So much for "culture change" ...

[RobertWeathers]

What did you expect him to do? Judge and Phat Matt didn't know what they were doing.

It was a systemic issue. Bill empowered Judge Dread and Fat Matt when he shouldn't have. Mac wasn't the leader they needed at the position and wasn't respected. Veterans started to leave. Bill was also trying to evolve and be somewhat kinder and gentler and it didn't work.

 

[Real fan 02]

I think it did deteriorate.

Even though he was bashed for keeping DMC longer than he had to that was the main reason he kept him around.

This is more the reason I'd like Vrabel.. a guy who helped instil the culture, who walked and talked patriots culture. The culture needs a hard reset and Vrabel has been around the block. Ben Johnson absolutely a wonderful offensive mind. However what could he do for the culture that is a huge question that Highsmith needs to ask emphatically.

 

[Real fan 02]

David Andrews would like a word.

D. Wise, peppers, dugger, j.jones, schooler, Bentley, Tavai, Drake, Henry...

 

[mike_usagisan]

D. Wise, peppers, dugger, j.jones, schooler, Bentley, Tavai, Drake, Henry...

I think there are some real leaders there. I'd say Strange, too, the way he gutted through his injury two seasons ago.

I think the new HC is going to challenge a lot of the others. And we're going to see who is part of the new Pats culture and who need to be thrown out with the bad Mayo.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The sad reality is times were different then and that’s for the entire NFL. The rule changes have allowed mediocre players to succeed and get overpaid, thus not having the same desire as players I grew up watching since the 90’s.

It’s a different era which is unfortunately ruining the NFL.

 

[JohnJH]

David Andrews would like a word.

David Andrews was/is a true leader. The problem is: 1) He was just essentially one man. 2) He wasn't able to play. 3) Even if he doesn't want to retire, his body might force him to. 4) We absolutely need a young and talented Center who can start Day 1 (and a solid young backup, as Center is an often overlooked position to an OL's success) even if Andrews can play one more season. Even if Strange turns out to be a solid starting caliber Center, we still need a fall-back plan at that position.

 

[n1997y]

David Andrews would like a word.

His being out was a bigger loss than just on the field.

Also, letting Judon go.

 

[n1997y]

D. Wise, peppers, dugger, j.jones, schooler, Bentley, Tavai, Drake, Henry...

Wise is at best a mixed bag regarding this.

 

[mike_usagisan]

His being out was a bigger loss than just on the field.

Also, letting Judon go.

I thought this year was going to be all about making determinations about who is the building blocks of this team and who isn't. I think we all have a better sense of who we need to build around and who let us down this year.

 

[n1997y]

D. Wise, peppers, dugger, j.jones, schooler, Bentley, Tavai, Drake, Henry...

Tavai?

As long as everybody knows their place perhaps. But that attitude won’t do anything to change culture. If anything he exemplifies the problem of selfish players thinking the world revolves around them.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Tavai?

As long as everybody knows their place perhaps. But that attitude won’t do anything to change culture. If anything he exemplifies the problem of selfish players thinking the world revolves around them.

Yeah, I was really disappointed by Tavai. He seemed like a lunchpail kind of guy, but now I'm not so sure.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This is more the reason I'd like Vrabel.. a guy who helped instil the culture, who walked and talked patriots culture. The culture needs a hard reset and Vrabel has been around the block. Ben Johnson absolutely a wonderful offensive mind. However what could he do for the culture that is a huge question that Highsmith needs to ask emphatically.

Big reason why the Bears are asking him to present how he would lead and establish a culture. It's an unknown.

 

[n1997y]

The sad reality is times were different then and that’s for the entire NFL. The rule changes have allowed mediocre players to succeed and get overpaid, thus not having the same desire as players I grew up watching since the 90’s.

It’s a different era which is unfortunately ruining the NFL.

It used to be that BB was good, no great, at selecting high character guys, at least enough to keep things on track. But those days are gone.

 

[Real fan 02]

Tavai?

As long as everybody knows their place perhaps. But that attitude won’t do anything to change culture. If anything he exemplifies the problem of selfish players thinking the world revolves around them.

Yes, look I get it the comments were stupid. He was just trying to speak up for his coach. He never has showed this before since he's been with the organization. I'm going to say he is still one of the leaders.

 

[jdlboot14]

Wow - that anonymous locker room statement sounds a lot like Henry. Because he started saying a lot about "looking in the mirror" during the season. And his demeanor certainly showed he had no faith their sideline could win games.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Big reason why the Bears are asking him to present how he would lead and establish a culture. It's an unknown.

Yeah, that's my biggest knock on him versus Vrabel. We know exactly what a Vrabel will do to this locker room.

 

[n1997y]

Yeah, I was really disappointed by Tavai. He seemed like a lunchpail kind of guy, but now I'm not so sure.

I think he still has potential. He was expressing support for his cohort, but needs to broaden his perspective. Hopefully having RKK emphasize that he is the team’s biggest fan taught Tavai an important lesson. Have to wonder if Robert was being intentional about that. Kraft is a fan, and he knows his place.

 

[Real fan 02]

Big reason why the Bears are asking him to present how he would lead and establish a culture. It's an unknown.

100%.. everyone would want a high octane offense. However the culture in Detroit was built first then the players were added as they went on. I'm trying to look at this from a team perspective. Drake and the offense weren't necessarily the problem.. it was the inability to not stop anything an offense does this season. As I've said the defense is mostly disappointing. Vrabel will have his imprint all over the defense.

 

[TheRainMaker]

A completely wasted year, but at least Bob pulled the plug now.

Anyone notice the first preseason game when they were holding up those giant flash cards on the sidelines to players? That scared the **** out of me.

 

[jdlboot14]

D. Wise, peppers, dugger, j.jones, schooler, Bentley, Tavai, Drake, Henry...

Cut Dugger and Tavai from that list.
I do believe Andrews, Peppers, J. Jones, Bentley, Henry are vets that have that solid leadership you need.
But, not sure Andrews or Jones will be back (or starting). Wise is definitely done, and has never been too relevant.
Maye will be a captain in '25 and sounds like players love him and respond well.
White & Gonzo may take a step in leadership on D. And Strange and Bourne on O.