This is Brady's legacy year

[solman]

I think Manning has better stats because he is a better passer, maybe the best passer of all time. Brady is not as good as Manning at throwing the ball and won't be able to put up the same kind of stats (Manning has 8 straight years of over 4000 yards).

This is what I am talking about. I believe that Brady is also a better passer. I think it is amazing what he has accomplished with the tools that he has had. You, and most of the football world, disagree.

The only way that you (and the rest of the football world) is ever going to become convinced of that is if Tom Brady has terrific numbers (40+TDs, 4000+Yds, 100+PR) THIS season.

 

[Nordberg]

I was listening to PFW in Progress awhile ago....Tom Casali and Andy Hart were talking about how mind boggling it is to watch Manning, Harrison, and Wayne practice before the game. (I guess they are on the field in pre game warm ups) PFW guys said none of them spoke a word the whole time....just ran routes (timing routes) Manning would just throw a bullet somewhere on the field....way before Harrison or Wayne had even finished there routes. Hart and Casali said most of the passes looked like they were going to hit turf....only to be caught every time.

Think about it.....these three have been playing together in the same offense for what.......going on 8 years or something? That passing game makes everything go in Indy. It's like a watch. That's also why I think the Addia is better than Maroney thing is a bunch of crap. Defenses have all they can do to just slow down that passing attack

Brady finally has some potentially great wideouts this year. I believe he will have his best season to date. But, he will never look like the passer Manning is because he isn't fortunate enough to share the same brain with his receivers

 

[captain stone]

Think about it.....these three have been playing together in the same offense for what.......going on 8 years or something? That passing game makes everything go in Indy. It's like a watch.
But, he will never look like the passer Manning is because he isn't fortunate enough to share the same brain with his receivers

9 years with Harrison, 7 with Wayne. That's why it's crucial that Troy Brown return, and why Meion should have been made to sit his 10 weeks, then return after Thanksgiving. Who knows, maybe Brady and Skippy would have completed that 3rd and 4, and payaton would have been left shrugging his shoulders, again.

And don't get me thinking about patriot WR brain jokes...

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

The premise of this thread is preposterous.

By definition, a legacy can only be assumed after the fact. In this case, after Brady's career is over.

You're only playing the expectation game by invoking the specter of a "legacy year", let alone assuring Brady of his earned legacy as you or some other "analyst" perceives it.

The way this entire organization is built, legacies are the by-product, not the aim, or the purpose, of the team's efforts. Brady could have a good year, or a great year, or a mediocre year. However it happens, it will be due to the exigencies of each individual game, culminating in the season in tote.

Whether Brady or Manning is the better mechanical passer ignores the greater point of the game - it's a team game with a team orientation, sparked by 11 individual efforts seeking to assure that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.

Who's better - Brady or Manning? Bart Starr or Johnny Unitas? Joe Montana or John Elway?

While these are interesting points to discuss and debate over a few beers with the guys, they do little, if anything, to shed light upon the issue of "legacy". Only history can bestow that, and I think it's pretty obvious that history will accept Tom Brady's legacy just as it is, thank you.

(But the real point of the post once again demonstrates, as if we needed it, that it's going to be a loooooong off season, and we are right now only beginning to enter it's doldrums.)

 

[cstjohn17]

This is what I am talking about. I believe that Brady is also a better passer. I think it is amazing what he has accomplished with the tools that he has had. You, and most of the football world, disagree.

The only way that you (and the rest of the football world) is ever going to become convinced of that is if Tom Brady has terrific numbers (40+TDs, 4000+Yds, 100+PR) THIS season.

I guess I have to qualify this by saying that I am a Brady and a Patriot fan but...

Manning is a better passer than Brady, not necessarily a better QB but a better passer. He has a stronger arm, quicker release, is more accurate and has better overall mechanics. Manning has had the best statistical start of any QB in the history of the NFL. When he is done Marino won't hold any records.

Pretty impressive but I would still take Brady because he is a winner and lifts the overall level of his teammates. Brady is one of my top 2-3 atheletes ever. I also think we are the ones chasing the Colts, we haven't beat them since 2004. I can't wait until we crush them like bugs this year.

Brady - http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5228/career;_ylt=AiVRH0TZ__LlSY2a.MPDh4T.uLYF

Averages since 2002
3743 yards 25.8 TDs 13.2 INTs

Manning - http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4256/career;_ylt=AiVRH0TZ__LlSY2a.MPDh4T.uLYF
Averages since 2002
4233.6 Yards 32.8 TDs 11.6 INTs

 

[ivanvamp]

I guess I have to qualify this by saying that I am a Brady and a Patriot fan but...

Manning is a better passer than Brady, not necessarily a better QB but a better passer. He has a stronger arm, quicker release, is more accurate and has better overall mechanics. Manning has had the best statistical start of any QB in the history of the NFL. When he is done Marino won't hold any records.

Pretty impressive but I would still take Brady because he is a winner and lifts the overall level of his teammates. Brady is one of my top 2-3 atheletes ever. I also think we are the ones chasing the Colts, we haven't beat them since 2004. I can't wait until we crush them like bugs this year.

Brady - http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5228/career;_ylt=AiVRH0TZ__LlSY2a.MPDh4T.uLYF

Averages since 2002
3743 yards 25.8 TDs 13.2 INTs

Manning - http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4256/career;_ylt=AiVRH0TZ__LlSY2a.MPDh4T.uLYF
Averages since 2002
4233.6 Yards 32.8 TDs 11.6 INTs

I agree with all this (hard to disagree with statistical data), but the question is this: Why are Manning's stats better than Brady's? If you put Manning in Foxboro with Givens, Branch, Brown, Caldwell, Gafney, etc, as his receivers, and put Brady in the dome with an all-time legend (Harrison), and an all-pro (Wayne) as well as one of the best pass-catching TE in the game (Clark), what would their respective stats be? Would they be reversed? The same? How much of Manning's statistical edge over Brady's is due to him being a better passer, and how much is due to having much better pass weapons?

I don't know the answers to these questions. Here's what I *think*. I think Manning is a better passing QB than Brady is, albeit slightly. But he also has had the benefit of having much better receivers. So each has to come into play. I'd take Manning as my QB any day, but I'm very glad we have Brady. Being a Pats fan, of course I would take Brady over Manning. They're very close, but there's no shame in saying (if it's true) that Manning is a better passer while Brady is a bigger winner.

John

 

[the taildragger]

there are stat people and football people.

football people understand that Manning is a great QB, but they do not widely believe that manning is better than brady. They understand that there are things a QB does to win games that isn't measured strictly by YPA. Most football folks tend to view PM as slightly overrated.

Now stats matter.

no football person will argue that stats are irrelevant....just that they are NOT the beginning and end of the conversation.

If you are picking stocks you don't just look at technicals; you look at the whole picture of a company...."the fundamentals."

brady's stats -- given the circumstances/system/talent around him -- have been nothing short of amazing.

Manning's stats -- his system and offense aside -- have been just as amazing.....

but let's talk about manning's legacy....it's impressive....but let's not pretend a QB on a team as consistently good as the Colts is allowed to have one ring in 10 years and still trump Twelve.

As impressive as Manning and the Colts' statistical legacy is, only a stats-obsessed fan would rate those stats above the level of a QB who has proven not just to guide his team to multiple rings, but to ELEVATE his team to a dynasty, in an era when the league is designed specifically to destroy the concept of the dynasty.

If you have to focus purely on stats, look at the most important offensive stats: POINTS SCORED, or points per drive if you want to be uber-geeky.

Believe it or not, QBs are on a mission to score points and get their teams in the end zone....no matter how it happens....they're not in fact out to accumulate passing yards or passing TDs. This tends to get lost within our collective fantasy mentalities.

So ask yourself this, if the goal of QB'ing isn't to rack up yards, why do we compare them that way? And even if it were, would we not adjust our statistical comparison to account for obvious differentiating factors like, say, the fact that playing with a bunch of high talent, highly drafted players on offense tends to help a QB's numbers??

If the Pats stay relatively healthy, with Tom and these receivers, and a solid ground game and protection, this offense has a chance to be truly historic...

and if they're THAT good....they won't be airing it out for four quarters....they'll be kicking too much ass to be racking up a ton of passing yards....it's just way too simplistic to draw any conclusions about tom's legacy from the number of yards he throws for.

In 2007, it's about one thing.....dealing with unprecedented expectations (in the parity era) and achieving a fourth ring.

They've always been ok being the underdog....now it's about dealing with the pressure to be perfect....mistakes will not be tolerated....losses will not be tolerated....this kind of pressure can take a toll on control freaks like Tom, et al.....it's a nice problem to have, but let's keep it in perspective.....

and it's easier said than done, but as fans, it's important to not get carried away.....the best thing we can do is just keep it real....threads about hotels in Phoenix probably don't help....

Can we just start playing the games already!!!!

 

[gomezcat]

I find it impossible to separate Brady and Manning. Of course Tom has won more SBs. However, I think it is worth remembering that those wins are as much down to better coaching and better play by the whole team, not just the Offense. Both are deserved first ballot HOF guys.