Skins Portis, Samuels ridicule dog fighting as crime (merged)

[PF1996]

The NFL is a Mass Entertainment business. Mass Enternainment businesses carefully craft and then guard the public "personas" of their "stars" or "entertainers." There's a reason for this. Many of us might not like our entertainers too much if we knew their true characters or were privy to their private behavior.

In this thread, we see an example of what happens when the veneer is broken and the audience gets an insight into who the stars or entertainers "are," even if they haven't committed a crime or done anything reprehensible themselves.

In the cases of Portis and Samuels, based on their ill-informed and stunningly ignorant comments on dog fighting, we apparently have men with severely underdeveloped social consciences and senses of propriety. In other words, as much as we might be entertained by (or even enjoy) watching them perform on Sunday afternoon, as persons, they're not folks we would want to know or with whom we would choose to associate.

How much do we want or need to know about who our stars "really are?" Should each of us limit our viewing to those players whose character or world-view meets some self-generated standard of acceptance? If we did, my guess is that most of us would end up taking a lot of long walks on Sunday afternoons in the Fall and Winter.

There are, of course, many examples of players who are indeed examples of what we would like to be ourselves or, more importantly, of what we would like our kids to become. But, even here, the lines become gray quickly. I proudly hold Tom Brady up as a role model to my little boys, but I know more than one person whose personal sense of morality is upset that he has publicly fathered a child out of marriage while equally publicly "carrying on" with another woman. It doesn't bother me, but others draw different lines than I do. (Before anyone fires off a knee-jerk "How dare you compare Brady to Portis!" comment, please note that I am not doing that. But, it is a slippery slope when we start to moralize about the private lives or life-styles of our "stars," when they haven't broken any laws or directly harmed another person.)

Are Clinton Portis and his ilk people we should disdain or avoid, or are they just people we really don't want to know too much about? Our Sunday Afternoon version of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell?"

My own resolution of this dilemma is to draw the line at illegal behavior or at physical behavior that directly harms others (as an example of the latter, NFL Players who abuse their wives or smack women around outside of bars, as happened the other day in New York, don't get my support, even if they aren't "charged.") I don't want any team that earns my allegiance to be associated with people like that--as if I needed any more reasons to dislike the Jests.

Portis hasn't broken any laws, but I'd just rather that he keep to himself his opinions about those who have. I don't want to know what he thinks or who he is. Just shut up and play football! Back behind the image, Clinton!

I'll pick and choose players that I think are worthy of being models for my sons and hope that I haven't misjudged to the extent that I wake up one day to find them plastered all over the papers.

Perhaps you should focus on being a role model for your OWN offspring rather than selecting TOTAL STRANGERS to hold up as role models

Your intolerance is very characteristic of a conservative (are you one?). You don't want to know what Portis thinks because you disagree with his views so he should "keep them to himself" but I doubt you would be ranting the same had he given an opinion which coincided with your own.

I often find it difficult to believe that many of you who post on this forum are adults as you claim (some, unfortunately, also claim to be parents). This is because you display the intellectual maturity of children - i.e. a perception of the world where there are clear cut heroes and villans, with heroes being all good and villans being all bad and everything being as it appears to be. It's obvious to any mature person who has seen/heard an interview of Portis that the guy is a typical ghetto youth and his comments are quite in keeping with his character. Doesn't mean that those comments are necessarily incorrect but they should come as no surprise to any adult with a working understanding of reality. Judging from the responses on this thread - there aren't too many of those in here

 

[PF1996]

I don't see anything bad coming Portis or Samuel's way. They will issue their statements, get a brief talking to from someone in the skins organization, and they will still be laughing.

To some people it's not that big a deal. I've never seen a dog fight and don't want to. It's wrong and the people who do it should be taken care of, but it doesn't rate too high on my bad boy scale. There is so much other stuff going on that is worse. The worst thing for these guys is that the season hasn't started and there isn't much else to talk about.

Nothing bad should go "Portis or Samuel's way". I highly doubt the average American is aware that dogfighting is a felony in some states, even if they are aware it's illegal. However, laws prohibiting dogfighting in the U.S. are relatively recent so it's not surprising that some may think it's still legal. It's also still legal in Russia and Japan to name two countries, (guess the Japanese and Russians are "despicable azzholes" per the creator of this thread ). While I'm not opposed to laws against dogfighting, I do think it's somewhat silly that it's a felonious crime. Not quite as silly as all the piousness on display in this thread though.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Perhaps you should focus on being a role model for your OWN offspring rather than selecting TOTAL STRANGERS to hold up as role models

Your intolerance is very characteristic of a conservative (are you one?). You don't want to know what Portis thinks because you disagree with his views so he should "keep them to himself" but I doubt you would be ranting the same had he given an opinion which coincided with your own.

I often find it difficult to believe that many of you who post on this forum are adults as you claim (some, unfortunately, also claim to be parents). This is because you display the intellectual maturity of children - i.e. a perception of the world where there are clear cut heroes and villans, with heroes being all good and villans being all bad and everything being as it appears to be. It's obvious to any mature person who has seen/heard an interview of Portis that the guy is a typical ghetto youth and his comments are quite in keeping with his character. Doesn't mean that those comments are necessarily incorrect but they should come as no surprise to any adult with a working understanding of reality. Judging from the responses on this thread - there aren't too many of those in here

LOL This from the genius who thinks we'd be better off with Bulger. And who generally only shows up to tell others that their football or social opinions that differ with his are an obvious indication of inferior intellect.

 

[sebman2112]

Nothing bad should go "Portis or Samuel's way". I highly doubt the average American is aware that dogfighting is a felony in some states, even if they are aware it's illegal. However, laws prohibiting dogfighting in the U.S. are relatively recent so it's not surprising that some may think it's still legal. It's also still legal in Russia and Japan to name two countries, (guess the Japanese and Russians are "despicable azzholes" per the creator of this thread ). While I'm not opposed to laws against dogfighting, I do think it's somewhat silly that it's a felonious crime. Not quite as silly as all the piousness on display in this thread though.

It would seem pretty sad to me if the average American isn't aware dogfightings illegal. I highly doubt that statement is accurate though.

It doesn't matter if you're Russian, Japanese, American, German, Italian, Mexican, or of any other nationality. If you take part in Dog fights than in my book you're a piece if sh*t plain and simple. It's somewhat silly that dogfighting is a felony in some states? Are you kidding me? Have you ever witnessed one of these fights? It's not a pretty thing, and it's not just the fight itself that's rediculous. A lot of the owners starve and beat the dogs to make them mean, then force them to fight eachother in a battle that often times leaves at least one of the dogs lifeless, and the other close to death. (see I can do that too)

 

[FarScapeR]

Let's not get high off our own farts. Yes, dogfighting is wrong and cruel. Yes, Vick is stupid for having a dogfighting program in his own house. But seriously, this isn't OJ or Pacman type stuff. I'd hate to see some of the skeletons some of our more respected players have in their closets. From the perspective of an NFL player who's seen the kind of antics other players pull, dogfighting might not be in the upper echelon of crimes. I mean, c'mon, if you've ever kicked an animal in the ribs, you're just as guilty as Michael Vick. I know I have.

Portis' statement wasn't the smartest he could have made, but beneath the obvious stupidity of it, he has a point. There are worse things in this world we turn a blind eye to, and some of them are legal. Tomorrow, another NFL player is going to do something worse on a grander scale and the outrage is going to be disparate.

Case in point: McNair was arrested for a DUI. Granted it wasn't him, but someone else driving a car. If someone had gotten killed, would we still be talking about Michael Vick and his fightin' dogs? No. I ask you, which is worse? Posing a danger to human life, or cruelty to animals. If you selected the latter, congrats, you're an idiot.

 

[Fixit]

Nothing bad should go "Portis or Samuel's way". I highly doubt the average American is aware that dogfighting is a felony in some states, even if they are aware it's illegal. However, laws prohibiting dogfighting in the U.S. are relatively recent so it's not surprising that some may think it's still legal. It's also still legal in Russia and Japan to name two countries, (guess the Japanese and Russians are "despicable azzholes" per the creator of this thread ). While I'm not opposed to laws against dogfighting, I do think it's somewhat silly that it's a felonious crime. Not quite as silly as all the piousness on display in this thread though.

Let's be frank: the average American is a moron. As far as your "working understanding of reality" sermon, I'd prefer people having a strong reaction to a disgusting thing like a dog fighting ring then take the approach that, "Hey, the world's not black and white. Good people do bad things, and bad people do good things!" That POV leads to a lack of accountability which enables people (particularly athletes and celebrities) to act like criminals with little fear of repercussions.

Do something stupid? Pay the price. Say something stupid? Get raked over the coals.

But the argument that people who can see black and white when it exists can't see grey is idiotic.

 

[Fixit]

Let's not get high off our own farts. Yes, dogfighting is wrong and cruel. Yes, Vick is stupid for having a dogfighting program in his own house. But seriously, this isn't OJ or Pacman type stuff. I'd hate to see some of the skeletons some of our more respected players have in their closets. From the perspective of an NFL player who's seen the kind of antics other players pull, dogfighting might not be in the upper echelon of crimes. I mean, c'mon, if you've ever kicked an animal in the ribs, you're just as guilty as Michael Vick. I know I have.

Portis' statement wasn't the smartest he could have made, but beneath the obvious stupidity of it, he has a point. There are worse things in this world we turn a blind eye to, and some of them are legal. Tomorrow, another NFL player is going to do something worse on a grander scale and the outrage is going to be disparate.

Case in point: McNair was arrested for a DUI. Granted it wasn't him, but someone else driving a car. If someone had gotten killed, would we still be talking about Michael Vick and his fightin' dogs? No. I ask you, which is worse? Posing a danger to human life, or cruelty to animals. If you selected the latter, congrats, you're an idiot.

People can only judge what they've been made aware of. Now ask me what I think of Leonard Little.

 

[MDPATSFAN]

Nothing bad should go "Portis or Samuel's way". I highly doubt the average American is aware that dogfighting is a felony in some states, even if they are aware it's illegal. However, laws prohibiting dogfighting in the U.S. are relatively recent so it's not surprising that some may think it's still legal. It's also still legal in Russia and Japan to name two countries, (guess the Japanese and Russians are "despicable azzholes" per the creator of this thread ). While I'm not opposed to laws against dogfighting, I do think it's somewhat silly that it's a felonious crime. Not quite as silly as all the piousness on display in this thread though.

You and Portis are obviously outside of the mainstream on the issue. The US Senate just passed the Anti-Animal Fighting Bill 100-0. Apparently, Portis missed it during the the time he spends in Washington DC. There are 60 million dog owners in the US who are going to be repulsed if there is a dog fighting underground operating in the bowels of the NFL. It's bad business and the Commissioner isn't going allow business to suffer.

These guys need to remember they are representatives of the NFL 24-7. Going around making "counter -culture" public statements is against the NFl's best interest.

 

[mgcolby]

Perhaps you should focus on being a role model for your OWN offspring rather than selecting TOTAL STRANGERS to hold up as role models

Your intolerance is very characteristic of a conservative (are you one?). You don't want to know what Portis thinks because you disagree with his views so he should "keep them to himself" but I doubt you would be ranting the same had he given an opinion which coincided with your own.

I often find it difficult to believe that many of you who post on this forum are adults as you claim (some, unfortunately, also claim to be parents). This is because you display the intellectual maturity of children - i.e. a perception of the world where there are clear cut heroes and villans, with heroes being all good and villans being all bad and everything being as it appears to be. It's obvious to any mature person who has seen/heard an interview of Portis that the guy is a typical ghetto youth and his comments are quite in keeping with his character. Doesn't mean that those comments are necessarily incorrect but they should come as no surprise to any adult with a working understanding of reality. Judging from the responses on this thread - there aren't too many of those in here

For such an "intelligent" person you sure are a f*cking moron!

And Portis didn't grow up in the inner city ghetto he grew up in the backwoods of Mississippi.

One other thing did it ever occur to you that kids can look up to both parents and athletes? based on your comments probably not.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Perhaps you should focus on being a role model for your OWN offspring rather than selecting TOTAL STRANGERS to hold up as role models

Your intolerance is very characteristic of a conservative (are you one?). You don't want to know what Portis thinks because you disagree with his views so he should "keep them to himself" but I doubt you would be ranting the same had he given an opinion which coincided with your own.

I often find it difficult to believe that many of you who post on this forum are adults as you claim (some, unfortunately, also claim to be parents). This is because you display the intellectual maturity of children - i.e. a perception of the world where there are clear cut heroes and villans, with heroes being all good and villans being all bad and everything being as it appears to be. It's obvious to any mature person who has seen/heard an interview of Portis that the guy is a typical ghetto youth and his comments are quite in keeping with his character. Doesn't mean that those comments are necessarily incorrect but they should come as no surprise to any adult with a working understanding of reality. Judging from the responses on this thread - there aren't too many of those in here

You are free to disagree with what I wrote, but please don't condescend to me.

 

[patriotsox]

Re: WHat is up with players?

Because Vick's "Responsible"
His grounds, his relitives, his house
His responsibilities

Portis is just some dumb football player, un-educated, and in front of a microphone.
Notice after he lost his Offensive line in Denver hes goen downhill, man are guys like him overrated, overpaid, and in front of a microphone way too much.
Sounds like he goes to alot of dog fights possibly according to his quotes on Vick.

 

[FarScapeR]

Re: WHat is up with players?

Now, that's crossing a line. Obviously, Portis had to have some college-level education to get into the NFL. And attacking his on-field acheivements for his off-field comments is also uncalled for. The guy was asked a question and gave an answer he shouldn't have.

Also, how long before players begin to chafe at Goodell's short leash?

Finally, there's no hyphen in "uneducated". I'm jus' sayin'.

 

[PF1996]

It would seem pretty sad to me if the average American isn't aware dogfightings illegal. I highly doubt that statement is accurate though.

Do learn to read properly. I said that it's probable that the average American does not know that dogfighting is a felony NOT that they do not know that it's illegal.

It doesn't matter if you're Russian, Japanese, American, German, Italian, Mexican, or of any other nationality. If you take part in Dog fights than in my book you're a piece if sh*t plain and simple.

Another illustration of the child-like mentality I mentioned earlier.

It's somewhat silly that dogfighting is a felony in some states? Are you kidding me? Have you ever witnessed one of these fights? It's not a pretty thing, and it's not just the fight itself that's rediculous. A lot of the owners starve and beat the dogs to make them mean, then force them to fight eachother in a battle that often times leaves at least one of the dogs lifeless, and the other close to death. (see I can do that too)

When compared to the fact that such crimes as stalking and battery are misdemeanors, it does seem silly. However, having read some arguments for why dogfighting is/should be a felony (rational arguments, not immature rants), it does seem reasonable that it be a felonious crime.

Let's be frank: the average American is a moron. As far as your "working understanding of reality" sermon, I'd prefer people having a strong reaction to a disgusting thing like a dog fighting ring then take the approach that, "Hey, the world's not black and white. Good people do bad things, and bad people do good things!" That POV leads to a lack of accountability which enables people (particularly athletes and celebrities) to act like criminals with little fear of repercussions.

Do something stupid? Pay the price. Say something stupid? Get raked over the coals.

But the argument that people who can see black and white when it exists can't see grey is idiotic.

Another person who needs to learn to read COMPREHENSIVELY. The phrase "working understanding of reality" was used in regards to my point about anyone being surprised by Clinton's comments, assuming said person had ever seen/heard Clinton speak. It had nothing to do with a "reaction to dogfighting". This is also true about my comments about perceiving the world as black/white rather than understanding that someone being a talented athlete doesn't mean that person then must have a good character or have values similar to your own. It was in reference to the stupidity of one poster's comments that he uses athletes as role models. Actually a intellectually mature view of the world allows accountability because people do not presume that a "good person" is incapable of committing a crime and also they do not then assign lesser consequences based on the "goodness of the person" but rather assign consequences on the basis of the crime committed.

 

[Fixit]

Another person who needs to learn to read COMPREHENSIVELY. The phrase "working understanding of reality" was used in regards to my point about anyone being surprised by Clinton's comments, assuming said person had ever seen/heard Clinton speak. It had nothing to do with a "reaction to dogfighting". This is also true about my comments about perceiving the world as black/white rather than understanding that someone being a talented athlete doesn't mean that person then must have a good character or have values similar to your own. It was in reference to the stupidity of one poster's comments that he uses athletes as role models. Actually a intellectually mature view of the world allows accountability because people do not presume that a "good person" is incapable of committing a crime and also they do not then assign lesser consequences based on the "goodness of the person" but rather assign consequences on the basis of the crime committed.

Yeah, that's what you said. If that was, in fact, what you wanted to say, then your ability to write clearly needs some tuning up. Try more of that and less time spent on words and phrases like "Do learn..." and "...felonious crime..." in an attempt to make yourself sound like you're sitting in your office lined with Doctorates smoking expensive Turkish tobacco in your finest pipe and we should all lend greater credence to your loquacious orations.

When everyone else "misunderstands" you, you misspoke, period.

The bottom line is that you attacked a poster for thinking Portis's comments were out of line, condescended to him by implying that he's not being a role model to his children, and then, in a twist, accused him of "intolerance." That's funny.