Time to resign Graham?

[stcjones]

Graham is inconsistent in every phase of the game. Sometimes, like the Cleveland game in '03, he'll blow you away with 7 catches for 110 yards. Then you won't here from him for weeks, and he'll drop passes, and look like a stumbling, bumbling uncoordinated lumberjack. Then he'll catch a mean pass in traffic, break a tackle and look like the Mackey award winner we thought we were getting. I say let him go. Someone else will shower him with gold and we can root for him from afar where his inconsistency can't hurt us.

I think that this is the most logical post IMHO...the guy is very inconsistent as a receiver.....good blocker though.....but obviously you want the best combo of BOTH blocking and receiving.....he is very inconsistent when it comes to doing both each week.......one man's opinion...but I don't see us resigning him..

 

[satz]

In the game against denver i think watson blew blocks and led the RB sacked for loss of yds.I hope he improves.Last year graham protected brady .The question is will you want watson on brady`s blind side , knowing that defenders can get through to brady for a sack.

if you all feel that thomas or watson can consistenly protect brady on blitzing defences with some tremendous sudden increase in blocking skills i am sure he can leave.But the key is if this guys can take on DL as i have seen graham take on and succeed.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

IMO Graham is worth Top 5 money. BB places a high value on Te's and feels they are hard to find and are essential to the type of O he wants to run. Other than DL he has used more 'precious' Rd 1 picks on TE's that tells you a lot.

If BB thought Graham was worth Top 5 money he would have been signed before Branch. I think Graham may believe he is worth something approaching top 5 money and has communicated that and that is why in his own words they had not even approached him to talk extension through the beginning of this season.

I do think BB likes Daniel and really values and admires his blocking skills. That said I also think that those very blocking skills are only as valuable as his ability to remain healthy and are therefore limited by his inability to stay on the field. I think even in assessing his value going forward as primarily a blocking TE they wanted to see how well he holds up this season. And I also think they want to see if Watson really emerges or just continues to show flashes of brilliance.

If he can stay healthy for 16 games which would be a first and he makes the routine catches as well as the occasional highlight reel catch and YAC I think they would consider placing the transition (top 10) tag on him ($2.7M this year) to gauge whether there really is interest in Denver or beyond in signing him to a deal that they would not be willing to match. There really isn't another player on the team we could franchise or transition tag because at those positions (OL, CB) the one year compensation is just totally out of line.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I agree with what Mo said on this issue.

Grambo will get offered what he is worth to the Pats, and it will not be 'ground breaking' money. Not a chance in hell he gets offered the most at his position. If he wants the most he can make, it won't be here.

 

[DaBruinz]

OK. So what is top dollar? Here are the top five on this year's franchise tag list:

Tony Gonzales money? $4.8 million a year?

Kellen Winslow money? $3.6 million a year?

Kyle Brady money? $3.1 million a year?

Jeremey Shockey money? $2.7 million a year?

Algae Crumpler money? $2.4 million a year?

Todd Heap money (10th highest paid)? $1.8 million a year?

Keep in mind that top 10 TEs catch 60+ balls a year. Graham's best receiving year was 38 catches.

Winslow hasn't come close to catching 60 balls a year.

 

[DaBruinz]

During the Branch debacle, Graham was quoted in the BGlobe regarding his own contact situation, saying, "I'll give them one shot, and them I'm gone." sniff, sniff, boo hoo. I also question where the offseason trade rumors regarding Graham emerged from. After listening to an interview with the Broncos GM, I was left with the impression that the rumors may have been initiated by Graham and his agent, and not by the Broncos at all. Furthermore, there has been much discussion about how Graham had to be left in to block for Brady over the years because of the O-line troubles, and that was why he didn't catch more passes. Question: If the organization truly believed Graham to be an important and reliable weapon in the passing game, don't you think they would have found a way to integrate him more? I do.

Pony - You'd only be partially correct in this thinking. I will point you to the 2nd Miami game of 2004. The Patriots did intergrate Graham into the passing game more and he did well. However, Brandon Gorin got eaten alive with no help and it resulted in 2 4th quarter turnovers by Brady and cost the Pats the game.

Since then, if there has been a question at the OT position, the Pats have, more often than not, kept Graham in to help the OTs because he's such a dominating blocker.

Bavaro regularly caught 50+ passes. Graham never has come close to that production. Bavaro was being charitable in his description of Graham, because he has a personal relationship with him ever since he was brought in to tutor him after Graham's slow development as a rookie. In fact Bavaro was mystified by Graham's sub-par performance as late as the 2003 postseason. My source for this was Deossie on air, who said he asked his old Giant buddy about Graham's tendency to hot-potato passes in his breadbasket. Bavaro shrugged his shoulders and said nobody could figure it out, because he "catches everything in practice". Based on my own following of Graham's career, the idea that Graham is the best TE since Bavaro is absurd.

I won't pretend that Graham is an all-star pass-catcher. He isn't. But he is a tremendous blocker and he has improved his hands during his time with the Patriots.

Graham is a damn good all-around TE. He should be paid as a starting TE. In the 2-3 million range. If he doesn't like it, well, He'll move on and so will the Pats.

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree that Graham's blocking is the best in the league. However, his rep for dropping passes is not obsolete. He had dropped three balls in (I believe) the Buffalo. All three were right at him and one was for a TD.

I am always concerned that he will not catch the ball.

This would be false. Watson was the one who dropped the TD pass, not Graham.

 

[JoeSixPat]

My, my - apparently a lot has changed in Patriots-land from this summer when my "Patriotism" was all but questioned for suggesting that Graham is not one of the league's top TEs and probably not worth more than $2 mil a year.

For a long time very few appreciated his blocking - but that's now changed to the point where everyone seemingly wants to show their appreciation of the "nuances" of the game to the point of wanting to pay Graham Top 5 money because of his blocking skills

TE do block, yes - but they are also supposed to consistently catch passes.

If blocking were the only criteria we could probably save a good amount of cash by putting a backup Offensive Lineman out there... and as it is, BB has a history of putting in his LBs as a TE in place of Graham in critical offensive goal line situations, with Vrabel grabbing as many TDs as Graham did last year.

I've been over this before of course, but its still a simple issue for me - if Graham will accept a long term deal that's well below the one signed by Jason Whitten then make an offer and attempt to sign him.

He's great blocker yes - and he's also good for about 2 catches a game on average - worth having on the team for $2 mil a year or so, but beyond that, you really have to start asking yourself if he's worth it

 

[patfanken]

I think Daniel Graham is a key player on this offense in both the running and passing games. I think his pass catching is more than adequate, though media thugs like Felger attribute drops to him for every pass that touches his hands.

(for example he called a pass to Graham from Brady a drop against Cinci. It was my recollection that Graham had to DIVE for a catch that would have been a 2 yard completion on a 3rd and 10. Diving for the ball, he did get his hands on it, but if he had caught it, not only would it have been a wonderful catch, it would have meant NOTHING.)

Personally I love what he brings to the table since he is so multi-dementional. He has been called the best pass blocker on the team on several occassions. He is critical in the running game. Plus he is a more than adequate receiver who has enough speed to threaten the deep middle, and enough running ability to run a screen (flash back to Atlanta last season ).

Those are a lot of skills to give up without a fight IMHO. HOWEVER, we still have a lot Quality TE's on the squad, and maybe BB will decide to spend the money in OTHER areas.

BOTTOM LINE: Count me among those who hopes he stays, and I'd be willing to go as high as $2.5MM/yr. In this offense, you cannot have too many quality TE's

 

[Fencer]

Ken, Given the speculation that Graham might prefer to be in Denver, I was hoping that you'd give us your personal views on juggling Bronco-vs.-Patriot allegiances. (For those who don't know -- Ken used to be a Bronco, although many of you weren't born then and the rest of us were much younger at the time.) As for the drop -- I recall Graham dropping what pretty much was a swing pass, although not a pure pivot-and-fire job. Now, Brady is NOT as accurate on swing passes as he used to be. But it did seem like one of those "It hit him in a bad place -- his hands" kind of deals.

 

[tailgater]

The guy was quoting Bavaro, who stated Graham was thwe best at the start of this season. I can find that quote. can you find that gem about one crack at a contract? I doubt it. I've never seen this bit about 'wants to be a bigger part of the offense' either, but the same folks keep bringing it up. Maybe it's true if enough people post it?

During the Branch debacle, Graham was quoted in the BGlobe regarding his own contact situation, saying, "I'll give them one shot, and them I'm gone." sniff, sniff, boo hoo. I also question where the offseason trade rumors regarding Graham emerged from. After listening to an interview with the Broncos GM, I was left with the impression that the rumors may have been initiated by Graham and his agent, and not by the Broncos at all. Furthermore, there has been much discussion about how Graham had to be left in to block for Brady over the years because of the O-line troubles, and that was why he didn't catch more passes. Question: If the organization truly believed Graham to be an important and reliable weapon in the passing game, don't you think they would have found a way to integrate him more? I do. Bavaro regularly caught 50+ passes. Graham never has come close to that production. Bavaro was being charitable in his description of Graham, because he has a personal relationship with him ever since he was brought in to tutor him after Graham's slow development as a rookie. In fact Bavaro was mystified by Graham's sub-par performance as late as the 2003 postseason. My source for this was Deossie on air, who said he asked his old Giant buddy about Graham's tendency to hot-potato passes in his breadbasket. Bavaro shrugged his shoulders and said nobody could figure it out, because he "catches everything in practice". Based on my own following of Graham's career, the idea that Graham is the best TE since Bavaro is absurd.

 

[PonyExpress]

The guy was quoting Bavaro, who stated Graham was thwe best at the start of this season. I can find that quote. can you find that gem about one crack at a contract? I doubt it. I've never seen this bit about 'wants to be a bigger part of the offense' either, but the same folks keep bringing it up. Maybe it's true if enough people post it?

Try the Boston Globe archives...

 

[tailgater]

Graham is not the best blocking TE in the league. There are TEs who are pure blockers and have no pretense of being offensive weapons who are superior to Graham at blocking.

Who are these mystery "superior blockering TE's"? I can't say I watch all the games, but I don't recall seeing so many important, bigtime biocks that Graham is part of, time after time. He catchs the tough ones, and drops some easy ones. Better that than the reverse, no? Is he top 5? Overall, yeah, IMO he is. A Randy McMichael type would never fit this team or this scheme, nor would many of the 'top ten'.

I'll take Graham over Watson to date. He shows up every game. Watson? Half the time it doesn't seem like he knows where he is or where he's supposed to be. After three years, thats unacceptable. I'm getting tired of that 'who, me?" look he gives Brady when he's out of position yet again.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It's tough to find anything in the Globe once it's archived but even PFW's Andy Hart referred to the Graham's recent quotes in the Globe in a recent mailbag as indicating he sounds like someone who intends to test the market in FA. The one shot at an offer quote was pretty pointed and widely reported and was given around the time the Deion situation was coming to a head. He has also commented on several occasions in the recent past that there had been no contract talks between his side and the Patriots. And recent comments by the Broncos GM would seem to indicate that while there has been no direct contact with a player under contract, he is aware that Graham has numerous contacts in the Denver area whom he surmises he may have been talking. And he did indicate that of course they would take a look at the player if he were to become a FA. So that little Denver undercurrent is not entirely baseless, just not tampering.

 

[PonyExpress]

The quote is from a "Sunday notes" article by Borges on Sept 3, 2006 when the Branch hooplah was at its height. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2006/09/03/long_shot_hits_the_jackpot/?page=full

The Slithery One's exact words are, "Daniel Graham... is set to become a free agent next season and has already told friends, 'They got one chance to bid on me. Then I'm gone.'"

As far as Graham's blocking... i believe in late 2003 and 2004 Graham was among the best in the NFL. SB 38 and 39 are testament to his skills in this department and he was praised highly by Dr Z among others for his remarkable work. Bavaro's quote actually refers to Graham's Monday night performance against KC in 2004. Graham's problem, however, has always been consistency and durability, the hallmark of a special player, which he is not. I believe due to injury he was average as a blocker in 2005. I can back up this opinion by referring to the widely ridiculed statistical studies of KC Joyner, whose work I happen to admire. So far in 2006, Graham has had trouble locking horns with athletic LBers. Graham as a blocker struggled with London Fletcher against Buffalo; had success against the mediocre LBer corps of the Jets; a so-so performance against Denver's top notch LBer corps; and a very good performance against Cincinnati, with an injury riddled LBer corps. Traditionally, great running games pick up effectiveness after week 6 as the O-line begins to mesh. I look forward to Graham being a big part of it. As far as comparisons with other TE blockers in the league... Jerame Tuman, Jim Kleinsasser, Kyle Brady, Heath Miller, John Gilmore, Robert Royal are comparable or superior blockers IMO.