Ron Jaworski ranks Brady at 3

[thenepatsrule]

I remember back a few years ago Brady fans use to argue that stats were worthless, and that winning was what mattered, which ment Brady > P. Manning. But now the same people saying that say Eli sucks because of his stats. But he wins! More Superbowls than Rodgers, Brees, and his brother.

When People used to say winning is what matters and Brady > P Manning it was because even though BOTH OF THEM HAD EXCELLENT regular seasons PATS usually had more success in post season when compared to the Colts.

You cannot even bring ELI into the conversation coz his teams never had gr8 Regular seasons . His defense carries him on their Backs into the post season and in the Playoffs he prays that his WRs can come up with a miracle catch every time.............

Do you even know how many times the giants have missed the playoffs under ELI? and how many times the colts/pats have missed the playoffs under P Manning/Brady

 

[lurker1965]

I'm pissed off at Jaws. He should've ranked Brady #29 so he'd be more pissed off.

Brees? Dome effect.

I looked at all games of Brees, Peyton, Rodgers and Brady combined.*

*minus Peyton's rookie year, games with snaps by backups where season is locked up, and Brees' San Diego era.


Now for Dome 182 games vs. 303 outdoors in any weather

Outdoors yards per game is 237.5 and only 42.9 yards less than the Dome yards per game of 280.4
Outdoor Completion percentage is 63.1% and only 3.8 lower than Dome com% of 66.9%
Outdoor TDs per game is 1.63 and only 0.44 lower than Dome TDs per game of 2.07

For those that are not sure, there is sarcasm in my voice. 42.9 yards is kind of a lot.

And for any idiots who think I massaged the data there is this weird bit. Outdoor Interception per game is 0.79 Confusingly it is less likely to be an interception outdoors as opposed to the dome's 0.85 interceptions per game. That 0.06 (or 6% - however you want to write it) does not fit.

Maybe the answer lies in the greater number of attempts in a dome. Dome att/game =34.9 and outdoors att/game = 32.8 Maybe with perfect passing conditions OCs and QBs are more inclined to make more, and riskier throws, maybe?

Oh, if anyone thinks this is a defense of Marino's record, well it sort of is Brees had 11 regular season games in domes in 2011. (8 at home, 1 in Atlanta, 1 in St. Louis, and 1 in Minnesota.) For those that want math, 42.9 dome yards times 11 is 471.9. Subtract that from Brees's total of 5476 and you get 5,004.1

Now for the bad news Marino fans. Tom Brady had 5,235 yards and no dome games in 2011.

Yes, it has been a loooong off season.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

I love the passion, and any fan should feel free to scream in disappointment. There's nothing rational about being a fan, nor need there be.

But give Jaws a break. He backs his work up with examples and he obviously spends a lot of time getting into the dirtiest details. Jaws is fun to watch and has earned respect by not spouting a bunch of floating BS. He also made it very clear that the slimmest of margins existed between 1,2, and TB at 3. Hey, crab about Brady being ranked at 3#, I sneered at the TV when I saw it. But don't bum on Jaws, he's what's right about TV journalism.

 

[patsinthesnow]

How can Eli be in a class below when he's outdueled what most fans here would say is the #1 QB twice in the biggest game of them all (and a 15-1 Rodgers' team a few weeks before that)? One time when he had no chance, and another on more even terms.

I remember back a few years ago Brady fans use to argue that stats were worthless, and that winning was what mattered, which ment Brady > P. Manning. But now the same people saying that say Eli sucks because of his stats. But he wins! More Superbowls than Rodgers, Brees, and his brother.

Deus makes a very good point and is precisely why Eli isn't in Brady or Rodgers class yet IMO. You can't keep missing the playoffs and or going 8-8 or 9-7 and be in the group of top QBs. I respect the hell out of Eli for beating BB and Brady twice to earn two Superbowls, but he can't go 8-8 again by chucking up 25 INTs in the regular season. The top guys should have their teams in the playoffs year in and year out.

 

[upstater1]

How can Eli be in a class below when he's outdueled what most fans here would say is the #1 QB twice in the biggest game of them all (and a 15-1 Rodgers' team a few weeks before that)? One time when he had no chance, and another on more even terms.

I remember back a few years ago Brady fans use to argue that stats were worthless, and that winning was what mattered, which ment Brady > P. Manning. But now the same people saying that say Eli sucks because of his stats. But he wins! More Superbowls than Rodgers, Brees, and his brother.

You need to compare Brady's stats from those years to Eli's current stats. You'd be in for a rude awakening. Back when Brady was called a dunk-dunker, a plodder, all Vinatieri and BB's D, Brady was setting Super Bowl recorsd for passing and was at the top of the league in YPA and YPC.

His numbers were behind Manning's, but his dome numbers were HIGHER than Manning's, and Manning's outside numbers were lower than Brady's. In other words, domes help the passing game, and Manning had a lot of dome games.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

How can Eli be in a class below when he's outdueled what most fans here would say is the #1 QB twice in the biggest game of them all (and a 15-1 Rodgers' team a few weeks before that)? One time when he had no chance, and another on more even terms.

I remember back a few years ago Brady fans use to argue that stats were worthless, and that winning was what mattered, which ment Brady > P. Manning. But now the same people saying that say Eli sucks because of his stats. But he wins! More Superbowls than Rodgers, Brees, and his brother.

Nobody said stats don't matter... they said that stats are misleading. Manning in the early 2000s had a team of all-pros like Wayne, Harrison, James, and Clark. Brady has a bunch of nobodys around him.

You realize that Brady went 14-2 in consecutive years in 03 and 04 and that he averages 12.5 wins per season. You realize that Eli has never even won in one season as many games as Brady averages, right? So the fact that "he wins" is a bit misleading. He has won some of the biggest games on the biggest stages, yes. But let me know when he puts up the consistency year and year out to carry his team on his back and make them a contender. Thus far, he's a two-time SB Champ with two of the worst teams in SB history when you count the regular season (mainly due to his QB play.) Some would say that's good, some would say that's lucky.

By the end of Eli's career, all will be balanced out and you'll realize that he got his two SBs but will never, ever be in the class of the greats like his brother, Brady, and Rodgers. The "Eli Manning" quarterback will forever be the QB who gets hot at the right time, not the best QB.

 

[stcjones]

When I first heard this on BSPN, I was kind of pissed. But the more I think about it....Jaws is right here. Brees outperformed Brady last year overall and Rodgers is not the BEST QB in the league hard to dispute that. If Tom and Wes had hooked up on that play that shall never be spoken about again....Odds are that Brady would STILL be ranked #1 now.

But Brady also now has the "badge" by the mediots of not being able to get it done when all the money is on the line, or when it counts (AKA winning SB's or playoff games). Great regular season QB.....but can't close the deal. Hopefully he shuts them all up this year, or at least one more time before he hangs up the cleats. Either way to be top 3 in most polls/opinions is pretty darned impressive at this stage of his career.....

I am not sure if this has been posted yet.


Its so surprising that people rank Rodgers and Brees( both great QBs no doubt) ahead of Brady because they had two of the best statistical seasons ever........ what ppl need to understand is that the league is getting increasingly "PASS HAPPY" and we will see records broken each and every year.. I am pretty sure JaMarcus Russell would throw for 5k yards if he was still playing lol.....

 

[stcjones]

But you have to give it to Eli when the category of "getting it done when it counts"
or being THE most or one of the top two CLUTCH QBs in the league at this point....Right? I don't like the guy.....but he (and his team) certainly find ways to win when IT ALL matters......F'ing GINTS!

Deus makes a very good point and is precisely why Eli isn't in Brady or Rodgers class yet IMO. You can't keep missing the playoffs and or going 8-8 or 9-7 and be in the group of top QBs. I respect the hell out of Eli for beating BB and Brady twice to earn two Superbowls, but he can't go 8-8 again by chucking up 25 INTs in the regular season. The top guys should have their teams in the playoffs year in and year out.

 

[twnickels2014]

Agreed 100%, except for one point. He made the pass. It wasn't caught.

Yeah, Brady made the pass, and both Welker and Gronkowski weren't able to haul them in. I can't believe Skip Bayless and Rob Parker were saying that Brady lost the game for the Patriots. They're so aggravating to listen to, especially since pretty much every former NFL PLAYER or COACH has agreed that Welker dropped it, and many have added that Brady was trying to keep the ball away from the safety (Welker even said said that in the post-game). Mangini arguably broke the play down the best

 

[BradyFTW!]

How can Eli be in a class below when he's outdueled what most fans here would say is the #1 QB twice in the biggest game of them all (and a 15-1 Rodgers' team a few weeks before that)? One time when he had no chance, and another on more even terms.

I remember back a few years ago Brady fans use to argue that stats were worthless, and that winning was what mattered, which ment Brady > P. Manning. But now the same people saying that say Eli sucks because of his stats. But he wins! More Superbowls than Rodgers, Brees, and his brother.

Saying that Eli isn't anywhere near the QB that Brady is does not equal saying that he sucks. The two statements are miles apart.

 

[Salva135]

Saying that Eli isn't anywhere near the QB that Brady is does not equal saying that he sucks. The two statements are miles apart.

He's not, but he deserves a ton of credit. He dismantled a 15-1 Packers team at Lambeau. Very impressive.

Oh, and he kinda won a couple of other games after that. Or something.

 

[Avenger]

He's not, but he deserves a ton of credit. He dismantled a 15-1 Packers team at Lambeau. Very impressive.

Oh, and he kinda won a couple of other games after that. Or something.

You know who also dismantled the Packers? Kyle Orton. Green Bay did not have a very good defense.

 

[Avenger]

Lets look at a few stat lines:

30-37 passes, 81.1% completions, 353 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 113.2 passer rating

Looks like a pretty good QB is passing the ball right? Wrong. That is Dan Orlovsky's stat line playing against the Patriots.

20-39 passes, 51.3% completions, 250 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 77.9 passer rating
30-40 passes, 75.0% completions, 296 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 103.8 passer rating

Those are the stat lines from Eli Manning against the Patriots. Eli was outplayed by Dan Orlovsky, which is pretty sad.

 

[jah]

Lets look at a few stat lines:

30-37 passes, 81.1% completions, 353 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 113.2 passer rating

Looks like a pretty good QB is passing the ball right? Wrong. That is Dan Orlovsky's stat line playing against the Patriots.

20-39 passes, 51.3% completions, 250 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 77.9 passer rating
30-40 passes, 75.0% completions, 296 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 103.8 passer rating

Those are the stat lines from Eli Manning against the Patriots. Eli was outplayed by Dan Orlovsky, which is pretty sad.

Orlovsky vs Patriots in 2011: 0-1
Eli vs Patriots in 2011: 2-0

 

[BradyFTW!]

He's not, but he deserves a ton of credit. He dismantled a 15-1 Packers team at Lambeau. Very impressive.

Oh, and he kinda won a couple of other games after that. Or something.

Oh yeah, he's definitely a really good QB. In general, any quarterback who wins multiple SBs is doing something right. He's no Tom Brady, but that's hardly an insult. Basically the same as saying "he isn't one of the top five quarterbacks of all time".

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

I rank Ron Jaworski at number 17 among ESPN's top "analysts."

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

He's not, but he deserves a ton of credit. He dismantled a 15-1 Packers team at Lambeau. Very impressive.

Oh, and he kinda won a couple of other games after that. Or something.

I'd say Eli is a good quarterback with moments of greatness.

Where as Brady is a great quarterack with moments of averageness (and usually there's some unerlying issue like injury, but it all gets factored in the end...winning).

 

[PatsWSB47]

Manning came through in his Superbowls. It pains me to no end to have to say that.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Manning came through in his Superbowls. It pains me to no end to have to say that.

I don't think it's Manning so to say. But somehow Coughlin gets his team to take it to that next level once they hit the playoffs. I'd like to know how the man does it (obvoiusly alot of factors including locker room/character of the players as well).

I've only got enough room in my life to follow one team, but I'd be tempted to learn what makes them tick.