Vince Wilfork/DL play

[Brownfan80]

I for one was heavy handed with my loathing towards the play of Vince Wilfork during the early portion of the season. I still believe that the critisism he recieved at that time was entirely justified. I still think that many of the DL problems during that span were caused by him being completely ineffective. He was routinely handled by one blocker leaving his DL mates to be doubled.

But as one of the guys that was down on him, i must now tip my hat. His play has improved. One blocker is now no longer enough. He's requiring double teams and still makin plays in spite of the new attention. Whatever he's been doing differently has worked.

Some may point to the return of Seymour as why Wilfork has looked better, and that certainly may be part of it, but Seymour's return has not suddenly made Wilfork require a double team. If anything, Seymour's return would actually increase the probability of a single-block on Wilfork, but that hasn't been the case. Wilfork is playing better, requiring double teams, and freeing up the Linebackers to make plays. Bravo. I sincerely hope the DL can keep this up as we head into the playoffs, because if they do, we'll be very hard to stop. If they return to their early season woes, look for an early exit from the playoffs. It's become more and more obvious that the DL play is paramount to the success of this defense.

Go Patriots.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Big Vince seems to be getting better leverage and getting his hands under the pads of the O linemen. Shedding his blocks a lot better.

He was not doing that all of the time earlier in the year. Why, I don't know.

 

[Richter]

Big Vince seems to be getting better leverage and getting his hands under the pads of the O linemen. Shedding his blocks a lot better.

He was not doing that all of the time earlier in the year. Why, I don't know.

I still say a lot of it had to do with being a young player, and conditioning. He's likely played himself into better shape, and gained some valuable experience and coaching over that time. Most D-Linemen take a while to develop, unless they're named Richard Seymour or Kevin Williams. As long as he keeps playing the way he has been, dominating the line of scrimmage and even splitting double teams to collapse the pocket, there's nothing to worry about.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I called him out in my breakdowns for wearing 'property of the center' shirts, but I kept faith and watching him against Indy knew he was finally starting to get it. I also disagree that Seymour's return made the difference, he's just finishing his apprenticeship and should be a bit better in future years.

 

[jczxohn1]

Sorry I started another thread on this. Fred Smerlas, discussing it with BB on WEEI this pm: He's palying further off the ball, 1 1/2 yds, which gives him the vision to see where his double team is coming from and block or beat them. Also, he has time to get his hands up into position, which he wasn't doing. (Fred feels he was much quicker, but he was called for encroachment a lot more.) Compared Vince's play to Bob Golic. BB commented," yea, he's playing a lot better, but we got to get him moved up a bit."

 

[kptmorgan04]

I think that a combination of things have helped... getting into playing shape, coaches and vets whooping his ***** after the first couple games of the year and the defense as a whole coming together later in the year (including sey and tedy being back)

 

[onegameatatime]

Sorry I started another thread on this. Fred Smerlas, discussing it with BB on WEEI this pm: He's palying further off the ball, 1 1/2 yds, which gives him the vision to see where his double team is coming from and block or beat them. Also, he has time to get his hands up into position, which he wasn't doing. (Fred feels he was much quicker, but he was called for encroachment a lot more.) Compared Vince's play to Bob Golic. BB commented," yea, he's playing a lot better, but we got to get him moved up a bit."

I heard this too, but then I watched ther first few possessions from TB again tonight and I did not see him lined farther off than the ends. They were comparing it to the old Dallas Flex where there would be some guys on the line and some noticeably off.

Anyone else notice this off-the-line idea?

 

[Brownfan80]

I heard this too, but then I watched ther first few possessions from TB again tonight and I did not see him lined farther off than the ends. They were comparing it to the old Dallas Flex where there would be some guys on the line and some noticeably off.

Anyone else notice this off-the-line idea?

He didn't seem to be lined up off-the-line to me. He just seemed to be getting better leverage and better leg drive while using his hands better to fight off the blockers. It wasn't his stance that improved, it was his technique. That's the way I've seen it anyway.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I heard this too, but then I watched ther first few possessions from TB again tonight and I did not see him lined farther off than the ends. They were comparing it to the old Dallas Flex where there would be some guys on the line and some noticeably off.

Anyone else notice this off-the-line idea?

Smerlas is right, he is lining up further from the line, roughly 2-3 feet. Ty and Sey also appear to be a bit further back when compared to the 1st half of the season.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I was also one of those that was down on Vince's play earlier in the year. However unlike a lot of you, I see very little appreciable improvement. What I am seeing is Seymour taking on both tackle and guard on his side and Vince shooting between the center and guard on the other side, that allows the ILB to fill empty center-guard gap and make a good play.

I will give Vince credit for staying low and playing with level pads.

 

[maverick4]

re:

I think Vince is definitely playing better, but that it is mostly due to the return of Richard Seymour.

Seymour draws the attention on the line, and Wilfork has been able to make more plays as a result of the diminished attention given to him.

If we lost Seymour for whatever reason, I don't think Wilfork would be significantly different from the beginning of the season.

.

 

[Brady#12]

he was a monster against the Bucs he was everywhere along with the rest of the line

 

[emoney_33]

I think Vince is definitely playing better, but that it is mostly due to the return of Richard Seymour.

Seymour draws the attention on the line, and Wilfork has been able to make more plays as a result of the diminished attention given to him.

If we lost Seymour for whatever reason, I don't think Wilfork would be significantly different from the beginning of the season.

.

well that's the easy answer. But it doesn't explain the fact that he is now taking on double teams and holding his own. It's not like he was triple teamed before Seymour's return.

 

[Brady#12]

yeah but he did play very well the past few games

 

[braveht]

I've heard that an NFL NT takes 2-3 years to develop, A lot more things that can an do happen vs. playing a 3-technique which even Sapp could do.

 

[Brownfan80]

I think Vince is definitely playing better, but that it is mostly due to the return of Richard Seymour.

Seymour draws the attention on the line, and Wilfork has been able to make more plays as a result of the diminished attention given to him.

If we lost Seymour for whatever reason, I don't think Wilfork would be significantly different from the beginning of the season.

.

I paid special attention to Wilfork during the Bucs game and he was routinely occupying two blockers. During Seymour's absense Wilfork was almost always dominated by the Center alone. How has Seymour's return affected Wilfork in a positive way by drawing attention away from him when Wilfork is now being doubled? I think guys need to take another look at the tape. While Seymour was out and Wilfork was playing poorly he was being controlled and dominated by one player. Now that Seymour has returned Wilfork is requiring a doubleteam. This does not suppor the idea that Wilfork is having success by Seymour drawing attention away from him. He is actually requiring greater attention and is no longer getting dominated by one blocker. They may have changed Wilfork's gap responsibility since Seymour's return but I doubt any of us will ever know that. But as far as hat-on-hat attention, Wilfork is getting MORE attention now at this point in the season and still producing at a higher level.

 

[Harrison37]

I, too, was one of the guys who was on Wilfork's case early on, but if he keeps playing the way he did against Buffalo and TB, I'll be thrilled.

 

[Brady#12]

he's abig guy though got he had a good game aginst the Bucs

 

[onegameatatime]

Smerlas is right, he is lining up further from the line, roughly 2-3 feet. Ty and Sey also appear to be a bit further back when compared to the 1st half of the season.

I would never argue with BoR about line play, but they were compariing VW to linemen in the old Dallas flex. In the flex, you could see guys noticeably behind other guys. So the whole line is playing back now?

BB said we have top move him up, but if it works, why mess with it?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I would never argue with BoR about line play, but they were compariing VW to linemen in the old Dallas flex. In the flex, you could see guys noticeably behind other guys. So the whole line is playing back now?

BB said we have top move him up, but if it works, why mess with it?

This is what I posted in jczxohn1's Smerlas thread:

My apologies to Smerlas, Vince is indeed playing further off the line, though 1 1/2 yds may be a stretch. I went back to look at several games and he is now up to 3 ft off the line, vice being right up on the line in the first half.

Presumably he gets extra time to react and get his hands up against the C (whom some of you know is the first lineman to react to the ball ). This also requires the Gs to take an extra step to engage him, which should give him time to engage the C and brace for the next hit coming his way. He still seems vulnerable to a cut block from the C, I'll have to watch for that.

It also appears that Ty and Sey are playing back another foot or so from the earlier games, though they would have been further away from the Ts just from the way they O-line lines up.

I don't think this is as complex as the flex, Vince just put on the backing bells and shifted back a step, Ty and Sey seem to have inched back about a foot so their all pretty much lined up together, where before Vince was squeezed up tight to the ball.