Reactions to “The Dynasty”

[lancerman]

I'd like to remind everyone that Deflategate was not about air pressure or footballs. It was about the league having absolute power over the players due to the CBA giving the commissioner authority to do so. Kraft caved because it would have been bad for the league to have all the league's dirty laundry come out in court. I get as Pats fans, we want Kraft to stand up for Tom and for them to be righteous in their pursuit for justice. That was never going to happen. It's not about righteousness. It's about billions of dollars, and keeping the cash flowing. Kraft got told, metaphorically, to shut up and get in line. Brady wanted to clear his name, but the league wasn't about to do that, and the kangaroo court that his appeal was showed that as proof. Eventually, he wore down and gave in. Took his suspension and then made them all pay on the field by winning again in spite of it all.

Every person who's had their TPMS light come on in their car when it's cold out knows that air pressure changes in cold weather. Common freakin' sense.

The league is corrupt.

Kraft caved because he had no real legal recourse to fight the league. Brady did as he was a union member under the CBA and the union did have an interest in limiting unchecked power from the league office when it came to disciplinary matters. Kraft never even said he agreed with the league's findings. This has been discussed ad nausem but the general legal consensus was that Kradt had zero ground to challenge the league's ruling from his position as owner because owners cede a lot of power to the collective league to become owners to begin with.

The difference between Kraft and Bill is that Kraft said he thought they would be exonerated, they weren't, he said he disagreed with the entire process but would begrudingly take the punishment. Bill started out trying to cover his own ass and telling everyone to look at the QB.

Even Brady gave up at the end.

 

[signbabybrady]

Yup the first press conference he basically came out and said "uhhhh I don't know anything, you have to talk to Tom about the balls". From that moment on, deflategate became a Tom Brady centric story and people largely ignored Belichick. Yeah he did do the ideal gas law conference a bit after, but by that point the damage was done and the target was on Tom's back. He was absolutely hungout to dry after Bill's initial press conference. The whole media took it as a greenlight to zero in on Tom.

It was never a Bill thing the balls were Tom's I don't think he was doing anything nefarious every QB gets their balls ready differently and they shoe horned a controversy from this fact and because Tom wouldn't give Roger his phone. End of story FEA if you see it differently.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Yup the first press conference he basically came out and said "uhhhh I don't know anything, you have to talk to Tom about the balls". From that moment on, deflategate became a Tom Brady centric story and people largely ignored Belichick. Yeah he did do the ideal gas law conference a bit after, but by that point the damage was done and the target was on Tom's back. He was absolutely hungout to dry after Bill's initial press conference. The whole media took it as a greenlight to zero in on Tom.

Yeah, the media narrative was totally against Brady after that.

But I thought Bill coming out in that second press conference and saying that they did all the testing and all that was a clear case of Bill defending his QB. I get there’s a Bill vs. Brady thing around here, but Bill was under no obligation to do that and he got grilled about Spygate (again) for his trouble.

There’s plenty to be pissed at Bill about but him not defending Brady during Deflategate isn’t one of them.

 

[Bella*chick]

Yeah that Mona Lisa Vito press conference was defending Brady. The first “throwing under the bus” conference Bill seemed totally caught off guard. But he recovered. That was left out because it didn’t support the BB throws Brady under the bus narrative. Which was absolutely the narrative at the time.

 

[ahmed]

Seen first 2 episodes so far and I love it. Not sure if people were complaining about 1st two about Bill or not but did not see anything biased against him.

I became a football and Pats fan in 2004 so while I know the history and seen a lot of hilights of the first couple years, it was good to relive and see some things for 1st time. I have not watched Man in the Arena (I will at some point) or any of the 3 games to glory so some of the footage was new to me.

A few things I found interesting.

1) Pioli saying that they did not have a good QB after deciding to cut Kosar. That was probably the most shocking thing in the first 2 episodes IMO. How do you do that with his status without a plan? This reminded of pushing Brady out without a plan.

2) Bill had supreme confidence to keep going with Brady after Drew came back. Lesser coaches would have caved into the pressure and made the much easier choice of going with Drew. Even if it did not work out he could have just said Drew was not healthy. That took some real balls especially after getting fired and literally had his safety at risk last time he did that.

3) Pioli mimicking Ernie Adams was so funny.

4) First time I think I heard Ernie Adams and Jonathan Kraft speak. Hearing how Jonathan sounds does not instill me with confidence for the future. He has none of his father's charisma, confidence , passion and vision. Adams seemed like he has a good sense of humor which was surprising given everything I read about him over the years.

5) Bill was so different back then. He seemed much more approachable and responsive with media.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I became a football and Pats fan in 2004

You missed some good years pre BB/Brady. The Parcells/Jets vs Pats was one of the best/entertaining rivalries in the NFL in the late 90's. The entire AFC East was a gauntlet. 2001 was a Cinderella season and the Pats flew right under the radar. The Steelers and Rams were all the talk.

2002 was a roller coaster of a year. The Pats were on Super Bowl hangover. It showed up after their 3-0 start. Offenses started relentlessly running the ball and they didn't have an answer. Brady had his growing pains, but led some comebacks. They were 14 point favorites at home to clinch the division on SNF against the Jets they previously blew out early in the season, but got their asses kicked. It just wasn't their year.

2003 was awesome. Doubts crept in after the Milloy release and getting blown out in Buffalo week 1. But that was short lived. That defense was the Pats best of all time by far. By the time you turned in, the Pats were going from the NFL darlings to the most hated. Returned the blowout shutout to Buffalo week 17.

2) Bill had supreme confidence to keep going with Brady after Drew came back. Lesser coaches would have caved into the pressure and made the much easier choice of going with Drew. Even if it did not work out he could have just said Drew was not healthy. That took some real balls especially after getting fired and literally had his safety at risk last time he did that.

I was a Drew guy back then. Deep down I knew Tom should've kept the job because Tom's record as a starter, but I still wanted to see Drew to be that guy.

5) Bill was so different back then. He seemed much more approachable and responsive with media.

Keep watching. Michael Holley comments on this in episode 3 or 4.

 

[luvbrain]

They really didn't want to criticize the NFL on deflategate eh? They never mentioned how it was a normal cold weather phenomenon just like flat tire in the winter. Nor did they mention how the NFL didn't have a case to prove their point in court, and how they lost the first round, and decided to appeal and focused more on what the NFL commissioner's authority was under the current bargaining agreement. Which basically means that he can do whatever he wants without having to justify it.

 

[1960Pats]

Bill never threw Brady under the bus. Bill stood up there for fifteen minutes talking about the reports. The Documentary didn't cover it all but Bill introduced the science and even had his Mona Lisa Vito joke.

He did also have to defend himself too as at the time there was no wells report or any other details showing this was the equipment guys and Brady so people were ready to put it all on Bill. So he said he never once in his career ever asked anyone about pressure and that Tom would have to speak to how he likes to prepare his footballs and he wasn't talking about deflating just talking about how every QB likes their balls prepared to their own specs.

I think Bill at that time was being lied to by the NYFL just like everyone else.

 

[PF_SU]

1) Pioli saying that they did not have a good QB after deciding to cut Kosar. That was probably the most shocking thing in the first 2 episodes IMO. How do you do that with his status without a plan? This reminded of pushing Brady out without a plan.

That's not what Pioli said. The reason Belichick cut Kosar was because he wanted to designate Testaverde as his starter. Problem for him was, Kosar was an icon and Testaverde - by that stage clearly superior to Kosar - had a negative reputation from being a bust in Tampa.

 

[1960Pats]

Kraft caved because he had no real legal recourse to fight the league. Brady did as he was a union member under the CBA and the union did have an interest in limiting unchecked power from the league office when it came to disciplinary matters. Kraft never even said he agreed with the league's findings. This has been discussed ad nausem but the general legal consensus was that Kradt had zero ground to challenge the league's ruling from his position as owner because owners cede a lot of power to the collective league to become owners to begin with.

The difference between Kraft and Bill is that Kraft said he thought they would be exonerated, they weren't, he said he disagreed with the entire process but would begrudingly take the punishment. Bill started out trying to cover his own ass and telling everyone to look at the QB.

Even Brady gave up at the end.

Any owner can sue the league. The new owner of the Rams was allowed to move from St Louis because some owners were worried that he'd sue them. In the case of Kraft I think he gets played regularly.

Bill was management and Brady was not. I think that's why players get punished more severely.

Maybe Brady gave up because he heard the lies in court and knew his chances were slim. That and his mother fighting cancer probably entered into his decision.

 

[ahmed]

That's not what Pioli said. The reason Belichick cut Kosar was because he wanted to designate Testaverde as his starter. Problem for him was, Kosar was an icon and Testaverde - by that stage clearly superior to Kosar - had a negative reputation from being a bust in Tampa.

I love your confidence in making stuff up when I posted a few minutes after watching the episodes. I went back and listened to it again just for you.

Pioli's quote word for word from minute 36 in episode 1: "we knew it was the right decision but we didn't have a great solution to the problem. We didn't have a legitimate top end NFL starter and Bill caught hell for it".

 

[venecol]

Best part of Ep. 8 was watching Goodell get booed by the crowd. That never gets old.

Pretty surprised at how much Bill fawned over Jimmy after that 1st win in the locker room. This is 2016 not 2001. What a contrast with his reaction in the locker room after winning the AFCCG, where he sounded like a total ****.

 

[upstater1]

1) Pioli saying that they did not have a good QB after deciding to cut Kosar. That was probably the most shocking thing in the first 2 episodes IMO. How do you do that with his status without a plan? This reminded of pushing Brady out without a plan.

?? They had Vinny Testaverde. As soon as they cut Kosar and went with Vinny, they went 9-3 and made the playoffs and even beat Parcells and the Patriots in the playoffs.

A few years later Testaverde had a 12-1 record with the Jets under Parcells; that was the year Keyshawn cried from the podium when Vinny got hurt and said, "That's my QB!"

One reason older Patriot fans from the 80s and 90s appreciate Belichick a lot is that we saw what he did with the Giants when they took down historic offenses by completely shutting them down. Those Giants were al about defense. We lost to Belichick's Browns in '94, but then after going 6-10 in '95, Belichick joined the Patriots and turned the defense around instantly, and we went to the Super Bowl. When he left for the Jets, he and Parcells turned a team that was the laughing stock of the NFL with Rich Kotite and he brought them to the AFCCG. Anywhere Belichick went, he turned around the defense and brought defense-dominated teams to the playoffs: Giants, Browns, Patriots, Jets, Patriots in '01. The only black mark was his '95 year in Cleveland but the team unraveled when the fans turned on it after the owner announced they were moving to Baltimore, and the fans still hated him for cutting Kosar.

 

[upstater1]

I love your confidence in making stuff up when I posted a few minutes after watching the episodes. I went back and listened to it again just for you.

Pioli's quote word for word from minute 36 in episode 1: "we knew it was the right decision but we didn't have a great solution to the problem. We didn't have a legitimate top end NFL starter and Bill caught hell for it".

While I get what you're saying, and like a lot of the Dynasty, people are saying stuff that isn't true likely because it was so so long ago and they can't remember, you can't conclude Belichick didn't have a plan, as you stated in your original post.

They went 9-3 with Testaverde and even made the playoffs.

They obviously had a plan. If only ownership had allowed that move earlier, you wonder if the previous season would've been more successful, they went 7-9.

They probably would've made the playoffs if they had replaced Kosar that year.

I understand the directors of the Dynasty are trying to create a narrative (about Belichick not having a plan, to bookend what happened when Brady left in '20). But the fact is, Belichick did have a plan in '94 (no matter how Dynasty's directors frame it) and he also had a plan in '14 (but the directors frame it another way, as though the drafting of Garoppolo was divisive). In reality, it was just Belichick making a plan.

The amazing thing about all this criticism of planning to replace QBs is that few people talk about all the other teams that replace iconic QBs and move on, from the Colts with Manning and Luck, the Packers with Rodgers and Love or even Favre and Rodgers, or the 49ers with Steve Young and Montana). When Garoppolo was drafted, Tom Brady was older than Montana when Montana retired and was out of the league. Heck, the 49ers brought on Steve Young back when Montana was 31 years old!!!

 

[sb1]

So the previews for ep 9 and 10 say BB stopped talking to Brady that’s how bad their relationship was and he wanted him gone. Got his wish and well… it didn’t work out too well for Bill.

 

[sb1]

Belichick joined the Patriots and turned the defense around instantly, and we went to the Super Bowl.

IIRC BB was not the DC of the Patriots in 96. That was a Tuna team and Groh was DC.

 

[upstater1]

IIRC BB was not the DC of the Patriots in 96. That was a Tuna team and Groh was DC.

Let's be real. Come'on! The whole season even the sports writers were discussing the Groh demotion (but not in title). It was Belichick's defense.

All you need to do is look at who the DC was when the whole staff moved to the Jets the following year. Parcells chose Belichick, not Groh.

 

[h0c2000]

So the previews for ep 9 and 10 say BB stopped talking to Brady that’s how bad their relationship was and he wanted him gone. Got his wish and well… it didn’t work out too well for Bill.

BB got a parting gift of 25M. Overall, it worked out just fine for BB financially when you add in another 100M for the last 4 years.

 

[sb1]

BB got a parting gift of 25M. Overall, it worked out just fine for BB financially when you add in another 100M for the last 4 years.

That is true. He is all set off the field.

 

[venecol]

I understand the directors of the Dynasty are trying to create a narrative (about Belichick not having a plan, to bookend what happened when Brady left in '20). But the fact is, Belichick did have a plan in '94 (no matter how Dynasty's directors frame it) and he also had a plan in '14 (but the directors frame it another way, as though the drafting of Garoppolo was divisive). In reality, it was just Belichick making a plan.

It wasn't the Directors. It was Pioli, who was there! Your lame attempts to change what all of us are watching is useless.