RCB : Eric Rowe or Jason McCourty?

[Nunchucks]

I don't think Rowe really got exposed in the Super Bowl.

He was the victim of a few near-perfect throws and catches by Foles and Jeffrey. Tip your cap and move on. Rowe, for the most part, was in decent position and played his technique fairly well (to my layman's eye). Sometimes the other team is just better.

Rowe could have done more to knock the receiver off his route.

 

[patriot1136]

As others have mentioned, with the Pats, it comes down to matchups. At least it is a good problem to have to have two capable corners like that. Not to mention the other guys in that group. Should be an interesting training camp with young guys like J. Jones, Cy Jones, Dawson, Crossen, etc.

 

[patfanken]

In the evolution of the passing game in football, trying to pigeonhole DB's into specific "position boxes" is over. We have reached the era of "positionless secondaries, where 5 and 6 DB's on the field will be commonplace, and that's why the Pats have loaded up on DB's this season.

So the answer to the original OP question is "who knows". Whatever the personnel assignments that are going to be played will be determined by the individual skill set of the DB, the skill set of the WR's they will be playing against, and the scheme of the offense.

For example, IIRC, JMcCourty has excelled as a zone CB, while Rowe has traditionally fared better against bigger WR's in man. This will be a factor in determining who will play and when.

So when the Pats play the Steelers, one of the Jones boys would likely get the Butler role of shadowing ABrown, while McCourty would be the trap CB, and Rowe covering one of the bigger Steelers WR. Different teams would require different defensive personnel packages and the Pats, I think, will be uniquely positioned to create the matchups that can defend against this new era passing game, or at least defend it as well as it can be expected when a 60% completion rate has become the "Mendoza line" for QB's and 65%+ is the expectation.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

This is like asking who would you rather have sex with Rosie O'Donnell or Charlie Sheen?

 

[holyredeemer]

This is like asking who would you rather have sex with Rosie O'Donnell or Charlie Sheen?

Definitely Charlie Sheen. Dude’s a Warlock with Tigerblood who has seen some ****.

 

[mgteich]

We post as if having 5 corners that can play is a problem. NOT. IMHO, there is no reason not keep all five. We would then have 8 position DB's. That isn't too many in this passing league.

Gilmore
Dawson
J Jones
One of McCourty/Rowe

As locks

It’s possible that both McCourty/Rowe make it, which would provide depth and versatility at both the outside and slot coverage positions.

 

[mgteich]

TWO NITPICKS

1) 5 or 6 DB's WILL BE commonplace?

We've played the nickel for at least 20 years. Having 5 DB's has been our base for the last few.

Six DB's has also been commonplace for years. We used to call the 6th DB, the dime back.

Sure, this is more of a passing league, so more DB's is indeed more common. And the quality of pass coverage and pressure by our front 7 (now 6) has led the patriots to use safeties more. Obviously, this also happens because we have one of the very best 3 safety sets in the NFL.

2) ONE of the Jones boys will be shadowing ABrown? It will be a major surprise if that player is C Jones.

3) Are you really suggesting sitting Gilmore against the steelers in favor of ONE of the Jones boys, Rowe and McCourty?

QUOTE="patfanken, post: 5314907, member: 3697"]In the evolution of the passing game in football, trying to pigeonhole DB's into specific "position boxes" is over. We have reached the era of "positionless secondaries, where 5 and 6 DB's on the field will be commonplace, and that's why the Pats have loaded up on DB's this season.

So the answer to the original OP question is "who knows". Whatever the personnel assignments that are going to be played will be determined by the individual skill set of the DB, the skill set of the WR's they will be playing against, and the scheme of the offense.

For example, IIRC, JMcCourty has excelled as a zone CB, while Rowe has traditionally fared better against bigger WR's in man. This will be a factor in determining who will play and when.

So when the Pats play the Steelers, one of the Jones boys would likely get the Butler role of shadowing ABrown, while McCourty would be the trap CB, and Rowe covering one of the bigger Steelers WR. Different teams would require different defensive personnel packages and the Pats, I think, will be uniquely positioned to create the matchups that can defend against this new era passing game, or at least defend it as well as it can be expected when a 60% completion rate has become the "Mendoza line" for QB's and 65%+ is the expectation.[/QUOTE]

 

[BelichickFan]

I have no idea what Ken is talking about but neither Jones will be covering Antonio Brown. Cyrus won't be on the team and Jonathan only will be for his ST (and that's not guaranteed with the addition of Dawson and possibly Crossen. I think Jonathan will make the team but there's a better chance he's on another team than lining up across from Antonio Brown (barring injury to others).

 

[maineman209]

I have no idea what Ken is talking about but neither Jones will be covering Antonio Brown. Cyrus won't be on the team and Jonathan only will be for his ST (and that's not guaranteed with the addition of Dawson and possibly Crossen. I think Jonathan will make the team but there's a better chance he's on another team than lining up across from Antonio Brown (barring injury to others).

2017 Cornerback comparison:

D-snaps played ...
Butler = 1037
Gilmore = 816
Jones = 439
Rowe = 259

Targeted on ...
Jones = 11.6% of snaps played
Butler = 8.9%
Gilmore = 8.3%
Rowe = 7.7%

Completion % allowed ...
Jones = 49.0%
Butler = 51.1%
Gilmore = 54.4%
Rowe = 70%

YPC Allowed ...
Jones = 13.2
Butler = 13.7
Gilmore = 14.2
Rowe = 16.2

TDs allowed/tgt ...
Jones = 3.9%
Gilmore = 4.4%
Rowe = 5.0%
Butler = 7.6%

INT + PBU/tgt ...
Jones = 19.6%
Butler = 16.3%
Gilmore = 13.2%
Rowe = 10.0%

Flags/tgt ...
Rowe = 0
Jones = 3.9%
Butler = 4.3%
Gilmore = 7.4%

Tackles/D-snap played ...
Jones = 8.2%
Gilmore = 6.1%
Butler = 5.8%
Rowe = 5.4%

 

[BelichickFan]

2017 Cornerback comparison:

Jones was so good they drafted Dawson to play in the slot.

 

[maineman209]

Jones was so good they drafted Dawson to play in the slot.

Fact:
- The Pats drafted Dawson.
... We don't yet know for certain whether Dawson be good enough to start in 2018, or what role he'll play. That's speculation at this point.

Fact:
- Jones played very well in 2017.
... Not just statistically. Even BB singled him out to praise his effectiveness and technique ("That's exactly how we teach it"). So, we certainly don't know that Jones will be banished to ST duty.

For that matter, we don't really even know if Rowe will still be with the team for the start of the season.

 

[Joey007]

Definitely Charlie Sheen. Dude’s a Warlock with Tigerblood who has seen some ****.

Does he have that dragon energy that Kanye has been ranting and raving about?

 

[BelichickFan]

Fact:
- The Pats drafted Dawson.
... We don't yet know for certain whether Dawson be good enough to start in 2018, or what role he'll play. That's speculation at this point.

Fact:
- Jones played very well in 2017.
... Not just statistically. Even BB singled him out to praise his effectiveness and technique ("That's exactly how we teach it"). So, we certainly don't know that Jones will be banished to ST duty.

For that matter, we don't really even know if Rowe will still be with the team for the start of the season.

I hope Jones ends up being a good player but stats are very questionable for CB and the Patriots' top defensive draft pick plays the same position as Jones - regardless of Rowe, I doubt we'll see Jones or Dawson on the outside a lot. Dawson may not be good but he plays the same position as Jones for the most part. If they thought the SB would have been fixed by Jones being healthy then they probably don't draft Dawson.

Aside from a standard slot CB, my point was that Jones had better not be covering Antonio Brown like Ken suggested and I hope to God he's not.

 

[mgteich]

It is fine to have 2 corners who are primarily slot corners, but can play outside if necessary. Jones was injured. That injury made clear the need for a 2nd slot receiver.

Gilmore and McCourty outside will be enough absent injuries. We can call Rowe our #5. We could call him the #2/#3 outside corner based on game plan. In any case, having one backup outside corner is NOT too many.

For me, having 5 position corners is just right, although I'm Ok with a 6th position corner if we don't have a 4th position safety.

I hope Jones ends up being a good player but stats are very questionable for CB and the Patriots' top defensive draft pick plays the same position as Jones - regardless of Rowe, I doubt we'll see Jones or Dawson on the outside a lot. Dawson may not be good but he plays the same position as Jones for the most part. If they thought the SB would have been fixed by Jones being healthy then they probably don't draft Dawson.

Aside from a standard slot CB, my point was that Jones had better not be covering Antonio Brown like Ken suggested and I hope to God he's not.

 

[DaBruinz]

Gilmore
Dawson
J Jones
One of McCourty/Rowe

As locks

It’s possible that both McCourty/Rowe make it, which would provide depth and versatility at both the outside and slot coverage positions.

Jonathan Jones is unlikely to be ready by TC.. I figure he get's pupped.. Also, figure Dawson to replace Richards, IMHO, but with more versatility..

 

[DaBruinz]

Jones was so good they drafted Dawson to play in the slot.

Really? YOU know that for 100% certainty, do you? Please explain how you know this.

Dawson is much more likely to be a Richards replacement and be moved to Safety than he is a Jonathan Jones replacement, though having a 2nd slot corner isn't a bad thing considering what happened in the SB when they didn't have one to adequately step in for Jones.

Did you even stop to think about the fact that Jones isn't likely to be ready to start the season because of his injury? So, having Dawson or Crossen there to begin with and jones being worked back in would be a good thing?

People like yourself who always jump to conclusions about players without having even a modicum of the facts just make fools of yourselves. The only FACT you have is that the Patriots drafted Duke Dawson. You've got nothing else.

 

[supafly]

Definitely Charlie Sheen. Dude’s a Warlock with Tigerblood who has seen some ****.

Yeah, but once you factor in the HIV, you end up circling back to Rosie. After all, AC/DC did write a song about her.

 

[supafly]

That's your 5. They might even carry 6 CBs with one being that CB/FS hybrid type and send Richards packing

I only really have 4, considering the possibility of what you bring up. If another PS or unsigned player can compete with the loser of the McCourty/Rowe job, fine.

In the meantime, slot: Jones, Dawson, a bit of Rowe

Outside: Gilmore, McCourty, Rowe, a bit of Dawson/Jones

Seems to cover the bases

 

[maineman209]

I hope Jones ends up being a good player but stats are very questionable for CB and the Patriots' top defensive draft pick plays the same position as Jones - regardless of Rowe, I doubt we'll see Jones or Dawson on the outside a lot. Dawson may not be good but he plays the same position as Jones for the most part. If they thought the SB would have been fixed by Jones being healthy then they probably don't draft Dawson.

Aside from a standard slot CB, my point was that Jones had better not be covering Antonio Brown like Ken suggested and I hope to God he's not.

According to BB himself, Jones already is a good player. I don't know of a higher authority on the subject to appeal to. Jones' stats merely confirm BB's opinion.

And, why wouldn't Jones be able to cover Brown? Brown is only 5'10". Jones is only 1" shorter. Jones is also faster (4.33/40) and at least as agile. Jones is also almost six years younger (Brown turns 30 in July).

Jones and Dawson do play the same position - cornerback. What their respective roles will be in the 2018 coverage schemes (that vary from week-to-week) has yet to be determined - and won't be determined be either of us.

AFAIK, there is no "standard slot CB", just as there is no "standard slot receiver". There are certainly media-driven stereotypes for both, but there's way more diversity IRL.

What might or might not have happened in the SB with JJ healthy is almost certainly far less a factor in the decision to draft another good CB than the fact that the contracts of Rowe, J-Mac, and even JJ expire at the end of this season (although JJ is an RFA, not UFA). Aside from Dawson and the UDFAs, the only cornerbacks under contract past the end of this season are Gilmore and Cy Jones. I'd say that's more than enough reason to draft a CB.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Jason McCourty should win this job easily in camp.

I like Rowe's upside but JMac is just a proven starter in the NFL.