Wilhite over Wheatley ... Guyton over Crable

[MrBigglesWorth]

Maybe they wanted to get Mayo a ton of playing time prior to the bye week and now they will cut back on his playing time to keep him fresh for the rest of the season.

I could easily seeing him breaking down if he continues to play every snap.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Maybe they wanted to get Mayo a ton of playing time prior to the bye week and now they will cut back on his playing time to keep him fresh for the rest of the season.

I could easily seeing him breaking down if he continues to play every snap.

I favor the view that the D braintrust has a plethora of talent, esp at LB, to work with and as all the youngsters develop they'll get a chance to produce in a creative defensive package. It's early in the season, plenty of time for various rooks to find a place. Baring injury, I'm glad we don't need a Seau from the shadow roster, as much as I love the guy. Let the Guytons bloom. It's better for the franchise.

 

[DaBruinz]

I know that Guyton is a superior special-teams player, but it would seem to me like if they intended to use this new package on defense, with 4 LB's and 6 DB's, Crable would get the activation nod due to his superior defense. Perhaps Martz just caught them off-guard and they countered with the speed package and didn't intend to use Guyton on defense... but... if that is not the case, why did Guyton get the nod over Crable? Guyton did have the fastest 40 of LB's at the combine, so it would make sense that they would use him on the speed package. But even so... I don't think having just a faster 40 time would be enough to give him the nod, if he sucked at everything else. Obviously he has been close enough(or superior) to Crable in every area, that his speed was enough to bump him over Crable. Special-teams also can't explain Wilhite playing CB over Wheatley when both were active.

I'm not sure what to think. I'm not sure if we just made a great 4th round pick and UDFA pick-up, that have played above expectations, or that Wheatley and Crable aren't playing(well... practicing) up to expectations. Thoughts?

Wilhite over Wheatley - BB answered this one. Wilhite has been taking most of his reps inside while Wheatley has been taking them outside. So, puttin Wilhite in when they needed another corner was the logical choice. BB also said that both players will end up learning both positions, but that right now, they have different skill sets.

Guyton over Crable - Umm.. Guyton's an ILB. Crable is an OLB. Guyton is 3rd on the depth chart at ILB. Crable is 4th in the OLBs. How you are even attempting to compare the two is beyond me when they are at different positions.

 

[DaBruinz]

I have no idea how you are saying this as fact and basing your whole thread on this.could go back explain why crabel is superior in defence.

also ,vrabel has a very avg year inside and got 12 sacks last year and 2 playing the OLB position.so i am confused with the whole lets move him so he can be avg player again.I always thought the coach job is to put his players in the best position to make plays and obviously i am wrong.

Woods is about 20lbs smaller than vrabel. vrabel and AD gives us 2 guys who play defensive end and lineup against tackles and too big for TE to block woods and crabel are smaller which means the tackle /TE wil have a easier time moving them off the LOS for running plays.

Where are you getting that Woods and Crable are smaller lighter than Vrabel? Because Patriots.com says so? We've learned over the years that the site doesn't post the exact heights and weights. Woods was 6'4 3/8" and 250 at his combine. Crable was 6'4 7/8" and 245. But I also know that Crable lost weight for the combine to try and increase his speed. Vrabel lists out at 6'4 and 261. Hardly the 20 lbs you are claiming between Woods and Vrabel. And I think its also a fallacy for you to imply that they are easier to move off the line because of 10-15 lbs of weight difference. Much of what the LBs do is based on leverage and, on running plays, they aren't supposed to be engaging the linemen. The OLBer is supposed to set the end on an outside running play, forcing the RB inside. On an inside running play, its the ILBers responsibility to hit the RB in the gaps.

Again , why would you lighten up on your edge setters ?. Is this something to do with lighter faster and cannot stop the run approach?.

bru backup now is guyton and i am sure crabel being the 4th in the depth chart will help him.In the goal line stand woods was in their lining up against the TE in coverage or blocking as he is lighter a bit faster.

You are confusing height/weight with speed and skills.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

tart's original question about why Guyton over Crable and Wilhite over Wheatley has been answered over the course of this thread, his concern for the draft rankings of the various players has been touched on too. I would like to echo some others who have used this opportunity to rejoice in this season's rookie crop: :woohoo:

There is no bad news with this class:

Mayo is starting and seemed to me to look a little more instinctive and less "thoughtful" against SF. He's leaps and bounds ahead of any other rookie ILB of the BB era. Grade - progressing nicely.

Guyton has earned playing time in each of the games played, he was in a little more against SF in a sub-package. Only Mayo is further ahead of him at ILB in the BB era. Grade - progressing nicely.

**** Engberg noted during the SF broadcast that Bruschi was excited about Mayo and Guyton reporting they asked the same questions he did when he was a rookie. I like the sound of that...and the comfirmation is in the playing time. :woohoo:

The model for rookie CBs is Gay and Hobbs. Both were developed behind veterans, in some cases sub-performing veterans, until BB was ready to throw them into the fire mid-season.

Wheatley saw more game reps against SF then he has in previous games - he's on track with his predecessors. Grade - progressing nicely.

Wilhite also saw more game reps in SF then he has previously - he's also on track with his predecessors. Grade - progressing nicely.

Slater has been a key Special Teams player, which is what many here predicted when he was drafted. Grade - progressing nicely.

The model for OLB development is Tully Banta-Cain and Pierre Woods. Both were exclusively Special Teams players their first two seasons and began seeing more game reps in their third seasons.

Crable has been inactive. First, someone has to. Second, BB has spoken well of his work and progress in practice. Third, he hasn't been cut, which adds "some" credence to the second point. Fourth, he is #4 on the depth chart, which goes back to the first point. His not playing Special Teams like TBC and Woods isn't a negative - BB has been actively building his Special Teams back up after they were so shaky a couple year back: Aiken, Washington, Ventrone, Slater are all signings with STs in mind; Woods, Alexander, Izzo are all established LB STs vets whom you would expect to play ahead of Shawn; Guyton beat him out at STs, not a black mark by any means. Grade - progressing per BB (IBBIT).

O'Connell - he's the #2 QB ahead of Gutierrez. Grade - progressing nicely.

Add in the Practice Squad: Redd, Green-Ellis, DeVree, Wendell, Adams, and I'll include Dillard who has yoyo-ed once already and could be back...

This is a nice looking class of draftees. Good thread tart, it gave us a chance to focus on the rooks' progress. Very encouraging.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I also don't think they'd be giving someone playing time for the sake of playing time in such a close game. For whatever reason, they thought Wilhite gave them the best chance to win in that situation and that game.

I agree. I think that for the packages in question that Wilhite and Guyton have shown something that the coaches like better. The coaches put the players in to win the game. That doesn't make Mayo chopped liver, that means it appears that he is behind in learning to cover vs the pass. Hopefully Wheatley and Mayo will improve in those areas. But again it is impressive that we can stick in rookie 4th rounder and UDFA respectively and have them doing alright.