Samuel: The Pats 'don't care' about players

[ausbacker]

What's funny is that Patriots fans used to brag about the Patriots doing precisely what Samuel is talking about, yet somehow the Patriots don't do it now.

I've read the article. I've listened to Samuel talk about the Patriots since he left. It's well known that the Patriots assign value to positions and aren't willing to go outside of that range to compensate a player if they don't believe they are worth it. As business practice, what is wrong with that? How is that not treating your player well.. because you don't pay them what they want?

If the Patriots didn't treat their players well, they wouldn't supply them with outstanding facilities and injury care etc.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm just wondering why the opinion of a player on another team, with an obvious axe to grind is terribly relevant.

Did the Globe reporter seek him out for an interview? I understand the part in the article about "the closest parallel", but this just seems like stirring the pot at the expense of the Pats, pure and simple.

I suppose if you interview a player that signed an extension you would get a different rsponse, no?

If you wonder about that try the latest from Karen Guregian. She's basically trying to browbeat Wilfork into holding out to prove he's a man...

I've never seen a sports media market quite like Boston's. If it weren't for the success of the worfully mismanaged teams they cover winning all those rings over the last decade, most of these geniuses would be unemployed now.

 

[Deus Irae]

I've read the article. I've listened to Samuel talk about the Patriots since he left. It's well known that the Patriots assign value to positions and aren't willing to go outside of that range to compensate a player if they don't believe they are worth it. As business practice, what is wrong with that? How is that not treating your player well.. because you don't pay them what they want?

If the Patriots didn't treat their players well, they wouldn't supply them with outstanding facilities and injury care etc.

You're just playing vantage point games when you talk to facilities and injury care. That's fine, but it's not the entire picture, as you know because you yourself point to the salary issue.

 

[ausbacker]

You're just playing vantage point games when you talk to facilities and injury care. That's fine, but it's not the entire picture, as you know because you yourself point to the salary issue.

I have, but the salary issue is amongst many issues in which the Patriots can demonstrate they "value" or "care" about their players. The players only seem to bring up the money and nothing else.

 

[Scouse Patriot]

It's whats best described as a proffesional relationship, not that "they don't care". This is were crying arse Asante who never shuts the f*ck up about the Patriots since he left always seems to get confused.

Patriots have their principles and run things how they run things. If Asante needs a cuddle every five minutes from Belichick then thats says more about him than it does about one of the elite and most decorated franchises and this decade. If he thinks money = respect then again, it speaks volumes.

I really like Vince but if he wants to go then see you later. Asante Samuel would do well to respect the team and coach who made him.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Samuel got OWNED by Miles Austin and the Cowboys receivers in the Eagles last 2 games!

I mean the Eagles were a hair away from nabbing that #2 seed(meaning they would have hosted the Vikings in the divisional game at their freezing The Linc, and they would have beaten New Orleans in the NFCCG) - but with all the beating McNabb took from the fans and media, Samuel was actually the bigger goat in that game than McNabb. Another big named player coming up VERY small in TWO big games.

 

[Deus Irae]

I have, but the salary issue is amongst many issues in which the Patriots can demonstrate they "value" or "care" about their players. The players only seem to bring up the money and nothing else.

But that's for good reason, really, don't you admit?. Money is the only thing that's 'permanent', especially in a league that doesn't have guaranteed contracts.

 

[ausbacker]

But that's for good reason, really, don't you admit?. Money is the only thing that's 'permanent', especially in a league that doesn't have guaranteed contracts.

In America I guess so. In Australia, elite level team sports players are widely chastised if they make unreasonable contract demands. More often than not, the stars although very well compensated accept marginally smaller contracts to keep a successful team together in the hope of a prolonged run of success.

Whilst I agree with you that in terms of the player deriving their worth in dollar value, the organization can equally demonstrate a player's value by the manner in which they service their employees.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Seymour, Samuel, Law, Johnson. It seems like alot of players that leave us wernt very happy with the way they were treated. It doesnt help our reputation when Free agency comes around.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

What's funny is that Patriots fans used to brag about the Patriots doing precisely what Samuel is talking about, yet somehow the Patriots don't do it now.

i think though there is a difference between being cost-conscious and unreasonable. sometimes the pats are a bit unreasonable. i mean wasn't the whole point of dumping seymour to get more $$ for wilfork? what's taking them so long?

 

[PittPatriot]

In fairness to Samuel, his tattoo says “Get Rich To This" which is the name of a song from a rap group called Goodie Mob. Samuel does say that he got the tattoo in college because he liked the song.

Wonderful. So he likes rap songs that glorify money. Like everyone else, he loves money...we just don't get tattoos that rhyme about it. For that reason, I choose not to like Asante.

 

[mgteich]

No, the point of dumping Seymour was not to get to get more $$ for Seymour. Last I checked the raiders didn't forward any cash as part of the deal. Seymour could have been been kept for the season and allowed to go into free agency on March 5th. The patriots would have the same amount of $$ availablew for Wilfork or anyone else. Seymour was traded because Belichick judged that the value of a 2011 oakland first rounder will be more than the value of Seymour's services in 2009.

i think though there is a difference between being cost-conscious and unreasonable. sometimes the pats are a bit unreasonable. i mean wasn't the whole point of dumping seymour to get more $$ for wilfork? what's taking them so long?

 

[PittPatriot]

It's not that the Pats "don't care" about players, they just don't care about players that only give a rip about themselves.

Remember after SB 39 when some people were calling for Belichick's name to be added to the Lombardi Trophy? In times like this Belichick really does remind me of Lombardi. He had even less tolerance for this type of thing then Belichick does.

And why is AS still whining about this after two years anyway? Like some others have mentioned, I think it's more than a little bit of sour grapes. He has to convince himself he's better off since leaving NE, so he keeps saying stuff like this.

I think BB and Vince Lombardi belong in the same sentence when it comes to winning...but not in the same text book when it comes to "dealing with people." Lombardi's prime was near 45years before BB's - so tolerance for things has to change. Lombardi was considered for the Vice Presidency by President Nixon (briefly). He was a cultural icon and beloved human being. His ability to mold men and deal with people is legendary. What part of that reminds you of BB?

 

[PittPatriot]

I've read the article. I've listened to Samuel talk about the Patriots since he left. It's well known that the Patriots assign value to positions and aren't willing to go outside of that range to compensate a player if they don't believe they are worth it. As business practice, what is wrong with that? How is that not treating your player well.. because you don't pay them what they want?

If the Patriots didn't treat their players well, they wouldn't supply them with outstanding facilities and injury care etc.

I wonder how Ted Johnson feels about the last sentence of your post.
I don't it's about not paying them what they want...it's what they deserve. Wilfork deserves to get paid like a top 3 NT in the NFL. He may want more, but give him a deal that he deserves, he'll be happy.

 

[ausbacker]

I wonder how Ted Johnson feels about the last sentence of your post.
I don't it's about not paying them what they want...it's what they deserve. Wilfork deserves to get paid like a top 3 NT in the NFL. He may want more, but give him a deal that he deserves, he'll be happy.

Surprise surprise Ted Johnson is brought up. I was waiting for that comment in all honesty. His situation was/is less than impressive, but is that the norm I ask you?

As for Wilfork, this is the point I am making to you. He is a rare talent and I would like to see him remain as a Patriot, however does his production, especially being a 2 down player demand 3 down contract status? Is there value in money spent for the Patriots?

If the Patriots and Wilfork agree that the price set is fair and what he is worth then he signs. If the Patriots and Wilfork don't agree 2 things happen. He is franchised or he walks. It's simple.

I find it amazing that the way a player is valued is by the super-size or type of his contract. Quite frankly it's ridiculous IMO.

 

[Deus Irae]

Surprise surprise Ted Johnson is brought up. I was waiting for that comment in all honesty. His situation was/is less than impressive, but is that the norm I ask you?

As for Wilfork, this is the point I am making to you. He is a rare talent and I would like to see him remain as a Patriot, however does his production, especially being a 2 down player demand 3 down contract status? Is there value in money spent for the Patriots?

If the Patriots and Wilfork agree that the price set is fair and what he is worth then he signs. If the Patriots and Wilfork don't agree 2 things happen. He is franchised or he walks. It's simple.

I find it amazing that the way a player is valued is by the super-size or type of his contract. Quite frankly it's ridiculous IMO.

The 2 down vs 3 down thing is used by to justify stiffing the player of his cash. Is Wilfork a 2 down player in an attacking 4-3? Hell, no.

In a 3-4, the NT is the player who handles the point of the attack, particularly against the run. If that's not worth top money, no player on defense is worth top money.

 

[ausbacker]

The 2 down vs 3 down thing is used by to justify stiffing the player of his cash. Is Wilfork a 2 down player in an attacking 4-3? Hell, no.

In a 3-4, the NT is the player who handles the point of the attack, particularly against the run. If that's not worth top money, no player on defense is worth top money.

I know what Wilfork's role on the line is. I also would like Wilfork kept at the Patriots. Determining what's considered fair value by both parties and reaching a compromise is where the Patriots and Wilfork currently sit.

If the Patriots don't agree with Wilfork, it doesn't mean they don't "care" about him though does it.

 

[Rob0729]

Wonderful. So he likes rap songs that glorify money. Like everyone else, he loves money...we just don't get tattoos that rhyme about it. For that reason, I choose not to like Asante.

I checked out the lyrics and I don't think "get rich to this" is literal. I think more a slang saying. I could be wrong.

 

[Deus Irae]

I know what Wilfork's role on the line is. I also would like Wilfork kept at the Patriots. Determining what's considered fair value by both parties and reaching a compromise is where the Patriots and Wilfork currently sit.

If the Patriots don't agree with Wilfork, it doesn't mean they don't "care" about him though does it.

Not in my mind, and not in yours. We're irrelevant, though. All that matters is what's in the minds of those involved in the sport at that level. If players like Samuel convince others that the Patriots don't care, then, for all intents and purposes, the Patriots don't care. The way the team has treated Milloy, Johnson, Law, Thomas, Seymour, etc... may be perceived in a certain way by non-players and a different way by players and others involved at that level of the sport. There was an agent, some time back, with a hostile quote towards the Patriots as well, if my memory serves. This stuff can influence other players if it's put out there enough. Just look at the myth of "get paid" on Samuel's tattoo.

 

[ausbacker]

Not in my mind, and not in yours. We're irrelevant, though. All that matters is what's in the minds of those involved in the sport at that level. If players like Samuel convince others that the Patriots don't care, then, for all intents and purposes, the Patriots don't care. The way the team has treated Milloy, Johnson, Law, Thomas, Seymour, etc... may be perceived in a certain way by non-players and a different way by players and others involved at that level of the sport. There was an agent, some time back, with a hostile quote towards the Patriots as well, if my memory serves. This stuff can influence other players if it's put out there enough. Just look at the myth of "get paid" on Samuel's tattoo.

It's always the vocal minority that create whatever fissures there are and whilst we/I don't always agree with how the Patriots conduct their business, as you've rightfully pointed out nobody cares what we think.