Story on Patriots' documentary brings recent dysfunction to light

[Tunescribe]

I think the term used by Kraft at the time of Crygate to describe Belichick was "schmuck."

I'm not a big fan of coaches, I think their over-valued, but Bill didn't bother me until he let Brady walk. That was the straw that broke this camel's back.

Hence, your own perpetual Crygate.

Here's an idea you'd love: let the players decide which teams to play for and coach themselves. Set their own practice schedules, draw up their own game plans, decide amongst themselves who to substitute and when, etc. Clock management by committee. And everyone gets a Gatorade bath at the end.

 

[Steve102]

From the Director himself, not a hit piece. Team Bill can relax.

I think the title is 100% click bait, there's maybe 10 second spent discussing Butler, but it's easily the best thing EEI's put out in a while. 30 minutes well spent listening to Benedict.

 

[State]

I would have moved on from BB in 2018 (or at least 2019) and kept TB. But saying that at the time would have been denounced as heresy. Literaly everybody refused to see what was going on and labeled the reports we had at the time as gossip from pseudo-jounalists.

I think it was not about his style (which I still think it was/is correct). But the exasperation of his style and the inability to let it go just a little bit acknowledging TB "exceptionalism". And not being held accountable for his mistakes by RK.
So, Ego and the old say "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely".

This is one of the best posts I’ve read here. And its undeniable RK gave BB a lot of rope. Which the last four years he frankly found wound around his neck.

The moment people should have taken away BB’s GM duties was after the second round Jordan Richards pick. Dude lacked the athleticism to play in the NFL. It was painfully obvious. Even to me. One play in the Rose Bowl did it for me.

But being old and cranky, the character of Jordan Richards—he was a team leader and was like a Boy Scout—made him desirable for the guy making the picks.

The scouting department must have demoralized.

 

[Triumph]

So your hero should've kept Jimmy over Brady in 2017?

No

Your new GM * Kraft should have let BB run the team instead of interfering. It was the beginning of the end. As time passes, the tenets that BB instilled in this team will fade away.

 

[amfootball]

The interesting thing about Kobe is that the fanbase was actually angry he got the contract he did to end his career. I loved Kobe, but it was time for him to move on. Stephen A. Smith had said the Lakers gave Kobe the contract as a "thank you" for his service and to keep asses in the seats.

Aside from that and the Shaq and Kobe breakup, I didn't really hear complaints from Lakers fans or media regarding criticism like the Pats have had. The Owner (Jerry Buss) and Coach (Phil Jackson) didn't get hate from fans that the Patriots receive from theirs. I asked this before but haven't received clears answers, but my observation is that the criticism comes from that they could've done more.

Kobe was washed and had the achilles and STILL the Lakers treated him like royalty which he deserved. Brady was coming off delivering the 6th ring and beating Mahomes in KC and Kraft/Bill did not want to give him a 2 year deal. It was IMO the most absurd, asinine handling of the greatest player of his sport I have ever seen.

 

[signbabybrady]

Kobe was washed and had the achilles and STILL the Lakers treated him like royalty which he deserved. Brady was coming off delivering the 6th ring and beating Mahomes in KC and Kraft/Bill did not want to give him a 2 year deal. It was IMO the most absurd, asinine handling of the greatest player of his sport I have ever seen.

I think we should have given him whatever he wanted whenever he wanted it. But people forget that this occurred over the series of several years.

I'm not going to fact check my exact years of everything but basically we negotiated what we thought would be the contract that took him to the end of his career when we signed him to deal that ran through age 42. Somewhere along the lines Brady got it in his head he was going for 45 and wanted a new deal from us that would give him that chance. Since Bill had him until he was 42 I don't think he ever seriously considered it. Brady kept winning and kept getting closer to his lame duck year and that's when things really hit a breaking point and he insisted on the no franchise clause before the lame duck year. And I think Bill always thought he had that in his back pocket but Brady wasn't going to play out 2019 with Bill having that leverage. Up until then I think Bill thought Brady didn't have it in him to leave which was a huge miscalculation.

But everyone just conflates all of this into Bill forced Brady out after the 2019 season when at that point all the damage was already done and Bill could do nothing to stop it. Kraft maybe could have saved it by backing up a brinx truck but given the new quotes no amount money would make him change his mind but that was at this point. In the past I don't even think the dollar amount mattered as much as getting to age 45.

So in Bill's shoes he had to commit to 45 years in advance when he had him until 42 already and potentially had a franchise tag to use too until that option was stripped away.

Again we are talking about Tom Brady so I think we should have just caved and gave him whatever he wanted but if we are being honest Bill's stance was not crazy it just so happens he did in fact make it to 45 and won a SB at 43 making Bill wrong.

And then Bill got replacing Brady so wrong with both Cam and Mac that it meant that even if Bill had been right about Tom we all would have rather seen Tom play out the string than what we saw Cam and Mac do anyway.

Throw in the Jimmy angles too and it becomes quite a tangled web.

I think caving and giving him the no franchise clause was a fair thing to do for someone who did so much for this franchise but imagine if they hadn't. Either Tom would have had to holdout which would have made him look a little like the Villain everyone makes Bill out to be or he plays and we potentially tag him and never gets ring 7 in Tampa. 2020 probably still is a tough year for us and who knows if Brady plays under the tag or what happens but it would certainly would have changed the narrative a lot.

 

[archstanton543]

But everyone just conflates all of this into Bill forced Brady out after the 2019 season when at that point all the damage was already done and Bill could do nothing to stop it. Kraft maybe could have saved it by backing up a brinx truck but given the new quotes no amount money would make him change his mind but that was at this point. In the past I don't even think the dollar amount mattered as much as getting to age 45.

Brinks. Armored car company.

 

[sb1]

BB is one of the coaching greats. You can make arguments for and against that he’s the greatest but he belongs on that top tier. I’m a Pats fan so I’ll call him the greatest just because.

His record sans Brady blows and that’s notable on his legacy but his work with Brady counts too and the GOAT has acknowledged what his HC meant to his success. Have a hard time envisioning a scenario where he is not a first ballot HOFer.

 

[archstanton543]

Have a hard time envisioning a scenario where he is not a first ballot HOFer.

There's a lot of bitter sportswriters in other markets that won't vote for him because of Spy and Deflate Gate.

 

[amfootball]

BB is one of the coaching greats. You can make arguments for and against that he’s the greatest but he belongs on that top tier. I’m a Pats fan so I’ll call him the greatest just because.

His record sans Brady blows and that’s notable on his legacy but his work with Brady counts too and the GOAT has acknowledged what his HC meant to his success. Have a hard time envisioning a scenario where he is not a first ballot HOFer.

If he's not, it's his own fault. His personal skills and handling of the media plain sucked. And that may cost him for the Hall on the first try.

 

[sb1]

There's a lot of bitter sportswriters in other markets that won't vote for him because of Spy and Deflate Gate.

I remember one writer from Pitt who said he won’t be voting for Bill for that reason. But 5 years after he retires whenever that is - who knows. There probably aren’t enough of them to matter in the voting outcome.

 

[sb1]

If he's not, it's his own fault. His personal skills and handling of the media plain sucked. And that may cost him for the Hall on the first try.

Yeah BB was always an a-hole. That’s who he is. Even when he was with Cleveland.

It’s clear now that’s why Brady left. He had enough of dealing with that.

 

[signbabybrady]

BB is one of the coaching greats. You can make arguments for and against that he’s the greatest but he belongs on that top tier. I’m a Pats fan so I’ll call him the greatest just because.

His record sans Brady blows and that’s notable on his legacy but his work with Brady counts too and the GOAT has acknowledged what his HC meant to his success. Have a hard time envisioning a scenario where he is not a first ballot HOFer.

The thing about the record without Tom that annoys me is that there are 5 coaches who won 3 or more SBs and only one of the 5 did it without the same QB.

Does Gibbs winning with multiple QBs and the rest of his story add up to enough to overtake the fact that 6 is such a large number.

Reid has 3 with the same QB but also lead another team to SB so he has success across multiple QBs. But then Bill beat him head to head in SB 39. Obviously he's still going so he can still get there.

Shula obviously has the wins record and the undefeated season and he also took multiple teams and QBs to the SB and his 2 wins actually come from different QBs. But again is that enough to pass him to 6.

There are a few other coaches who you can make a case for too. Personally I don't even think Gibbs is close. Shula and Reid's cases are interesting and then there are guys from before the SB era who other than Lombardi mostly get ignored fairly or unfairly.

Lombardi deserves a mention and still might even be the GOAT but all of his winning was with Starr too.

I put Bill on top but if your a fan of one them you can make your case and I won't call you crazy. Anything less and that person is just a hater.

 

[upstater1]

BB is one of the coaching greats. You can make arguments for and against that he’s the greatest but he belongs on that top tier. I’m a Pats fan so I’ll call him the greatest just because.

His record sans Brady blows and that’s notable on his legacy but his work with Brady counts too and the GOAT has acknowledged what his HC meant to his success. Have a hard time envisioning a scenario where he is not a first ballot HOFer.

It's just circumstance. That's all it is.

3 rebuilds contributed to that poor record without Brady.

But what's the record without Brady after a rebuild?

1. 2 poor years in Cleveland followed by a playoff year when the QB changed, followed by a team-wide meltdown because of the owner.
2. Rebuild in New England, brings in a lot of old vets to hold the fort while changing the culture and jettisoning some middle-aged talent.
3. 2020 begins a new rebuild, but it's just a stall, purgatory, as they decided to dump all the dead money into 2020 instead of carrying it forward.
4. The selection of Mac, the dissension around the decision to move on from Brady, and the loss of coaches, yields poor results.

Yet inside those 3 sets of circumstances, his teams won with QBs like Vinny Testaverde, Matt Cassel, Jimmy G. and Brissett. Heck, even Drew Bledsoe was the QB in the '01 AFCCG win over the Steelers.

 

[amfootball]

The thing about the record without Tom that annoys me is that there are 5 coaches who won 3 or more SBs and only one of the 5 did it without the same QB.

Does Gibbs winning with multiple QBs and the rest of his story add up to enough to overtake the fact that 6 is such a large number.

Reid has 3 with the same QB but also lead another team to SB so he has success across multiple QBs. But then Bill beat him head to head in SB 39. Obviously he's still going so he can still get there.

Shula obviously has the wins record and the undefeated season and he also took multiple teams and QBs to the SB and his 2 wins actually come from different QBs. But again is that enough to pass him to 6.

There are a few other coaches who you can make a case for too. Personally I don't even think Gibbs is close. Shula and Reid's cases are interesting and then there are guys from before the SB era who other than Lombardi mostly get ignored fairly or unfairly.

Lombardi deserves a mention and still might even be the GOAT but all of his winning was with Starr too.

I put Bill on top but if your a fan of one them you can make your case and I won't call you crazy. Anything less and that person is just a hater.

It's not just Bill did not win a SB without Brady. He plain sucked here and in Cleveland. He is sub .500 with only 2 playoff appearances and 1 playoff win. This spans almost 11 years of coaching without Brady. It's a big sample size.

 

[signbabybrady]

Yeah BB was always an a-hole. That’s who he is. Even when he was with Cleveland.

It’s clear now that’s why Brady left. He had enough of dealing with that.

I really don't think it was the money or the *******. Brady just wanted to play until he was 45 I think he might have even excepted 44 if we just gave him those years prior to the start of 2019. When it became clear we weren't Brady decided he was leaving when the contract ended and insisted on the no franchise clause.

 

[archstanton543]

4. The selection of Mac, the dissension around the decision to move on from Brady, and the loss of coaches, yields poor results.

Yet inside those 3 sets of circumstances, his teams won with QBs like Vinny Testaverde, Matt Cassel, Jimmy G. and Brissett. Heck, even Drew Bledsoe was the QB in the '01 AFCCG win over the Steelers.

The selection of Mac wasn't a mistake. He was projected to be a first round draft pick. He got the team to the playoffs his first year. He was ruined by lack of talent around him (put there by BB the GM) and musical chairs at OC (put there by BB the coach).

BB didn't win anything with the QB's you listed. They won individual games, sure. Cassel benefitted from an easy schedule and STILL missed the playoffs.

Bledsoe didn't start that AFCCG. He chipped in with a key TD drive, which is great, but it wasn't "his" game.

 

[signbabybrady]

It's not just Bill did not win a SB without Brady. He plain sucked here and in Cleveland. He is sub .500 with only 2 playoff appearances and 1 playoff win. This spans almost 11 years of coaching without Brady. It's a big sample size.

I'm not trying to pretend his time without Tom was good but he did get seasons with double digit wins from Testeverde, Cassel, and even Mac. Of those 11 seasons I easily write off the first year in Cleveland and the first year in New England. Same with year 1 post Brady and a year spent coaching a franchise that was moving. Even with those seasons not counting he's still only right around .500 and only one playoff win but to ignore the circumstances doesn't paint an accurate picture.

 

[upstater1]

The selection of Mac wasn't a mistake. He was projected to be a first round draft pick. He got the team to the playoffs his first year. He was ruined by lack of talent around him (put there by BB the GM) and musical chairs at OC (put there by BB the coach).

BB didn't win anything with the QB's you listed. They won individual games, sure. Cassel benefitted from an easy schedule and STILL missed the playoffs.

Bledsoe didn't start that AFCCG. He chipped in with a key TD drive, which is great, but it wasn't "his" game.

1. Mac never had it, never will. BB was absolutely right to want a later round QB instead, and you could see it when they drafted him. They didn't pounce on the guy, BB even asked if they were really all agreed to go with Mac in the final analysis. Clearly there were other opinions.

2. He was referring to BB's won loss record. Not Super Bowls won without Brady. What don't you understand about this?

3. Your argument about Bledsoe makes no sense. Who cares what Bledsoe did? The point is they won the game without Brady contributing.

 

[amfootball]

I'm not trying to pretend his time without Tom was good but he did get seasons with double digit wins from Testeverde, Cassel, and even Mac. Of those 11 seasons I easily write off the first year in Cleveland and the first year in New England. Same with year 1 post Brady and a year spent coaching a franchise that was moving. Even with those seasons not counting he's still only right around .500 and only one playoff win but to ignore the circumstances doesn't paint an accurate picture.

Sure. I mean there are always circumstances but he is the GOAT HC with Brady, and sub .500 without him. The juxtaposition is hard to ignore.