth to Kraft and the media having concerns over the drafting, it becomes a question of why did Kraft keep the personnel department largely intact. That only makes sense if someone told Kraft that Bill was picking differently than the personnel department had suggested.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think part of the narrative for why Bill was fired was because he couldn't draft offensive players very well, that the offensive players they signed weren't good enough and he made bad coaching decisions. If you're saying that he was solely let go because of coaching decisions, and that the drafting was overplayed by the media, then Kraft keeping the personnel department makes sense. If there is any truth to Kraft and the media having concerns over the drafting, it becomes a question of why did Kraft keep the personnel department largely intact. That only makes sense if someone told Kraft that Bill was picking differently than the personnel department had suggested.

Sounds like we don't really know, so I would not say any guess was "most likely". But that is me.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Sounds like we don't really know, so I would not say any guess was "most likely". But that is me.

Fair enough.

 

[PatsFan2]

Sounds like we don't really know, so I would not say any guess was "most likely". But that is me.

I thought mike nailed it!

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I thought mike nailed it!

There are only guesses, no-one really knows. It is not possible to "nail" a guess.

 

[captain stone]

The 2023 draft, under this staff, might be the best draft we ever had…

Surely you can’t be serious.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Surely you can’t be serious.

What other drafts produced 5 to 7 starters?

 

[captain stone]

What other drafts produced 5 to 7 starters?

What 7 starters are those?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

What 7 starters are those?

It was detailed in my original post.

 

[Wozzy]

Anyone think the Patriots wanted to try out the younger guys at LT, they told Lowe so he pulled up lame at practice?

I'd never root for injury... but pray one of these young guys takes that job.

 

[Pape]

Anyone think the Patriots wanted to try out the younger guys at LT, they told Lowe so he pulled up lame at practice?

I'd never root for injury... but pray one of these young guys takes that job.

while I can appreciate a good conspiracy theory involving the Foxboro Flu, Lowe is on a cheap contract... don't think that's the case this time around...

wonder if this opens the door for a return of james ferentz though...

 

[Wozzy]

while I can appreciate a good conspiracy theory involving the Foxboro Flu, Lowe is on a cheap contract... don't think that's the case this time around...

wonder if this opens the door for a return of james ferentz though...

Sure, but it would paint Lowe in a better light if he was the starter and got hurt. I don’t think this is a conspiracy by the team, possibly the player.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The 2023 draft, under this staff, might be the best draft we ever had.

It's an incomplete right now for me. We need to see Gonzo play a full season. Douglas may be a nice find, but I don't see him as a high volume WR. The door is open for White. He either rotates at DE with Wise or starts at Edge. I disagree on Mapu. Aside from his INT on Mahomes, he looked Chris Carter esque his rookie season. Barringer is a "super punter". Jake Andrews should've made David Andrews expendable already.

With that said, it doesn't come close to franchise altering drafts of 1995, 1996 and 2010. Those draft produced quality starters/future super stars from day 1.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It's an incomplete right now for me. We need to see Gonzo play a full season. Douglas may be a nice find, but I don't see him as a high volume WR. The door is open for White. He either rotates at DE with Wise or starts at Edge. I disagree on Mapu. Aside from his INT on Mahomes, he looked Chris Carter esque his rookie season. Barringer is a "super punter". Jake Andrews should've made David Andrews expendable already.

With that said, it doesn't come close to franchise altering drafts of 1995, 1996 and 2010. Those draft produced quality starters/future super stars from day 1.

I agree it is a stretch, but Gonzo, White, Douglas, Sow, and Baringer could all be special. That is 5 starters so that is a great draft.

J Andrews as a rookie is not going to push out team captain D Andrews, expecially with BB as a coach. This year J Andrews is injured so we do not know. J Andrews could emerge.

Mapu had some good games and is injured. Still a work in progress, but he could be good.

Boutte, Ryland, and Bolden could contribute, but it is less likely.

Mafi and Speed are busts.

That is a good draft. Probably not the best ever draft, but Top 5 if the guys develop.