TBC vs. Willie McG

[Fencer]

So TBC, a Patriot OLB from Northern California, sings and has a clothing business.

Didn't Willie McGinest, a Patriot OLB from Southern California, produce records and have a clothing business?

 

[PatsBoy12]

By far, Tully Banta-Cain has been one of the biggest disappointments to this point in the season. I wasn't necessarily expecting another 10+ sack season, but he's been abysmal thus far . . . perhaps nonexistent is a better descriptive word. He just hasn't shown up this year and that's why Cunningham and Ninko seem to be starting and/or playing more snaps.

 

[stinkypete]

So TBC, a Patriot OLB from Northern California, sings and has a clothing business.

Didn't Willie McGinest, a Patriot OLB from Southern California, produce records and have a clothing business?

I believe he did.

Look, TBC and Willie DO have something in common!

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

By far, Tully Banta-Cain has been one of the biggest disappointments to this point in the season. I wasn't necessarily expecting another 10+ sack season, but he's been abysmal thus far . . . perhaps nonexistent is a better descriptive word. He just hasn't shown up this year and that's why Cunningham and Ninko seem to be starting and/or playing more snaps.

Yes, other players are starting, but I hardly call TBC's season abysmal. He is drawing extra attention and he still gets pressure on the QB. As a third down specialist and the senior member of the OLB corps, he's doing a good job. Can he be upgraded? Yes, perhaps NE finds a new kid in the draft. For now TBC is disrupting the pocket and helping his linemates by drawing attention to himself - I think BB can live with that.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Yes, other players are starting, but I hardly call TBC's season abysmal. He is drawing extra attention and he still gets pressure on the QB. As a third down specialist and the senior member of the OLB corps, he's doing a good job. Can he be upgraded? Yes, perhaps NE finds a new kid in the draft. For now TBC is disrupting the pocket and helping his linemates by drawing attention to himself - I think BB can live with that.

Extra attention? Go back and watch the Chargers game when he tried the spin move 30 times, completely taking himself out of the play each and every time. The guy is a non-factor on most plays and isn't drawing any extra attention or double teams. Other than a few plays early on, he has not played well at all this season. If he was being so disruptive, we wouldn't be seeing Ninko, a 5-year JAG, as much more playing time than the Patriots' sack leader from a season ago. I hope he gets it turned around down the home stretch.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Extra attention? Go back and watch the Chargers game when he tried the spin move 30 times, completely taking himself out of the play each and every time. The guy is a non-factor on most plays and isn't drawing any extra attention or double teams. Other than a few plays early on, he has not played well at all this season. If he was being so disruptive, we wouldn't be seeing Ninko, a 5-year JAG, as much more playing time than the Patriots' sack leader from a season ago. I hope he gets it turned around down the home stretch.

Sounds like your lying eyes vs. my lying eyes. Ninko a 5 year JAG? Damn, sounds just like Mike Vrabel. I'm glad you're not prone to a rush to judgment.

 

[unoriginal]

You know, for all the talk about TBC riding the pine, there's only been one game this season where he's had less snaps than two other OLBs.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You know, for all the talk about TBC riding the pine, there's only been one game this season where he's had less snaps than two other OLBs.

But he sucks, why would he get used in a game? :snob:

 

[unoriginal]

Extra attention? Go back and watch the Chargers game when he tried the spin move 30 times, completely taking himself out of the play each and every time. The guy is a non-factor on most plays and isn't drawing any extra attention or double teams. Other than a few plays early on, he has not played well at all this season. If he was being so disruptive, we wouldn't be seeing Ninko, a 5-year JAG, as much more playing time than the Patriots' sack leader from a season ago. I hope he gets it turned around down the home stretch.

I think Ninko and TBC (and Cunningham) are different OLBs. The Pats seem to like Cunningham and TBC rushing the passer, while Ninko is the guy who more frequently drops into coverage. At least IMO.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Sounds like your lying eyes vs. my lying eyes. Ninko a 5 year JAG? Damn, sounds just like Mike Vrabel. I'm glad you're not prone to a rush to judgment.

Wow, so I guess that means he's Mike Vrabel. No wonder he wears that number. Thanks for the clarity.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I think Ninko and TBC (and Cunningham) are different OLBs. The Pats seem to like Cunningham and TBC rushing the passer, while Ninko is the guy who more frequently drops into coverage. At least IMO.

An opinion I can respect, at least. I'm not at all afraid to be proven wrong about something or averse to opinion that makes some sense. What I won't entertain is the notion that TBC isn't producing the same numbers because of "extra attention" that, frankly, just doesn't exist and probably won't.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Wow, so I guess that means he's Mike Vrabel. No wonder he wears that number. Thanks for the clarity.

Wow, I guess your keen insights mean you're Bill Belichick! Too bad Bob Kraft has an impostor wearing the hoodie on the sideline and starting JAGs instead of Superstars.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Any time someone questions your thoughts you get so defensive. Such a homer. If Banta-Cain was doing his job, the pass rush wouldn't suck as much as it does. He's always been a 3rd down specialist and a below average one at that. He doesn't even come close to warranting the contract he was given. Ninkovich is not even worth mentioning in the same breath as Vrabel.

It's amazing what a few wins can do to warp the reality. The edges of the Pats D still remains a huge liability in comparison to other contenders. Freeny Mathis, Harrison Woodley, Pace Taylor, Suggs Johnson.

Cunningham looks like he's got game, but Ninkovich needs to be upgraded.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Any time someone questions your thoughts you get so defensive. Such a homer. If Banta-Cain was doing his job, the pass rush wouldn't suck as much as it does. He's always been a 3rd down specialist and a below average one at that. He doesn't even come close to warranting the contract he was given. Ninkovich is not even worth mentioning in the same breath as Vrabel.

It's amazing what a few wins can do to warp the reality. The edges of the Pats D still remains a huge liability in comparison to other contenders. Freeny Mathis, Harrison Woodley, Pace Taylor, Suggs Johnson.

Cunningham looks like he's got game, but Ninkovich needs to be upgraded.

Odd, I believe we were both using English, certainly you and I are now. "Homer," how kind of you. Of course I presume you are using it negatively to denigrate someone who holds a differing opinion from your own? If not do please correct this impression.

What makes you so confident the pass rush sucks? Yesterday's game at Green Bay or last weekend's game in San Diego? Both games where the defense was predicated on taking away the deep ball along the slow developing routes and forcing the Quarterback to use the quicker developing underneath routes? The pass rush has been effective enough to force Phillip Rivers and Brett Favre to use those underneath routes the way Bill Belichick and his staff designed the game plan. Ponder that one a moment before jumping in and typing "homer" at me, there may just be method to my madness in pointing this out instead of rushing to judgment with a pitch fork and torch as is the norm around here.

For the record, TBC has not "always" been a third down specialist. His first four seasons he was a Special Team's specialist, who morphed into a reserve OLB in his fourth season earning five starts as an injury replacement. I have no idea how San Francisco used him, he surprised everybody as a starter last season, in his sixth season with NE it's factually incorrect to call him a career third down specialist despite the fact that has become his primary role this season. You may disagree with his contract, but the Head Coach whose name you've appropriated for your user name signed off on that contract. If you respect him enough to use his name as yours, perhaps it's reasonable to give the new contract more than seven games before writing off the player's worth.

Ninkovich, Vrabel, they were both career Special Team's specialists until Bill Belichick and his staff began transforming them into starters. There were people telling us Tom Brady sucked at the same time he was winning Super Bowls, your attitude towards TBC and Ninko is not a new phenomenon. For the next week NE, despite having such allegedly poor OLBs, despite no pass rush, despite no pass defense, despite no run defense (I do hope you recognize some of the many accusations made about this team's defense to date), is alone on top the NFL - I certainly hope you're not crediting that circumstance to the dominating offense.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Any time someone questions your thoughts you get so defensive. Such a homer. If Banta-Cain was doing his job, the pass rush wouldn't suck as much as it does. He's always been a 3rd down specialist and a below average one at that. He doesn't even come close to warranting the contract he was given. Ninkovich is not even worth mentioning in the same breath as Vrabel.

It's amazing what a few wins can do to warp the reality. The edges of the Pats D still remains a huge liability in comparison to other contenders. Freeny Mathis, Harrison Woodley, Pace Taylor, Suggs Johnson.

Cunningham looks like he's got game, but Ninkovich needs to be upgraded.

The homer card

Winning warps reality?

Winning is reality.

It's simply amazing some of the things this board comes up with after a win.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I'm sorry that unlike you two, some fans are more objective. They can see the flaws in the team that they root for. This defense has continually gotten gashed through the air by opposing offenses. The defense has been far from stellar. San Diego was gashing them for huge gains through the air before morons like Goodman voluntarily put the ball on the turf for the taking.

The Pats have done what they always do: limit mistakes and take advantage of the opponent's mistakes. They've gotten timely plays when they needed them. But to think this defense is good enough to get the job done down the line with the way the offense is playing is simply crazy.

There's a reason why they are dead last in 3rd down efficiency on D. A lot of that has to do with pass rush and the inability of this team to put any sort of consistent pressure on the QB. I apologize for kissing the ass of every Pats player.

Teams have moved the ball on this team with relative ease. That's simply a fact. When you've got the 31st ranked pass defense in the league and are giving up close to 400 yards of total offense per game, there's room for a lot of improvement. Sorry I don't have tunnel vision.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Any time someone questions your thoughts you get so defensive. Such a homer

I'm guessing you don't read too many of his posts then. As for the homer remark, thats just dumb. Patsboy12 has issues with his reading comprehension, and you jump into the conversation with, Box is a homer, and TBC sucks.....brilliant.

Nobody with a brain is saying the Pats defense is awesome. A real homer would post "OMG! Bill is god because we won. The players meant to miss those tackles, and throws"

Box is not a homer, nor am I. Though for some reason the 'haters' (who think they know everything) always use the same line of defense,,,,"you're such a homer" :bricks:

Now, for the comments about TBC. He was always a liability against the run. Against the pass, he was ok. Cunningham will be the real deal this time next year. TBC is what he is, a part of the OLB rotation. He doesnt suck, nor does Ninkovich. I love how certain players seem to get the 'suck' label because they're not putting up great numbers. By 'certain', I mean guys like TBC. I never see anyone starting threads about why Welker is not averaging 10 catches a game. He doesnt suck, but his numbers arent huge by any means

 

[BTTA]

You know, for all the talk about TBC riding the pine, there's only been one game this season where he's had less snaps than two other OLBs.

Please, don't interrupt the thread with facts!