The reason why Marquise Hill is still on this team

[pats1]

I am sorry. This statement is patently false.

The two games that Hill was given action before the game was decided, he was pulle prior to the end of the same series.

Correct.

Neither time was he in to give a guy a brief rest, either. In the Jet game, Warren was inactive and Seymour could only play a half.

Incorrect.

Hill came in to give Seymour a rest. Seymour came back in. Wright gave Seymour another rest. Seymour came back in for a significant amount of time. Wright gave Seymour another rest. Seymour finished the game.

In reality, Seymour played all of the Jets game, save a few stretches of plays.

Amazingly enough, the guy that you say only gets on the field due to playing a different position, Wright, came in immediately and replaced Hill at his positon.

Incorrect.

Seymour came in immediately after Hill.

Seymour again came in when Wright had a bad stretch of 3 plays.

Doesn't that reflect even worse on Hill? A guy who doesn't even play the same position had to come in because Hill was playing so poorly?

If it reflects poorly on Hill, then it does on Wright too.

 

[pats1]

New York Jets vs New England Patriots at Gillette Stadium

2nd Quarter

New York Jets at 14:56, (1st play from scrimmage 14:47)
1-10-NYJ 39 (14:47) 10-C.Pennington pass deep middle intended for 87-L.Coles INTERCEPTED by 25-A.Hawkins at NE 44. 25-A.Hawkins to NE 44 for no gain (87-L.Coles).

-----Hill drives the RG back, the closest Patriot to Pennington on the throw.

New York Jets at 13:55
1-10-NYJ 19 (13:55) 32-K.Barlow right guard to NYJ 22 for 3 yards (54-T.Bruschi, 55-J.Seau).

-----Hill is turned outside by the RG.

2-7-NYJ 22 (13:27) 32-K.Barlow right end to NYJ 25 for 3 yards (55-J.Seau).

-----Hill penetrates into the backfield on a quick snap, but the pitch goes to the outside, away from Hill.

3-4-NYJ 25 (12:45) (Shotgun) 10-C.Pennington pass short left to 87-L.Coles to NYJ 31 for 6 yards (27-E.Hobbs) [59-R.Colvin].

-----Banta-Cain comes in for Hill as a pass rusher.

1-10-NYJ 31 (12:06) (No Huddle) 10-C.Pennington pass short left to 29-L.Washington to NYJ 32 for 1 yard (55-J.Seau).
PENALTY on NE-91-M.Hill, Encroachment, 5 yards, enforced at NYJ 31 - No Play.

-----Colvin, right next to Hill, lunges forward, followed up by Hill starting the engine.

1-5-NYJ 36 (11:38) 32-K.Barlow up the middle to NYJ 39 for 3 yards (55-J.Seau, 54-T.Bruschi).

-----Seymour returns to the game.

2-2-NYJ 39 (10:57) (No Huddle) 10-C.Pennington pass short right to 29-L.Washington to NYJ 38 for -1 yards (27-E.Hobbs, 93-R.Seymour).

-----Seymour still in the game.

3-3-NYJ 38 (10:12) (Shotgun) 10-C.Pennington pass short middle to 89-J.Cotchery to NE 45 for 17 yards (30-C.Scott, 50-M.Vrabel).

-----Seymour still in the game.

1-10-NE 45 (9:26) (No Huddle) 10-C.Pennington pass short left to 87-L.Coles to NE 41 for 4 yards (22-A.Samuel).

-----Wright comes into the game.

2-6-NE 41 (8:54) (No Huddle) 32-K.Barlow up the middle to NE 32 for 9 yards (59-R.Colvin).

-----Wright still in the game, and gets manhandled (and held) by the TE.

1-10-NE 32 (8:24) (No Huddle) 32-K.Barlow up the middle to NE 28 for 4 yards (75-V.Wilfork, 99-M.Wright).

-----Wright still in the game, gets thrown off the line by the RG but recovers to help on the stop.

2-6-NE 28 (7:47) (No Huddle) 10-C.Pennington pass incomplete short middle to 17-T.Dwight.

-----Wright stil in the game, gets pancaked outside by the RG.

3-6-NE 28 (7:42) (No Huddle) 10-C.Pennington pass short middle to 17-T.Dwight to NE 23 for 5 yards (25-A.Hawkins, 36-J.Sanders). measurement

-----Seymour back in the game.

4-1-NE 23 (7:07) 10-C.Pennington up the middle to NE 20 for 3 yards (54-T.Bruschi).

-----Seymour still in the game.

1-10-NE 20 (6:30) (No Huddle) 32-K.Barlow right guard to NE 9 for 11 yards (97-J.Green).

-----Seymour still in the game.

1-9-NE 9 (5:58) (No Huddle) 32-K.Barlow right guard to NE 7 for 2 yards (55-J.Seau, 54-T.Bruschi).

-----Seymour still in the game.

2-7-NE 7 (5:20) 32-K.Barlow up the middle to NE 2 for 5 yards (59-R.Colvin, 25-A.Hawkins).

-----Seymour still in the game.

3-2-NE 2 (4:47) 32-K.Barlow up the middle for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

-----Seymour still in the game, and gets knocked around by the RG to open the TD hole.

3rd Quarter

New York Jets at 15:00, (1st play from scrimmage 14:52)
1-10-NE 38 (14:52) 10-C.Pennington pass short right to 29-L.Washington to NE 36 for 2 yards (55-J.Seau).

-----Seymour still in the game.

2-8-NE 36 (14:31) (No Huddle) 29-L.Washington left guard to NE 34 for 2 yards (75-V.Wilfork, 54-T.Bruschi).

-----Seymour still in the game.

3-6-NE 34 (13:50) 10-C.Pennington scrambles up the middle to NE 33 for 1 yard (97-J.Green, 54-T.Bruschi).

-----Seymour still in the game.

4-5-NE 33 (13:05) (Shotgun) 10-C.Pennington punts 29 yards to NE 4, Center-74-N.Mangold, downed by NYJ.

----Seymour still in the game.

New York Jets at 8:26
1-10-NYJ 40 (8:26) 10-C.Pennington pass incomplete deep right to 87-L.Coles.

-----Seymour still in the game.

2-10-NYJ 40 (8:20) 10-C.Pennington pass short right to 81-J.McCareins pushed ob at NYJ 45 for 5 yards (30-C.Scott).

-----Seymour still in the game.

3-5-NYJ 45 (7:49) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 10-C.Pennington pass short middle to 89-J.Cotchery to 50 for 5 yards (22-A.Samuel).

-----Seymour still in the game.

1-10-50 (7:06) (No Huddle) 29-L.Washington up the middle to NE 42 for 8 yards (55-J.Seau, 54-T.Bruschi).

-----Seymour still in the game.

2-2-NE 42 (6:27) (No Huddle) 10-C.Pennington pass incomplete deep middle to 87-L.Coles (27-E.Hobbs).

-----Seymour still in the game.

3-2-NE 42 (6:20) 10-C.Pennington pass short middle to 89-J.Cotchery to NE 33 for 9 yards (55-J.Seau) [59-R.Colvin].

-----Seymour still in the game.

1-10-NE 33 (5:53) (No Huddle) 29-L.Washington up the middle to NE 27 for 6 yards (30-C.Scott, 93-R.Seymour).

-----Seymour still in the game.

2-4-NE 27 (5:12) 10-C.Pennington pass short middle to 35-B.Askew to NE 20 for 7 yards (59-R.Colvin, 55-J.Seau).

-----Wright comes back in, can't get past the RT.

1-10-NE 20 (4:42) (No Huddle) 29-L.Washington left end to NE 15 for 5 yards (54-T.Bruschi, 25-A.Hawkins).

-----Wright still in, is on the backside.

2-5-NE 15 (4:10) 29-L.Washington left guard to NE 12 for 3 yards (54-T.Bruschi, 55-J.Seau).

-----Wright still in, held off backside by the RT.

3-2-NE 12 (3:30) (No Huddle) 10-C.Pennington pass short left to 87-L.Coles ran ob at NE 6 for 6 yards. NYJ-74-N.Mangold was injured during the play.

-----Wright still in, rushes backside.

1-6-NE 6 (3:22) 32-K.Barlow up the middle to NE 3 for 3 yards (99-M.Wright, 54-T.Bruschi).

-----Wright still in, holds ground against RG.

2-3-NE 3 (2:42) (No Huddle) 32-K.Barlow up the middle to NE 1 for 2 yards.
PENALTY on NYJ-65-B.Moore, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at NE 3 - No Play.

-----Wright still in.

2-8-NE 8 (2:25) 10-C.Pennington sacked at NE 15 for -7 yards (59-R.Colvin).

-----Wright still in, stood up by RG.

3-15-NE 15 (1:55) (No Huddle) 10-C.Pennington pass incomplete short right to 87-L.Coles.

-----Only Wilfork and Green in.

3rd Quarter

New York Jets at 11:38
1-10-NYJ 20 (11:38) 10-C.Pennington pass short right to 32-K.Barlow to NYJ 27 for 7 yards (55-J.Seau, 30-C.Scott).

-----Wright still in, kept outside by RT.

2-3-NYJ 27 (11:08) (No Huddle) 32-K.Barlow right guard to NYJ 31 for 4 yards (99-M.Wright, 54-T.Bruschi).

-----Wright in, doubled by RG and RT.

1-10-NYJ 31 (10:30) 10-C.Pennington pass short left to 87-L.Coles ran ob at NYJ 37 for 6 yards.

-----Wright still in, quick pass.

2-4-NYJ 37 (10:07) (No Huddle) 10-C.Pennington pass short right to 89-J.Cotchery to NYJ 48 for 11 yards (30-C.Scott).

-----Wright still in, stonewalled by RT.

1-10-NYJ 48 (9:37) (No Huddle) 32-K.Barlow up the middle to NE 49 for 3 yards (75-V.Wilfork, 54-T.Bruschi).

-----Wright still in, sealed by RT.

2-7-NE 49 (8:55) 10-C.Pennington pass incomplete short left to 89-J.Cotchery.

-----Wright still in, stood up by RG.

3-7-NE 49 (8:51) 10-C.Pennington pass short middle to 81-J.McCareins to NE 46 for 3 yards (36-J.Sanders).

-----Seymour comes back in.

New York Jets at 6:47
1-10-NE 35 (6:47) 32-K.Barlow up the middle to NE 30 for 5 yards (59-R.Colvin, 25-A.Hawkins).

-----Seymour still in.

2-5-NE 30 (6:06) (No Huddle) 32-K.Barlow left tackle pushed ob at NE 24 for 6 yards (22-A.Samuel).

-----Seymour still in.

1-10-NE 24 (5:37) 10-C.Pennington pass short left to 35-B.Askew to NE 22 for 2 yards (59-R.Colvin).

-----Seymour still in.

2-8-NE 22 (4:51) (No Huddle) 10-C.Pennington pass deep right to 89-J.Cotchery for 22 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

-----Seymour still in.

New York Jets at 4:14, (1st play from scrimmage 4:09)
1-10-NYJ 26 (4:09) 10-C.Pennington pass short left to 17-T.Dwight pushed ob at NYJ 35 for 9 yards (25-A.Hawkins).

-----Seymour still in.

2-1-NYJ 35 (4:01) (No Huddle) 29-L.Washington right guard to NYJ 38 for 3 yards (54-T.Bruschi).

-----Seymour still in.

1-10-NYJ 38 (3:23) 10-C.Pennington pass incomplete short left to 86-C.Baker (54-T.Bruschi).

-----Seymour still in.

2-10-NYJ 38 (3:20) 32-K.Barlow up the middle to 50 for 12 yards (55-J.Seau, 54-T.Bruschi).

-----Seymour still in.

1-10-50 (2:37) 29-L.Washington up the middle to NE 46 for 4 yards (55-J.Seau, 54-T.Bruschi).
Timeout #1 by NE at 02:30.

-----Seymour still in.

2-6-NE 46 (2:30) 10-C.Pennington pass short left to 89-J.Cotchery to NE 40 for 6 yards (22-A.Samuel).
Timeout #2 by NE at 02:18.

-----Seymour still in.

1-10-NE 40 (2:18) 32-K.Barlow up the middle to NE 42 for -2 yards (54-T.Bruschi).
Timeout #3 by NE at 02:13.

-----Seymour still in.

2-12-NE 42 (2:13) 29-L.Washington left end to NE 42 for no gain (55-J.Seau, 59-R.Colvin).
Two-Minute Warning

-----Seymour still in.

3-12-NE 42 (2:00) 32-K.Barlow up the middle to NE 40 for 2 yards (97-J.Green, 30-C.Scott).

-----Seymour still in.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

This thread is a classic example of obsessive man-love for a player despite his non-performance. Only the Chad Jackson cult threads come close.

 

[PatsSteve1]

This thread is a classic example of obsessive man-love for a player despite his non-performance. Only the Chad Jackson cult threads come close.

* At least Chad has made a couple of plays in real games -

 

[spacecrime]

He was active for 8 games in 2005, so he hasn't been inactive all the time. The telling stat is that he was only active for 4 in 2006. He is clearly moving in the wrong direction.

C'mon space, I would have expected you to be smarter than to say that.

Okay, let me rephrase. Hill was active in 8 games in 2005. He was only active for 4 in 2006. He is clearly moving in the right direction.

.....

Nope, I think my way makes more sense. For whatever reason, Hill was active fewer games and that is NOT moving in the right direction.

Lekevin Smith was active for 3 games, for crying out loud. Mike Wright was active for ALL 16 games, playing a good number of snaps at DE, and doing a fine ST job.

The patriots roster has 5 DEs:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/rosters/NE

Somehow Mike Wright the undrafted has ousted Marquise Hill the busted as our fourth DE. Say bye-bye, Marquise.

And tell you what, if Seymour and Warren are both out, I do not want to see Hill on the field. I want to see Jarvis Green on one side of Wilfork and Mike Wright on the other side. Anyone, ANYONE, who would rather see Hill in place of either Green or Wright has a screw loose. Given that Hill was a second round pick, I think after three years it is safe to call him a bust.

 

[spacecrime]

This thread is a classic example of obsessive man-love for a player despite his non-performance. Only the Chad Jackson cult threads come close.

Mmmmmmm. Chaaaaaaaaad. DOH!

 

[pats1]

Okay, let me rephrase. Hill was active in 8 games in 2005. He was only active for 4 in 2006. He is clearly moving in the right direction.

Just because a statement is wrong doesn't mean its opposite is right.

Nope, I think my way makes more sense. For whatever reason, Hill was active fewer games and that is NOT moving in the right direction.

He was active for less games because Seymour was active for more.

Was Seymour moving in the wrong direction performance-wise in 2005 when he was active for less games than in 2004?!?

Lekevin Smith was active for 3 games, for crying out loud.

Because Vince Wilfork was inactive for 3 games. C'mon spacecrime, are you intentionally being this difficult?

Mike Wright was active for ALL 16 games, playing a good number of snaps at DE, and doing a fine ST job.

The patriots roster has 5 DEs:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/rosters/NE

Somehow Mike Wright the undrafted has ousted Marquise Hill the busted as our fourth DE. Say bye-bye, Marquise.

Then who is the 2nd NT? Wright can't occupy two roster spots at the same time.

The NFL.com roster can list whatever you want. Don't fool yourself into thinking that is anything even coming close to "official." They update that about as frequently as NEM has posted in the Pats forum this week.

And tell you what, if Seymour and Warren are both out, I do not want to see Hill on the field. I want to see Jarvis Green on one side of Wilfork and Mike Wright on the other side. Anyone, ANYONE, who would rather see Hill in place of either Green or Wright has a screw loose. Given that Hill was a second round pick, I think after three years it is safe to call him a bust.

And I agree with you.

But were you singing this tune early in 2005? Wright, since then, has only had to battle with Dan Klecko (!) and Le Kevin Smith for playing time. He's been active, and AS A FUNCTION OF THAT has been able to contribute on special teams, get a few reps at DE, and catch the eyes of some Pats Fans.

It doesn't matter where Hill was selected in this sense. He could be the #1 overall pick or the #255 overall pick and still be stuck in the same position because of Seymour and Warren.

 

[mr3putt]

Just because a statement is wrong doesn't mean its opposite is right.



He was active for less games because Seymour was active for more.

Was Seymour moving in the wrong direction performance-wise in 2005 when he was active for less games than in 2004?!?



Because Vince Wilfork was inactive for 3 games. C'mon spacecrime, are you intentionally being this difficult?



Then who is the 2nd NT? Wright can't occupy two roster spots at the same time.

The NFL.com roster can list whatever you want. Don't fool yourself into thinking that is anything even coming close to "official." They update that about as frequently as NEM has posted in the Pats forum this week.



And I agree with you.

But were you singing this tune early in 2005? Wright, since then, has only had to battle with Dan Klecko (!) and Le Kevin Smith for playing time. He's been active, and AS A FUNCTION OF THAT has been able to contribute on special teams, get a few reps at DE, and catch the eyes of some Pats Fans.

It doesn't matter where Hill was selected in this sense. He could be the #1 overall pick or the #255 overall pick and still be stuck in the same position because of Seymour and Warren.

You are blind.

Fortunately BB is not.

If you are so hot on this stiff... Peddle his ass to the New York J...E...T..S...


Jets Jets Jets

 

[pats1]

You are blind.

Fortunately BB is not.

Right, that's why Marquise Hill was cut and never came back 3 years ago.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Pats 1
I respect you and agree with most of what you say, but considering where I thought this kid was going as a rook...he has been a dissapointment. By now, I thought he would have been the best DL off the bench, and the only reason he wouldn't be starting was who he was backing up....he hasn't lived up to that. And thats what I think the animosity here is about. There was a thought when he was drafted, that we stole him, and it hasn't turned out that way...

For you CJ fans, I hope for your sake he turns out better. But his rookie season was also a similar dissapointment considering he too was supposed to be a steal.

 

[pats1]

Pats 1
I respect you and agree with most of what you say, but considering where I thought this kid was going as a rook...he has been a dissapointment. By now, I thought he would have been the best DL off the bench, and the only reason he wouldn't be starting was who he was backing up....he hasn't lived up to that.

For that to happen, he'd have to be a pass-rushing specialist and thus beat out Jarvis Green.

Marquise Hill isn't a pass-rusher. He is much more of a run-stopping DE.

It just isn't as simple as "a DL off the bench."

And there is only 1 DE off the bench in any given game.

And thats what I think the animosity here is about. There was a thought when he was drafted, that we stole him, and it hasn't turned out that way...

It hasn't worked out that way because the Pats decided to draft the best player available, not where they really needed the player. Take Warren and Seymour away and Hill might have been able to live up to his pick status.

For you CJ fans, I hope for your sake he turns out better. But his rookie season was also a similar dissapointment considering he too was supposed to be a steal.

His problems stemmed from multiple injuries, which slipped him down the depth chart not to be seen again.

I just don't understand why so many people on here want rookies or even second-year players to step in and take established starters' jobs, and perform well at their positions. Maybe it's because there's so much false hype surrounding NCAA football these days, nevermind the coverage the combine and draft get.