What upgrades are essential to the defense?

[VJCPatriot]

A safety or even two is a priority (one FA and one drafted). Other than Mayo in our system, Rookies on the defense hardly ever start right away unless there is no one else to go. A drafted safety helps us really only in 2010.
DW Toys

Didn't Eugene Wilson start right away? I think that it is more dependant on the player. Some guys can come in and start right away - See Seymour, Mankins, Wilson, Mayo, etc. Some can't.

The Pats have needs everywhere on defense except DL (assuming resigning). I'd say safety is the most glaring hole, then passrushing OLB, then another corner to challenge hobbs/wheatley/wilhite for a starting role. A replacement for Bruschi at ILB would be nice but not a necessity with Guyton and Mayo manning the middle.

If I were the Patriots I'd attempt to plug in two defensive positions via free agency, then draft the others. Looking at this year's free agent class, getting a top flight OLB is worth the money considering they can play right away. And then you can get a solid safety to team up with Meriweather as well. That means in the draft you can just worry about drafting corners and an ILB and maybe a backup NT/DE.

 

[DarrylS]

Biggest need is CB, this group was obviously deficient.. not sure if Wheatley and Wilhite can fulfill this need yet.. look for continued efforts to upgrade this group.

LB's continue to bring in new folks, as much as Mayo, Guyton and Redd breathed some new life into this area and this is obvious progress.. all seemed to struggle in pass defense. With Thomas and Vrabel back, and using Tedy as a "bridge" player.. there is at least one or two openings here.. maybe Crabel will develop, but there are too many unknowns here.. would prefer some more certainty, or as much certainty as you can have.

Safety, would love to find a Troy or Ed Lewis in the fifth round, but that will never happen... but have to try to develop depth at both positions.. Rodney will be back, but his tendency to get hurt so much lately makes him somewhat unreliable.

D Line is great, and would wait to address it as it is our strength.

 

[dhamz]

The DL is fine for 2009, needs resignings for the future.

Playmakers at LB and in the scondary are the essential upgrades. That is the major difference between the defense of the last few years and the Super Bowl defenses. The team stats probably look the same. The difference is those defenses always made the stops when they needed them in big games. This defense hasn't in the last few years.

Rodney, Tedy, and Vrabel have been those big play guys for so long but they aren't anymore. They can still play reduced roles effectively specifically on running downs.

Mayo is the answer at 1 ILB spot for the next 8-10 years. Thomas makes plays as an OLB. I believe he has 16 starts at OLB over the last 2 years and 11 sacks. Meriweather came on late this year and if it continues he solidifies a S spot.

That's about it for LB and secondary spots that I wouldn't look at and try to upgrade. They won't be able to upgrade them all nor do they need to. If they were to upgrade for example 1 corner spot and the OLB spot opposite Thomas, suddenly serviceable starters like James Sanders and Ellis Hobbs will look better in coverage.

They have certainly added some young guys to the mix who may develop. I'd expect they will add more young guys in the draft and hopefully a veteran or two.

They need to upgrade the defense we saw last year.

 

[Brettlax3434]

i didnt say we have an average secondary, i said that a good pass rush makes an average secondary elite. If we could get one dominant pass rusher off of the edge in the draft, he will make the entire defense look better. Including the weak secondary.

 

[willdeespats]

The DL is fine for 2009, needs resignings for the future.

Playmakers at LB and in the scondary are the essential upgrades. That is the major difference between the defense of the last few years and the Super Bowl defenses. The team stats probably look the same. The difference is those defenses always made the stops when they needed them in big games. This defense hasn't in the last few years.

Rodney, Tedy, and Vrabel have been those big play guys for so long but they aren't anymore. They can still play reduced roles effectively specifically on running downs.

Mayo is the answer at 1 ILB spot for the next 8-10 years. Thomas makes plays as an OLB. I believe he has 16 starts at OLB over the last 2 years and 11 sacks. Meriweather came on late this year and if it continues he solidifies a S spot.

That's about it for LB and secondary spots that I wouldn't look at and try to upgrade. They won't be able to upgrade them all nor do they need to. If they were to upgrade for example 1 corner spot and the OLB spot opposite Thomas, suddenly serviceable starters like James Sanders and Ellis Hobbs will look better in coverage.

They have certainly added some young guys to the mix who may develop. I'd expect they will add more young guys in the draft and hopefully a veteran or two.

They need to upgrade the defense we saw last year.

I have a little different perspective on Vrabel's reduced sack numbers. His 2007 season numbers came primarily when OTs were trying to block him with a TE or RB. Towards the end of that season and almost all of last year, they put an OT on him and that bigger(and likely stronger) blocker was much more effective in keeping him out of the play. (As an aside, almost any TE/RB could handle Colvin). With Thomas, OTs tried the same thing but Thomas is just bigger enough and faster enough to get by many OTs. When Thomas went down, there was not an OLB that could effectively replace him and so defenses were free to just concentrate on Vrabel. Since both Thomas and Vrabel can play ILB, what I think is needed is an OLB of the Thomas/Vrabel caliber either through freeagency or the draft(a 1st round draft pick like Mayo who can start from day 1).

 

[iapatsfan]

I have a little different perspective on Vrabel's reduced sack numbers. His 2007 season numbers came primarily when OTs were trying to block him with a TE or RB. Towards the end of that season and almost all of last year, they put an OT on him and that bigger(and likely stronger) blocker was much more effective in keeping him out of the play. (As an aside, almost any TE/RB could handle Colvin). With Thomas, OTs tried the same thing but Thomas is just bigger enough and faster enough to get by many OTs. When Thomas went down, there was not an OLB that could effectively replace him and so defenses were free to just concentrate on Vrabel. Since both Thomas and Vrabel can play ILB, what I think is needed is an OLB of the Thomas/Vrabel caliber either through freeagency or the draft(a 1st round draft pick like Mayo who can start from day 1).

Amen! This is what I have been saying since this thread started. I don't know how anyone can say DB is our biggest concern. We could draft the best Safety or Corner any team has ever drafted, but if QBs have the amount of time they had last year, that player will be worthless. In a 3-4 you must generate pressure from your LBs. If you are not able to do that the entire defense suffers. Does anyone think T. Poole was an above average Corner, or Eugene Wilson was an above average Safety? The reason our D was so solid in 03 and 04 was because of the pass rush they could create. I am talking about constant pressure, not just sacks. QBs had nowhere near the time back then that they have now against our D.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

"Essential" upgrades/replacements: SILB/ILB Reserve, NT Reserve, #5 DE Reserve, FS, S Reserve

Desirable: CB depth, OLB competition.

 

[RayClay]

"Essential" upgrades/replacements: SILB/ILB Reserve, NT Reserve, #5 DE Reserve, FS, S Reserve

Desirable: CB depth, OLB competition.

I think we have the OLB competition. We could use a winner.

 

[patsox23]

Other than Jerod Mayo, their LB's are a mess right now. Vrabel should be on his way out, Bruschi's time is up and Adalius Thomas is very close to being in the "overpaying FA" category. A.T. better step up his game next season and make more of an impact on the field like he did late in the regular season and '08 superbowl. The Pats should know better to not overpay for someone that justs sits in coverage. Woods is worthless, Redd hasn't shown a damn thing and Crable has become the savior at OLB. However, Guyton has shown flashes but nothing to suggest he can take on the duties full time.

In what world is Pierre Woods "worthless?" Based on what? Nobody's claiming the guy's a savior or the Next Big Thing, but he's a very useful player, who has gradually become a decent playmaker at a position of need. He has upside and he's shown a little something. We're all frustrated he got hurt last year, but to that point he'd done a good job.

"Worthless?" Come on. That's just ridiculous. It's the kind of thing that makes people stop reading the rest of your post - just as I did.

 

[jbb9s]

I wouldn't be opposed to an upgrade at OLB, but last year the Pats were without there top 4 pass rushers. Thomas, Crable, Woods - IR, Vrabel - old, tired and slow.

Crable was a top 4 pass rusher? I don't remember him ever playing?

 

[jbb9s]

Desirable: CB depth, OLB competition.

Wilhite and Wheatley are both unproven. Wheatley played well before his unfortunate injury. But to be honest, no one has any idea about how good they will play next year nor their long term development.

Basically what I am saying is "CB depth" should be revised to "CB". In fact, unless we want to see the jamming ability of a cast off C-rate player again (i.e. Deltha), the Pats should address the starting CB position with the assumption both the aforementioned second year players will combine to be a formidable dime/backup combo.

 

[cstjohn17]

Crable was a top 4 pass rusher? I don't remember him ever playing?

Just based on the fact that he was on the opening day roster at OLB bumped him to 4th by default. All of these will be back but the questions is are they JAGS?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Wilhite and Wheatley are both unproven. Wheatley played well before his unfortunate injury. But to be honest, no one has any idea about how good they will play next year nor their long term development.

Basically what I am saying is "CB depth" should be revised to "CB". In fact, unless we want to see the jamming ability of a cast off C-rate player again (i.e. Deltha), the Pats should address the starting CB position with the assumption both the aforementioned second year players will combine to be a formidable dime/backup combo.

Semantics my friend. Both Wheatley and Wilhite progressed to the point where they started over O'Neal before the end of the season. Wheatley's injury muddies the water, but he did earn one start right on target for the development schedule BB used to bring Gay and Hobbs along as rookie starters.

I have no problem with putting another CB on the shopping list (I believe Richardson still has Practice Squad eligibility), but BB will probably want Lewis Sanders or another vet to help groom the youngsters further so it will be a balancing act between CB and S for roster space. I can see grabbing an Alphonso Smith or another top CB on Day One if they just grade out better than the other options when NE picks, but I'd be just as happy with one on Day Two to compete for #4-5 CB.

 

[mgteich]

I suspect that a TE, OG, or a S will grade out better when we pick at 23. However, I agree with your point. I'm fine with wherever Belichick chooses to draft defensive backs. We are likely to be fine in 2009 at corner with Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite and Lew Sanders. Belichick will of course bring in more veterans to compete in camp, as he always does.

Semantics my friend. Both Wheatley and Wilhite progressed to the point where they started over O'Neal before the end of the season. Wheatley's injury muddies the water, but he did earn one start right on target for the development schedule BB used to bring Gay and Hobbs along as rookie starters.

I have no problem with putting another CB on the shopping list (I believe Richardson still has Practice Squad eligibility), but BB will probably want Lewis Sanders or another vet to help groom the youngsters further so it will be a balancing act between CB and S for roster space. I can see grabbing an Alphonso Smith or another top CB on Day One if they just grade out better than the other options when NE picks, but I'd be just as happy with one on Day Two to compete for #4-5 CB.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

In what world is Pierre Woods "worthless?" Based on what? Nobody's claiming the guy's a savior or the Next Big Thing, but he's a very useful player, who has gradually become a decent playmaker at a position of need. He has upside and he's shown a little something. We're all frustrated he got hurt last year, but to that point he'd done a good job.

"Worthless?" Come on. That's just ridiculous. It's the kind of thing that makes people stop reading the rest of your post - just as I did.

A decent playmaker huh? Please tell what plays he has made at the LB position? Oh yeah, that's what I thought. Woods is a good special teamer, nothing else! He will probably never be a good starting OLB for the Pats. His only career sack came when Favre flopped to the ground like he did for Strahan's record breaking sack.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

A decent playmaker huh? Please tell what plays he has made at the LB position? Oh yeah, that's what I thought. Woods is a good special teamer, nothing else! He will probably never be a good starting OLB for the Pats. His only career sack came when Favre flopped to the ground like he did for Strahan's record breaking sack.

Gently now laddy, Pierre proved to be quite servicable as a starter after Adalius went down, leading to a couple different articles reporting how pleasantly surprised the Coaches were with his game. Remember Vrabel, Bruschi, and Adalius Thomas were just good Special Teams kids in their third seasons. I'd be comfortable starting Pierre opposite Vrabes and moving Adalius back inside - as long as we can get a Clint Sintim who has enough 3-4 experience and tools to take reps as a rookie.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Gently now laddy, Pierre proved to be quite servicable as a starter after Adalius went down, leading to a couple different articles reporting how pleasantly surprised the Coaches were with his game. Remember Vrabel, Bruschi, and Adalius Thomas were just good Special Teams kids in their third seasons. I'd be comfortable starting Pierre opposite Vrabes and moving Adalius back inside - as long as we can get a Clint Sintim who has enough 3-4 experience and tools to take reps as a rookie.

Very good points regarding Vrabel and Thomas playing special teams for a few years. I'll give you that. However, I wouldn't be comfortable with him starting on the outside with Vrabel and Thomas on the inside. If the Pats don't add any pass rushing LB's, I would hope they at least sign somebody that can play on the inside with Mayo. In addition, I really want to see Crable rushing the passer next year. This is what I would like to see:

OLB: Vrabel
MLB: Mayo
MLB: FA signee/draft pick
OLB: Thomas rushing the passer

*Crable comes in often to give OLB's a breather and rush the passer.

 

[jbb9s]

Semantics my friend. Both Wheatley and Wilhite progressed to the point where they started over O'Neal before the end of the season. Wheatley's injury muddies the water, but he did earn one start right on target for the development schedule BB used to bring Gay and Hobbs along as rookie starters.

I have no problem with putting another CB on the shopping list (I believe Richardson still has Practice Squad eligibility), but BB will probably want Lewis Sanders or another vet to help groom the youngsters further so it will be a balancing act between CB and S for roster space. I can see grabbing an Alphonso Smith or another top CB on Day One if they just grade out better than the other options when NE picks, but I'd be just as happy with one on Day Two to compete for #4-5 CB.

If I remember correctly, the only reason Gay was a starter is because both Law and Poole got hurt and Asante and Gay were forced to start. I think anyone that watched the Eagles SB would have preferred someone other than Gay on the games best receiver (although God was on TOs side so I guess that is pretty unfair to Gay). Anyway, as for Richardson- I would have to admit that out of 150 corner backs in the league right now, he is probably in the bottom 10% percentile.

 

[JSn]

Very good points regarding Vrabel and Thomas playing special teams for a few years. I'll give you that. However, I wouldn't be comfortable with him starting on the outside with Vrabel and Thomas on the inside. If the Pats don't add any pass rushing LB's, I would hope they at least sign somebody that can play on the inside with Mayo. In addition, I really want to see Crable rushing the passer next year. This is what I would like to see:

OLB: Vrabel
MLB: Mayo
MLB: FA signee/draft pick
OLB: Thomas rushing the passer

*Crable comes in often to give OLB's a breather and rush the passer.

I think we feel more depleted at LB than we ought to. How about rotating Vrabel inside on occasion and keeping Woods greased up to replace him?