The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[signbabybrady]

I fear McDaniels' style of defense is becoming more and more obsolete in today's NFL and I don't think it benefits Maye and his strengths and weaknesses. Kraft Sr. needs to learn that we have to move on from the past.

I don't think this would be Vrabel's first choice, but he might be willing to compromise to take him if he really wants to be here. Vrabel chose to go the Shanahan style of offense route when he was in Tennessee when he could have just as easily installed the McDaniels/Patriots offense. So I don't see this would be the offense he would choose with complete autonomy.

I love McDaniels. He could do a good job developing Maye, but I think his offense would hinder what Maye could do.

I agree on McDaniels' style offense (I assume what you meant) becoming antiquated. That offense worked when you have a quarterback who is a very traditional drop back passer who relies on precision and timing. Brady, and to a much lesser extent Mac Jones, were guys who liked to sit in the pocket go through progressions and hit the open guy. While I think Maye will be able to do that (and to some extent already can) I think limiting him to that takes away so much of what Maye is capable of. Maye is an athlete and needs a guy like Johnson who can utilize his mobility and use the threat of Maye's mobility to keep a defense honest and open up some big plays. McDaniels' offense is like a Honda Accord. It gets the job done year in and year out but won't be able to keep up if you get into a race whereas Johnson's offense is a Ferrari. Flashy, fast, and exotic but costs a lot more to maintain.

This goes back to my whole ceiling comment. Sure the Ferrari could get wrecked and you're back to a Honda but I would love to see what the Ferrari can do with a capable driver.

I don't buy the obsolete or outdated arguments at all.

Complicated maybe but aren't they all and isn't that the point.

Anyway back to the outdated part: it's not like we're sitting here 20 years later still using the Weiss offense it evolved with the trends through the years. It went from the more traditional I form stuff that Charlie ran, to a more spread when the right WRs were here, 2 TEs when the personnel called for that, we did a lot of he hurry up stuff when that was vogue, and we even put in some RPO stuff for Cam and Mac.

I always remember reading that one of the benefits of the system was that once you had it down it then made it easy to steal other trends and concepts.

 

[Family]

...and there is mature, proven front office leadership in which Johnson is 100% comfortable and aligned with on personnel.

If this happened and they brought in a comfortable/trusted (to BJ) veteran guy to complete run the defense so Johnson could get accumulated slowly, this would be ideal. BJ could completely be in charge of the offense, and personnel with some input from above.

If Ben Johnson were on board with all this, I don't see how we couldn't take the swing?

 

[Huckleberry1]

I won’t be surprised if the Patriots announce Vrabel as their coach by the end of the day.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Mike Vrabel is a favorite of mine but: Ben Johnson brings that OC aspect which I crave.

Yes, his run first offense will work perfectly with our offensive line.

 

[PatsFan2]

Yes, his run first offense will work perfectly with our offensive line.

No real OC would use Vederian Lowe as Starting OT muchless Left Tackle. So I see a Cam Robinson or Ronnie Stanley in FA and a High Draft pick who can swing at either Tackle spot.

 

[Headcase]

I won’t be surprised if the Patriots announce Vrabel as their coach by the end of the day.

They aren't going to announce until at least they've done the primary interviews with the other two candidates.

 

[Froob]

No real OC would use Vederian Lowe as Starting OT muchless Left Tackle. So I see a Cam Robinson or Ronnie Stanley in FA and a High Draft pick who can swing at either Tackle spot.

I’d be worried about Stanley if ravens don’t pay him. Ravens and Chiefs both opted not to pay Orlando Brown. Good tackles get paid.

 

[Headcase]

It is interesting to note not only is there a limitation on having to do virtual interviews with the Lion's guys; apparently there is also a limitation of 3hrs on the virtual interview....it is pretty common for in person interviews to last all day....so Vrabel, along with already knowing the Krafts, will likely have alot more time to provide information/vision ; while the Lion's guys will be much more surface level.

 

[Headcase]

No real OC would use Vederian Lowe as Starting OT muchless Left Tackle. So I see a Cam Robinson or Ronnie Stanley in FA and a High Draft pick who can swing at either Tackle spot.

I think best available option is going to be Robinson....is he a star LT, no but he should buy us a couple of years to get the next guy in place....but they have to keep looking for the next guy, just not say we have a LT, we're good.

And don't get tied up too much in how much he gets paid...it is probably going to look like a significate overpay.

 

[Love The Drake]

It is interesting to note not only is there a limitation on having to do virtual interviews with the Lion's guys; apparently there is also a limitation of 3hrs on the virtual interview....it is pretty common for in person interviews to last all day....so Vrabel, along with already knowing the Krafts, will likely have alot more time to provide information/vision ; while the Lion's guys will be much more surface level.

That shouldn’t impact Johnson. But it more than likely will
I think the coldness of a virtual interview vs Kraft being a handshake big old school guy will impact the most.

I highly doubt they cancel interviews with Johnson and Glenn unless Vrabel gives them the ultimatum.

I guess that’s possible.

 

[Love The Drake]

I think best available option is going to be Robinson....is he a star LT, no but he should buy us a couple of years to get the next guy in place....but they have to keep looking for the next guy, just not say we have a LT, we're good.

And don't get tied up too much in how much he gets paid...it is probably going to look like a significate overpay.

I like the idea of trading 4 for a starting Olineman and a late first.
Or trading 4 for AJ Brown or Metcalf and swapping picks.

 

[Headcase]

I like the idea of trading 4 for a starting Olineman and a late first.
Or trading 4 for AJ Brown or Metcalf and swapping picks.

We should be able to make the IOL work with who we have in house, its the tackles we have questions about; and I doubt any one is trading a starting tackle for our pick because there is no way to replace the player.

And #4 is too rich for either of those players.....Brown was traded for a mid 1st and 4th going on 3yrs ago.

 

[jdlboot14]

I assume we're getting Vrabel - it's as good a choice as we could hope for at this juncture.
IF he can steal Saleh as DC - that'd be a coup. I'd love Saleh to coord this D.
OC is the interesting thing. I know everyone wants some new young hot name.
But say for sake of rumor - JMD comes back. I'm not afraid of him "ruining" Maye. I actually think Maye has the intangibles that Josh would mesh with and excel in both of their values. (Would JMD be worse for Maye than sticking with AVP? Can't see that)

JMD was here just 3 seasons ago, with these current players: Andrews, Onwenu, Henry, Bourne, Stevenson.
I think JMD could actually get Polk to be used like Meyers, Gibson to be an even better White, Bell to model after AH.
And we always gave credit to Scar for those OL's, but JMD had the OL's playing pretty well without Scar with guys like:
Connolly, Wendell, Wynn, Karras, Mason, Cannon.

 

[Headcase]

That shouldn’t impact Johnson. But it more than likely will
I think the coldness of a virtual interview vs Kraft being a handshake big old school guy will impact the most.

I highly doubt they cancel interviews with Johnson and Glenn unless Vrabel gives them the ultimatum.

I guess that’s possible.

Johnson is going to have to sell not just the offense but his entire vision for the franchise....that is alot in 3hrs.

 

[Headcase]

I assume we're getting Vrabel - it's as good a choice as we could hope for at this juncture.
IF he can steal Saleh as DC - that'd be a coup. I'd love Saleh to coord this D.

If Saleh somehow ends up here....I think he'll get a HC job or go back to SF....he won't be coordinating this D, it will have to be torn down and rebuilt in a different image. It would be interesting to see what guys actually fit that image.

 

[Love The Drake]

t

If Saleh somehow ends up here....I think he'll get a HC job or go back to SF....he won't be coordinating this D, it will have to be torn down and rebuilt in a different image. It would be interesting to see what guys actually fit that image.

Only way Saleh comes here is Kraft breaks the bank and he wands to stick it the Jets.
We have a better chance at Patricia or Mangini coaching the D.

 

[Zuma]

 

[Zuma]

 

[Love The Drake]

That’s where he ends up I’m telling you good hire for the Jets.
Would make it interesting if we hired Johnson and them Glenn.

 

[The Brandon Five]

We have two legit HC candidates in Vrabel and Ben Johnson. Hoping together we can vet these guys as much as we can as fans. If it was your call who would you hire and why?

It's a tough decision.

Here's my initial layman's take. Admittedly I don't know much about BJ but hope to learn more.

Vrabel Pros:

Experienced
Won coach of the year
Proven good in game decision maker
Will instill culture of toughness/accountability
Strong defensively
Known HC commodity
Tight with Kraft

Vrabel Cons:

Had some losing seasons
Butted heads with management in TN
Potentially overvalued as coach based on Pats HOF status
Will be reliant on OC for offensive system with potential revolving door
Tight with Kraft

BJ Pros:

Offensive genius
Not susceptible to OC revolving door
Possibe Ray Agnew package deal
Wears tight pants
Great initials

BJ Cons:

Decent coaching experience but lack of NFL HC experience
Unknown HC Commodity

At this point I'd probably default to Vrabel given the fit and his proven experience, but the thought of passing on a potential Offensive mastermind definitley gives me pause.