The Reason Tom Brady is not a System Quarterback

[RelocatedPatFan]

I think AR would be do well in the E-P offense but I do wonder how we would perform as a young player under BB and Weis. Those two coached Tom hard and thats what Tom wanted. Not sure how AR would handle that kind of minute-by-minute pressure.

It would have been interesting to see how he would response. Because BB probably wouln't have been happy with a Farve type QB and might have preferred AR - probably starting by his 2nd year like TB or perhaps 3rd year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It would have been interesting to see how he would response. Because BB probably wouln't have been happy with a Farve type QB and might have preferred AR - probably starting by his 2nd year like TB or perhaps 3rd year.

Agree. If Favre was making bad decisions and the team was losing he wouldn't hesitate putting AR in.

 

[luuked]

Fast decision making, fast release, accuracy and footwork make him the perfect West Coast Offense QB.

Its not like they are running the Wishbone or the Wildcat

The way he is processing the game he is a much better Erhardt-Perkins fit than for a WC offense. Hell he might be too conservative for true west coast style. Now you say he might adjust to that by being less conservative where I say this might just push up his INT numbers and push down his accuracy.

But whatever.. it is all just theoretical anyway with no way to prove anything. What is real is that he is in the ideal place to be QB and gets enabled to be the GOAT by coaches and players around him.

 

[luuked]

I think AR would be do well in the E-P offense but I do wonder how we would perform as a young player under BB and Weis. Those two coached Tom hard and thats what Tom wanted. Not sure how AR would handle that kind of minute-by-minute pressure.

See I am not sure how valuable AR would be if you put a similarly rigid system around him as Brady has. The thing that AR has over practically most other peers is his ability to be precise on his feet and when things break down. Obviously he would still be a top QB in the league but the gap between him and the average player might be smaller if you shackle him down than when he gets to improvise. That improvisation puts a huge burden on the defense to keep up coverage way longer and makes things considerably more difficult to defend. As long as the accuracy of the QB in those conditions is high enough. Otherwise it just turns into turnover roulette.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The way he is processing the game he is a much better Erhardt-Perkins fit than for a WC offense. Hell he might be too conservative for true west coast style. Now you say he might adjust to that by being less conservative where I say this might just push up his INT numbers and push down his accuracy.

But whatever.. it is all just theoretical anyway with no way to prove anything. What is real is that he is in the ideal place to be QB and gets enabled to be the GOAT by coaches and players around him.

By design, the WC offense is a "conservative" offense.

The Air Coryell offense is not.

 

[RobertWeathers]

See I am not sure how valuable AR would be if you put a similarly rigid system around him as Brady has. The thing that AR has over practically most other peers is his ability to be precise on his feet and when things break down. Obviously he would still be a top QB in the league but the gap between him and the average player might be smaller if you shackle him down than when he gets to improvise. That improvisation puts a huge burden on the defense to keep up coverage way longer and makes things considerably more difficult to defend. As long as the accuracy of the QB in those conditions is high enough. Otherwise it just turns into turnover roulette.

GB runs a West Coast offense but your point about AR's ability to extend plays I agree with.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady is the system.

 

[RedSleevesPinkStripes]

I've always looked at it as a cheap way to discredit TB without really saying anything of merit.

Similar to the "perfect storm" argument of BB and TB coming together and everything just working out great, as if the countless hours of preparation, study and hard work weren't major contributing factors.

People love to see Rodgers running around, making people miss and throwing a dime to the back corner.. I think we can all agree its fun to watch, and he's an amazing QB - but is that what you really want in a QB?

I want the guy who can breakdown the defense before the play even starts and can execute in tight windows, and not have to rely on his athleticism to bail him out (that sh*t only flies for so long and can only be SO successful). I swear AR looks to run before he even checks his first read. He loves playing the hero (like Big Ben) and you can see it in his play.

To me, Brady's style gives you the best chance for success, rather than hoping your QB can avoid getting killed and pull a miracle out of his ass.

Rodgers is obviously more athletic, but Brady has been, and always will be the better Quarterback.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Brady is the system.

Ha

I see the "system" as a note sheet, a Fender guitar, a microphone and a couple of speakers.

Brady is Jimi Hendrix.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think the "system" argument is overrated. If a QB has a strong arm, can make quick, intelligent decisions, is accurate, had good footwork and can lead men he can play anywhere in any system.

I think AR would be do well in the E-P offense but I do wonder how we would perform as a young player under BB and Weis. Those two coached Tom hard and thats what Tom wanted. Not sure how AR would handle that kind of minute-by-minute pressure.

AR is not the kind of QB who would do well in the system that emphasizes the short passing game. He succeeds in throwing the ball downfield a lot due to his accuracy and arm strength. Frankly, I think he would be bored in NE’s system.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I've always looked at it as a cheap way to discredit TB without really saying anything of merit.

Similar to the "perfect storm" argument of BB and TB coming together and everything just working out great, as if the countless hours of preparation, study and hard work weren't major contributing factors.

People love to see Rodgers running around, making people miss and throwing a dime to the back corner.. I think we can all agree its fun to watch, and he's an amazing QB - but is that what you really want in a QB?

I want the guy who can breakdown the defense before the play even starts and can execute in tight windows, and not have to rely on his athleticism to bail him out (that sh*t only flies for so long and can only be SO successful). I swear AR looks to run before he even checks his first read. He loves playing the hero (like Big Ben) and you can see it in his play.

To me, Brady's style gives you the best chance for success, rather than hoping your QB can avoid getting killed and pull a miracle out of his ass.

Rodgers is obviously more athletic, but Brady has been, and always will be the better Quarterback.

Exactly but you could have stopped right after you pointed out that calling him a system quarterback is just a way to try and discredit him. What separates Brady from everyone else is his heart, his dedication, his passion and his obsession to never give in to defeat. Sure many quarterbacks would have better careers in a better coached system but what Brady has done in it will never be matched because of the one key missing ingredient......Tom Brady.

 

[RobertWeathers]

AR is not the kind of QB who would do well in the system that emphasizes the short passing game. He succeeds in throwing the ball downfield a lot due to his accuracy and arm strength. Frankly, I think he would be bored in NE’s system.

Not sure your take is accurate.

Would AR not do as well here because he would be board?

Quarterback Air Yards: 2016 NFL Season

 

[adster124]

Put Brady into a west coast offense and he is not a generational player anymore but merely a very good QB. This does not make him a system QB but a human being who like everyone else has strengths and weaknesses.

I don't understand why passionate Brady fans get upset when others point out that for him to reach his full potential he had to be in an environment that recognized those strengths and weaknesses and built an identity on offense around that accordingly.

His strengths (e.g. fast decision making, fast release, accuracy, foot work...) give him the edge over many other elite athletes in crunch situations and are what make him the GOAT. If you don't have a fundamental design on offense that leverages those strengths strategically you are not getting full value out of him.

At this point people should understand that success in football is never, ever based on a single thing. But it is many parts working together in unison to create something bigger.

Why wouldn't brady be a system quarterback in a west coast system? the traits he has such as fast decision, fast release, accuracy, footwork, and more are very important in a west coast offense. He would be perfect for that offense. He's also played in deep passing offenses with mcdaniels and moss. hes played in 5 step drop offenses that do deep play action passes. He can play in any offense besides a read option spread offense.

 

[adster124]

Why wouldn't brady be a great quarterback in a west coast system? the traits he has such as fast decision, fast release, accuracy, footwork, and more are very important in a west coast offense. He would be perfect for that offense. He's also played in deep passing offenses with mcdaniels and moss. hes played in 5 step drop offenses that do deep play action passes. He can play in any offense besides a read option spread offense.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Not sure your take is accurate.

Would AR not do as well here because he would be board?

Quarterback Air Yards: 2016 NFL Season

I feel like NE’s system would not be suited to AR’s strengths. AR thrives on the deep ball and that’s not Erhardt-Perkins.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

To me it’s really simple. He’s been successful with Weis, O’Brien, and McDaniels. Weis, O’Brien, and McDaniels were unable to get anything close to elite, or even average quarterback play, without Brady.

 

[RobertWeathers]

To me it’s really simple. He’s been successful with Weis, O’Brien, and McDaniels. Weis, O’Brien, and McDaniels were unable to get anything close to elite, or even average quarterback play, without Brady.

Not 100% true.

Cassell had a Pro Bowl year with Weis.

Watson was electric last year for BOB

Jimmy played well with Josh.

Those examples do not mean they made Tom or Tom made them. It just means they were a good player/OC tandem.

 

[luuked]

Why wouldn't brady be a system quarterback in a west coast system? the traits he has such as fast decision, fast release, accuracy, footwork, and more are very important in a west coast offense. He would be perfect for that offense. He's also played in deep passing offenses with mcdaniels and moss. hes played in 5 step drop offenses that do deep play action passes. He can play in any offense besides a read option spread offense.

I was thinking more Air Coryell when I wrote West Coast. That was my mistake and I agree with @robertweathers about it. I guess I just spend too much time in the sun or the break from real football has really been that long. My mistake.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Not 100% true.

Cassell had a Pro Bowl year with Weis.

Watson was electric last year for BOB

Jimmy played well with Josh.

Those examples do not mean they made Tom or Tom made them. It just means they were a good player/OC tandem.

That's a total of 24 games: 16 (Cassell), 6 (Watson), and 2 (Garappolo).

McDaniels was HC and OC for Denver and St. Louis for 2.5 years, Weis spent 10 years around the NCAA after retiring in 2014; O'Brien has been at Penn State and the Texans for 6 years. So, we are talking about nearly 20 combined years that the three of them to show they are truly QB gurus and can magically spin gold with their "system." I don't think one pro bowl season, a good looking six quarters of play, and an incredible rookie athlete playing awesome for less than half a season, really puts a dent in my overall point.

It's not that McDaniels, Weis, and/or O'Brien aren't good coaches; it's that each of them has proven that their system is only as good as its quarterback, and Brady can thrive with various types of offenses, whether it's the spread, two TE, west coast style, or virtually anything that he has, including when he plays with garbage skill players.

If you want to see a great system where virtually anyone could be plugged into it and play at a pro bowl level, you'd need to look at the 49ers from 1981-1998. It wasn't just Montana and Young, it was even guys like Steve Bono, Elvis Grbac, and Jeff Garcia. With all the talent and the system, it was very much more a plug-n-play.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I think the "system" argument is overrated. If a QB has a strong arm, can make quick, intelligent decisions, is accurate, had good footwork and can lead men he can play anywhere in any system.

I think AR would be do well in the E-P offense but I do wonder how we would perform as a young player under BB and Weis. Those two coached Tom hard and thats what Tom wanted. Not sure how AR would handle that kind of minute-by-minute pressure.

RW, it is nothing more than stupid, mindless nonsense used in a pitiful attempt to "rationalize" and denigrate and reduce the impressiveness of Tom's (and the team's) accomplishments.

It's like calling Bill Russell the greatest "winner" ever.